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Thread: 5 Things Bernie Sanders doesn't Want You To Know About Socialism

  1. #1

    5 Things Bernie Sanders doesn't Want You To Know About Socialism

    Yeah, I know... FOX News of all $#@!ing places! Either that or Fox just doesnt like Bernie...

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/5-th...bout-socialism

    Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., announced the official launch of his 2020 presidential campaign on Tuesday, and within just 24 hours, he managed to raise a whopping $6 million. Although Sanders joins a crowded field of contenders, many analysts say the 77-year-old Sanders is the frontrunner to be the Democrats’ choice to challenge President Trump.

    Sanders, who nearly defeated Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination in 2016, is a self-described socialist who has been peddling destructive collectivist policies for decades—everything from single-payer health care to punitive taxes and radical climate change agreements. Make no mistake about it, Sanders, who honeymooned in Soviet Russia, wants to fundamentally alter American society and impose a socialist agenda on tens of millions of Americans who want the federal government to stay out of their homes and businesses.

    Sanders is undoubtedly hoping that his candidacy will benefit from the recent rise of socialism in the United States. According to a February Fox News poll, one-quarter of U.S. voters have a favorable view of socialism, and the number is even higher for millennials. Similarly, a 2018 Gallup survey found 57 percent of Democrats support socialism, while only 47 percent said they have a favorable view of capitalism.

    Although the popularity of socialism has clearly increased in recent years, it’s largely because most Americans don’t understand what socialism is or its long history of failure around the world. It’s up to those of us who support individual liberty and free markets to tell our friends, neighbors, children, and grandchildren the truth about the dangers of socialism. Below are five facts to help you spread the word.

    1. Socialism has never worked.

    One of the most damning evidences against socialism is that despite the fact numerous countries around the world have attempted to create societies in which many, most, or all industries are collectively owned and managed, those countries have never prospered.

    The ultimate goal of socialism, according to Karl Marx and his followers, is to create a society in which all people share wealth equally. But whenever socialism has been attempted, it has always resulted in tyranny.

    The reason for this is simple: In order for a society to collectively share wealth, a ruling class first has to be established that will take wealth away from those who have it. That necessitates giving significant power to a centralized authority, the government. Once government has this power, it’s reluctant to give it up, resulting in the sort of oppression we see today in Cuba, North Korea, and Venezuela.

    2. Tens of millions have died at the hands of socialist and communist parties.

    Because regimes attempting to create socialist utopias inevitably turn to violence, socialism and communism have caused more death and destruction than any other political or religious ideology in the past century.

    In research I conducted, relying on numerous scholarly studies, of 12 countries led by socialist or communist parties over the past 100 years—including parties in China, Cuba, North Korea, and the Soviet Union—I found there have been more than 167 million people who have been killed, murdered, or exiled in the pursuit of socialism. It would take roughly 56,000 terrorist events as deadly as the tragic attack by radical Islamic terrorists on September 11, 2001, to match the misery caused by socialists and communists.

    ...
    Full article at link.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  3. #2
    Sanders supporter be like "Sanders isn't that kind of Socialist."
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Yeah, I know... FOX News of all $#@!ing places! Either that or Fox just doesnt like Bernie...

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/5-th...bout-socialism



    Full article at link.
    1. Socialism has never worked.

    One of the most damning evidences against socialism is that despite the fact numerous countries around the world have attempted to create societies in which many, most, or all industries are collectively owned and managed, those countries have never prospered.
    What a load of horse shyte. First of all, the article starts with the strawman argument that Bernie Sanders wants to a full blown socialism like you see in Cuba and former USSR. He doesn't want that kind of socialism and he has said this 100 thousand times. He wants a welfare state funded by taxes collected from taxing the rich and corporations. This sort of socialism is also bad but it is much harder to debate since the people criticizing him already accept a lesser portion of the system he is calling for.

    2. Tens of millions have died at the hands of socialist and communist parties.

    Because regimes attempting to create socialist utopias inevitably turn to violence, socialism and communism have caused more death and destruction than any other political or religious ideology in the past century.
    And how many people have died from the wars started and participated by so called capitalist nations? The nations and peoples they have destroyed cannot be rivaled by the nations and people destroyed by full blown socialist/communist countries. At no point in my life have I ever been worried that a socialist country will come and attack me. I would bet that your chances of being invaded and killed by a so called capitalist nation is about 100x more than that of a socialist nation. And yet the idiots writing this article want me to be afraid of socialism.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    He wants a welfare state funded by taxes collected from taxing the rich and corporations. This sort of socialism is also bad but it is much harder to debate since the people criticizing him already accept a lesser portion of the system he is calling for.
    His form of socialism is not "A kinder gentler form of socialism" Our society will be split further by the haves and have nots. That's all he's doing, playing class politics. For a microcosm of what will happen look at what happened when Amazon left NYC. That sort of thing will happen on a much grander scale. Companies and people with the means to do so will leave in droves. States that want to suceed will position themselves with low tax rates and business friendly. Also, as point (1) in the article made you would need bigger government to "enforce" those new tax rules. Which means more regulations and more ambiguous qualifiers set by TPTB.
    Where is John Galt?


