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Thread: Yes! Rand to vote against emergency declaration

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    And the funny thing is i have helped more Libertarians win office then a keyboard warrior like you. YAL and winatthedoor i played a huge part. While you sit with a bag of cheetos in your mothers basement. Props to you!
    Bravo! Ooha! For you!

    You must be so special Jon4liberty.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Oh, well, that makes it all right then... Carry on.

    Hey, welcome to the New and "Improved" Ron Paul Revolution, where principles and CONstitutional limitations are all well and good until they get in the way of desired outcomes. Then they and anyone demanding adherence to them can be thrown under the bus in the name of expediency and being "realistic."

    Quit being sch a doe-eyed idealst and chasing your impractical, unrealistic utopian vision of liberty.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And this allows him to allocate what funds...?
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    The defense of the invasion I think
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Yes.
    Oh. Well. Clears that right up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  5. #94
    Has the political atmosphere in this nation ever been so polarized since the Civil War? Honest question.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Well, since Trump is the Commander in Chief of the military, doesn't he have have some say in what the military does with that money?
    Glad you brought up the obvious. Legal scholars from the left and right have said he is within the laws set for him to do this.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Maybe. Maybe not. I guess the courts will decide.
    So if a court says something that makes it true?



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    So if a court says something that makes it true?
    No. It makes it legal or not within the powers of government.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Well, since Trump is the Commander in Chief of the military, doesn't he have have some say in what the military does with that money?
    Yes, but only within the limits that Congress places on it in the way they appropriate it by law.

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    I am sorry but Rand is wrong here. If he wanted to do something about it, he and others in Congress need to change the National Emergencies Act of 1976. Congress abdicated this power to the President to declare a National Emergency.

    Taking this court will only drag it out that much longer, but when it gets to court, a Judge is going to be reluctant to create a definition and interpret a law that Congress, itself, didn't bother to do in 1976.
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    Facts
    Quote Originally Posted by TomtheTinker View Post
    If the liberty movement is compromised of guys with opinions similar to yours, then there is no liberty movement.

    fAxTs
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Bravo! Ooha! For you!

    You must be so special Jon4liberty.
    Facepalm.....i was defending you. Was directed a tinke tomi. Im reminded daily why the liberty movement is but dust in the wind.

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    No. It makes it legal or not within the powers of government.
    I am surprised to see you say that.

    The oath Rand took was not to uphold what a court claims the Constitution says, even if they claim if falsely, but to uphold the Constitution.

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I am surprised to see you say that.
    Im not sure why you would be surprised.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Oh. Well. Clears that right up.
    The invasion from the border, is a clear and present danger to the citizens. Now we can argue all day, but it is one chink in the amour to stop the democrats from allowing the flooding of our nation.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    The invasion from the border, is a clear and present danger to the citizens. Now we can argue all day, but it is one chink in the amour to stop the democrats from allowing the flooding of our nation.
    I agree. The rise in illegal immigration and the surge of socialism in American politics are related hand in hand. There is an emergency as I see it.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Im not sure why you would be surprised.
    Because most of us around here do not support the view that the court has the authority to legislate from the bench.



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Because most of us around here do not support the view that the court has the authority to legislate from the bench.
    So you are saying that in the real world, the juridical system has not been legislating from the bench?
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  19. #106
    I will state again...

    If we were engaged in actual war declared by Congress of the people, major typhoons shredding across the land, a meteor that would impact the continent... a true "emergency"...

    But since this president, or republicans (certainly when they had control), has not called for an End to Incentives before or during this so-called "crisis", to me this is nothing but setting precedent and preparing to line the pockets of the Police-State-Industrial-Complex.

    They get enough of my money, I am sick of my Rights and Freedoms continuing to be taken in the name of "government help me save me take more money from me".
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution names the President as the Commander-in-Chief of the naval and land forces of the United States.[[1]]U.S. CONST. art. II, § 2.[[1]]{{1}} It is generally agreed that the Commander-in-Chief role gives the President power to utilize the armed forces to repel attacks against the United States.
    Even using the War Power Act, the President would need Congressional approval to use the troops for more than 60 days. But that's so they'd have a chance to authorize it. Congress has already had a chance to authorize this action and they didn't do it. Giving the Executive the additional authority to declare an emergency to over-ride Congressional authority basically gives the Executive a blank check to do whatever they want, regardless of any Congressional oversight.

    I mean, you're using circular logic to get something that you think you want. But there'll be nothing to stop the next guy. So, you really shouldn't complain about it - you wanted it that way.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    So you are saying that in the real world, the juridical system has not been legislating from the bench?
    No. I am saying that the court claiming that something is constitutional doesn't make it so.

    Rand did not take an oath to uphold court rulings, he took an oath to uphold the Constitution.

    It is a fact that Trump's national emergency declaration is unconstitutional. Even if a court ruled otherwise it wouldn't change that fact.

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    I am sorry but Rand is wrong here. If he wanted to do something about it, he and others in Congress need to change the National Emergencies Act of 1976. Congress abdicated this power to the President to declare a National Emergency.

    Taking this court will only drag it out that much longer, but when it gets to court, a Judge is going to be reluctant to create a definition and interpret a law that Congress, itself, didn't bother to do in 1976.
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    Facts
    Quote Originally Posted by TomtheTinker View Post
    If the liberty movement is compromised of guys with opinions similar to yours, then there is no liberty movement.

    fAxTs
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    I agree. The rise in illegal immigration and the surge of socialism in American politics are related hand in hand. There is an emergency as I see it.
    But but but if we just teach free markets and democracy South America, Africa, Asia would be a free market liberty loving paradise!....and Chicago too! /s

    The caravan of mostly military aged males is a clear danger to our citizens and needs dealt with. Time is running out. People need to wake up and live in THE REAL WORLD. If we arent pragmatic an Austrian Utopia will never exist. Our founders would be ashamed of how liberals, libertines, commies etc have taken this nation down

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    I agree. The rise in illegal immigration and the surge of socialism in American politics are related hand in hand. There is an emergency as I see it.
    Indeed there is an emergency--if they keep on coming in, it won't be long before we are in the situation that Venezuela is in or France. The democrats are making sure the illegals have everything they need, off the backs of the citizens. Of course that is the agenda. This should be clear to many people, unfortunately hatred blinds many.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    Our founders would be ashamed of how liberals, libertines, commies etc have taken this nation down
    Our founders did not believe that the Constitution they ratified empowered the federal government to restrict immigration.

    They were on Ron's, Rand's, and Amash's side on this question, not Trump's.

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    No. I am saying that the court claiming that something is constitutional doesn't make it so.

    Rand did not take an oath to uphold court rulings, he took an oath to uphold the Constitution.
    Which is why I respect him and say he is the best statesman in Washington.

    Unfortunately, in this political climate, with the weaponizing of the media and alphabet agencies against Conservative principles and traditional values, playing by the rules went out the window a long time ago. It’s honorable to defend the life of a victim who has a gun pointed to their head with a sheet of paper and pointing to laws, but sometimes you need to bring a bigger gun in order save their life.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Indeed there is an emergency--if they keep on coming in, it won't be long before we are in the situation that Venezuela is in or France. The democrats are making sure the illegals have everything they need, off the backs of the citizens. Of course that is the agenda. This should be clear to many people, unfortunately hatred blinds many.
    You're right that I don't see the emergency that you do.

    But even if I did, the Constitution would still say, "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law."

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    Unfortunately, in this political climate, with the weaponizing of the media and alphabet agencies against Conservative principles and traditional values, playing by the rules went out the window a long time ago. It’s honorable to defend the life of a victim who has a gun pointed to their head with a sheet of paper and pointing to laws, but sometimes you need to bring a bigger gun in order save their life.
    The justification of tyrants since the beginning of time.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by jon4liberty View Post
    The caravan of mostly military aged males is a clear danger to our citizens and needs dealt with. Time is running out. People need to wake up and live in THE REAL WORLD. If we arent pragmatic an Austrian Utopia will never exist. Our founders would be ashamed of how liberals, libertines, commies etc have taken this nation down
    The road to tyranny has, to date, been paved with scraps of the constitution which have been torn out in the name of expediency.

    There is no reason at all to assume they'll start paving that road with something else.

    The U.S. system used to be the best on earth. Poking holes in the constitution has not improved it. Not even once. Poking more holes in the constitution to see if that improves it is the definition of insanity.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 03-04-2019 at 11:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  30. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The justification of tyrants since the beginning of time.
    Yes. It has also led to the protection and survival of the nation in history.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  31. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Even using the War Power Act, the President would need Congressional approval to use the troops for more than 60 days. But that's so they'd have a chance to authorize it. Congress has already had a chance to authorize this action and they didn't do it. Giving the Executive the additional authority to declare an emergency to over-ride Congressional authority basically gives the Executive a blank check to do whatever they want, regardless of any Congressional oversight.

    I mean, you're using circular logic to get something that you think you want. But there'll be nothing to stop the next guy. So, you really shouldn't complain about it - you wanted it that way.
    He doesn't have to use the War Powers Act he is using the National Emergency Act. But the part of the Constitution I posted was to answer another question. So if you put what I said in context then you would see that it is not what I said, it is what Congress has allowed and abdicated. These are the loopholes President Trump is using to circumvent the nasty democrats.

    If people in congress want to stop it, then they need to do so. You projecting things at me as though I have the power to do these things. I am just point out why I think Rand is wrong in this regard.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  32. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The road to tyranny has, to date, been paved with scraps of the constitution which have been torn out in the name of expediency.

    There is no reason at all to assume they'll start paving that road with something else.
    Yes. Politics is a beast.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  33. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    He doesn't have to use the War Powers Act he is using the National Emergency Act. But the part of the Constitution I posted was to answer another question. So if you put what I said in context then you would see that it is not what I said, it is what Congress has allowed and abdicated. These are the loopholes President Trump is using to circumvent the nasty democrats.

    If people in congress want to stop it, then they need to do so. You projecting things at me as though I have the power to do these things. I am just point out why I think Rand is wrong in this regard.
    Congress does not have the authority to delegate to the president what the Constitution requires to be done by Congress. That would take a constitutional amendment.

    Moreover, you keep claiming that Congress passed a law giving the president this authority, but you have not been able to find anywhere written in the law that this is the case.

    Why do you keep claiming this, as if you know it to be true, when you actually are not aware of any evidence to support your claim?

  34. #120
    Donnay go play with mike adams maybe he can help your crappy website.

    TER, swordsmyth and i got this



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