    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

  6. #5
    jumbo shrimp
    working vacation
    negative income
    civil war
    american socialism

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    His form of socialism is not "A kinder gentler form of socialism" Our society will be split further by the haves and have nots. That's all he's doing, playing class politics. For a microcosm of what will happen look at what happened when Amazon left NYC. That sort of thing will happen on a much grander scale. Companies and people with the means to do so will leave in droves. States that want to suceed will position themselves with low tax rates and business friendly. Also, as point (1) in the article made you would need bigger government to "enforce" those new tax rules. Which means more regulations and more ambiguous qualifiers set by TPTB.
    I dunno if I would call it kinder but the kind of socialism he advocates is a lesser for of socialism where the capitalist portion of the economy is left intact and just taxed to the gills in order to finance a bigger welfare state. Yes, it would likely involve higher taxes and more regulation but not more govt ownership of corporations. What happened with amazon is more of a statist problem than a socialism problem. Statists tax and regulate and they did not want to give amazon any tax breaks, so they bailed.

    I just hate it when people strawman their opponents in order to win an argument. This is what they did here and its why I am calling em out just saying this for this people who still think I am in luv with socialism and/or communism.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Sanders supporter be like "Sanders isn't that kind of Socialist."
    Uh , yeah he really is that kind . He would still take every gun if he could and then there will be no weapons to revolt with. He will also take whatever else he would like and give it to whom he would like exactly like all the others .
    Do something Danke

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I dunno if I would call it kinder but the kind of socialism he advocates is a lesser for of socialism where the capitalist portion of the economy is left intact and just taxed to the gills in order to finance a bigger welfare state. Yes, it would likely involve higher taxes and more regulation but not more govt ownership of corporations. What happened with amazon is more of a statist problem than a socialism problem. Statists tax and regulate and they did not want to give amazon any tax breaks, so they bailed.

    I just hate it when people strawman their opponents in order to win an argument. This is what they did here and its why I am calling em out just saying this for this people who still think I am in luv with socialism and/or communism.
    So, Bernie is completely disingenuous about the kind of socialism he wants. Yes, he wants a bigger welfare state funded by taxes, but he doesn't stop there. The Nordic countries have a fairly free market that funds their programs, but Bernie isn't advocating for that side of the ledger. He wants INCREASED market regulation - not less, like they have. He wants STRICTER trade rules and protectionist policies - not the low trade barriers of those nations. He wants the union membership rates seen in those countries, but he doesn't want fewer employment laws - he wants more!

    So, you'd end up with all the costs of a socialist system without the funding mechanism to pay for them. And THAT, is exactly the recipe for the socialist disasters that have occurred throughout history.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So, Bernie is completely disingenuous about the kind of socialism he wants. Yes, he wants a bigger welfare state funded by taxes, but he doesn't stop there. The Nordic countries have a fairly free market that funds their programs, but Bernie isn't advocating for that side of the ledger. He wants INCREASED market regulation - not less, like they have. He wants STRICTER trade rules and protectionist policies - not the low trade barriers of those nations. He wants the union membership rates seen in those countries, but he doesn't want fewer employment laws - he wants more!

    So, you'd end up with all the costs of a socialist system without the funding mechanism to pay for them. And THAT, is exactly the recipe for the socialist disasters that have occurred throughout history.
    And Hugo Chavez wanted to smash the capitalist system and yet he wasn't able to do it. Bernie has said that he wanted a scandinavian form of economic system with high taxes, private properties and a big welfare state. I believe that he will try and achieve this goal and make adjustment when he faces resistance. I can try and argue this harder point and win but there is no need to strawman him by saying he supports something he has said in the past that he does not support.

    Speaking of union membership rates, scandinavian countries have union membership as % of the overall workforce in the 60%+ ranges, Iceland has like a 90% union membership rate. Rate that are unheard of in this country. This is the model he says he is going for and I will give the benefit of the doubt that it is what he wants. Like every govt, he will make adjustments when reality sets in.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  12. #10
    Point # 4 in the article is correct and can never be refuted by leftists .
    Do something Danke

  13. #11
    Point # 5 makes more sense than anything any leftist can ever dream of .
    Do something Danke

  14. #12
    He's not even going to be the nominee anyway. He'll rally all the disaffected voters like he did last time, "cave in" to the eventual nominee, and then try to convince his supporters to vote for whoever that ends up being. You know, cause like worked out so well last time.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  15. #13
    Just going to point out a big problem Bernie would encounter trying to adopt the Scandinavian style mixed economy system (socialist based) in the US. The people and culture are different between the 2 countries. Ever been to Norway, Sweden or even Denmark? if you see how skinny people there are, you would think someone must have been force feeding them the Venezuelan diet. These people live a healthy lifestyle and this is something ingrained in their way of life and this difference between those countries and the US will lead to some costs going over budget.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  16. #14
    "Democratic socialism" is just capitalism with expensive social welfare programs.

  17. #15

    The Scandinavian Hygge Lifestyle Is Taking The World By Storm


  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I dunno if I would call it kinder but the kind of socialism he advocates is a lesser for of socialism where the capitalist portion of the economy is left intact and just taxed to the gills in order to finance a bigger welfare state. Yes, it would likely involve higher taxes and more regulation but not more govt ownership of corporations. What happened with amazon is more of a statist problem than a socialism problem. Statists tax and regulate and they did not want to give amazon any tax breaks, so they bailed.

    I just hate it when people strawman their opponents in order to win an argument. This is what they did here and its why I am calling em out just saying this for this people who still think I am in luv with socialism and/or communism.
    Gotcha, I'm no fan of Socialism or this Bernie form of it either. Both to me are economic killers.
    Where is John Galt?


    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Gotcha, I'm no fan of Socialism or this Bernie form of it either. Both to me are economic killers.
    According to some people here, that is not even socialism. I mean free(by free I mean govt sponsored) health care, free college education, and other welfare state goodies is just capitalism with welfare state. Dunno what everyone is afraid of, Bernie is giving us a different kind of capitalism
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  21. #18
    @juleswin - I am glad you are calling out the falsehoods of the news article. I did mention it was FOX news, so there is gonna be some misrepresentation of what socialism is. So good job on calling out the article on those falsehoods.

    +Rep

    So here is the thing. When people dont fully understand a subject, that lack of understanding is taken advantage of by those who stand a chance to benefit. One good example is saying something is "Capitalism" when its actually "Socialism" in its nature. Exchanging words and definitions. Another good example is misrepresenting what Freedom is. Freedom is not having to make decisions for yourself. That is a definite misrepresentation. Its also how Freedom becomes demonized and how the powerful gain even more power.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    @juleswin - I am glad you are calling out the falsehoods of the news article. I did mention it was FOX news, so there is gonna be some misrepresentation of what socialism is. So good job on calling out the article on those falsehoods.

    +Rep

    So here is the thing. When people dont fully understand a subject, that lack of understanding is taken advantage of by those who stand a chance to benefit. One good example is saying something is "Capitalism" when its actually "Socialism" in its nature. Exchanging words and definitions. Another good example is misrepresenting what Freedom is. Freedom is not having to make decisions for yourself. That is a definite misrepresentation. Its also how Freedom becomes demonized and how the powerful gain even more power.
    Not to mention the word 'fascism'. Everyone associates fascism with mass murder, thanks to Hitler and Franco. But Mussolini managed to have fascism without killing quite that many people.

    In any case, that's what Sanders is proposing (which is a sixth thing he doesn't want us to know). And if anyone thinks we have corruption now, just elect that idiot. We'll find out real quick what Total Corruption feels like.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 02-26-2019 at 07:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    @juleswin - I am glad you are calling out the falsehoods of the news article. I did mention it was FOX news, so there is gonna be some misrepresentation of what socialism is. So good job on calling out the article on those falsehoods.

    +Rep

    So here is the thing. When people dont fully understand a subject, that lack of understanding is taken advantage of by those who stand a chance to benefit. One good example is saying something is "Capitalism" when its actually "Socialism" in its nature. Exchanging words and definitions. Another good example is misrepresenting what Freedom is. Freedom is not having to make decisions for yourself. That is a definite misrepresentation. Its also how Freedom becomes demonized and how the powerful gain even more power.
    Couldn't agree more. There is also a lot of bias when it comes to definitions when a mixed economic system of capitalism and socialism works, it is called capitalism and when it fails they say its socialism. This is why it seems to them like every socialist system is doomed to collapse.

    But I am a little perplexed with your definition of freedom, what is wrong with the definition above and how would u define freedom?
    Last edited by juleswin; 02-26-2019 at 07:15 PM.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    But I am a little perplexed with your definition of freedom, how would u define freedom?

    FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF CITIZENS - https://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ES-OF-CITIZENS

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Couldn't agree more. There is also a lot of bias when it comes to definitions when a mixed economic system of capitalism and socialism works, it is called capitalism and when it fails they say its socialism. This is why it seems to them like every socialist system is doomed to collapse.

    But I am a little perplexed with your definition of freedom, how would u define freedom?
    I didnt put a true definition in my previous statement. True Freedom, I believe is two things: #1 - Self Authority, and #2 - Self Responsibility. The second is much more important because it is the back door to dismantling Rights, which gets into what Ron Paul has always said about Entitlements. Entitlements are the opposite of #2 because it puts the Responsibility of True Freedom on everyone else. Once #2 is removed, where a person expect to be taken care of by everyone else, then #1 is soon to go away too.

    Perhaps a good example is Gun Ownership. There are people out there who would own a gun and behave irresponsibly with them. Real Gun Responsibility is knowing how to use it safely and limiting its usage to not cause malicious harm to others. I used the term 'malicious' because Self Defense is not a malicious act, while using a gun to rob a store or shoot at rival gangs I would consider a malicious act. That ability to be Self Responsible with a gun is given away, then Gun Rights will also soon be eliminated.

    I believe another good example is Drunk Driving. Driving Drunk was not made illegal until too many people behaved irresponsibly with alcohol and cars. Once people started getting hurt, then Self Responsibility was replaced with Legal repercussions against those who chose to drive while too intoxicated.

    The loss of Freedom is Incremental. First thing they do is deprive a persons ability to express Self Responsibility. Mandating Insurance is probably a good example, where Insurance is used to handle the consequences of irresponsibility. I am half surprised that by now they have not made gun insurance mandatory because guns are sometimes used by criminals to shoot other people. Again, its a back door. Oh you cant afford gun insurance so you are not allowed to own a gun bla bla bla.

    Thats my idea of Real Freedom. We have both Self Authority, but, must also take Full Responsibility for all of our own actions.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    According to some people here, that is not even socialism. I mean free(by free I mean govt sponsored) health care, free college education, and other welfare state goodies is just capitalism with welfare state. Dunno what everyone is afraid of, Bernie is giving us a different kind of capitalism
    We aren't a capitalist system. If that were the case a lot of companies (and banks) would have failed without government bailouts. No, were a form of Plutocratic oligarchy of some sort with a bit of nepotism thrown in.
    Where is John Galt?


    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I dunno if I would call it kinder but the kind of socialism he advocates is a lesser for of socialism where the capitalist portion of the economy is left intact and just taxed to the gills in order to finance a bigger welfare state. Yes, it would likely involve higher taxes and more regulation but not more govt ownership of corporations. What happened with amazon is more of a statist problem than a socialism problem. Statists tax and regulate and they did not want to give amazon any tax breaks, so they bailed.

    I just hate it when people strawman their opponents in order to win an argument. This is what they did here and its why I am calling em out just saying this for this people who still think I am in luv with socialism and/or communism.
    And since we know that any form of government that includes force can manage to maintain itself at the original level of tyranny forever without EVER expanding into other areas...
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
    In Washington you can see them everywhere: the Parasites and baby Stalins sucking the life out of a once-great nation.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by fedupinmo View Post
    And since we know that any form of government that includes force can manage to maintain itself at the original level of tyranny forever without EVER expanding into other areas...
    I dunno why you are rolling your eyes but one, nothing lasts forever so I am not even going to argue that point. On the other hand, you can sustain a society run with a form of government that uses force for a very long time without expanding into other areas(whatever that really means)
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    We aren't a capitalist system. If that were the case a lot of companies (and banks) would have failed without government bailouts. No, were a form of Plutocratic oligarchy of some sort with a bit of nepotism thrown in.
    True and the news of the recent success of Chrystler which the govt took over during the bailout, shafted the share holders is more evidence that socialism, central planning or whatever u call this system can work or rather doesn't always lead to collapse.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...obs-Back-to-MI
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    True and the news of the recent success of Chrystler which the govt took over during the bailout, shafted the share holders is more evidence that socialism, central planning or whatever u call this system can work or rather doesn't always lead to collapse.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...obs-Back-to-MI
    Um, the federal government immediately sold Chrysler to FIAT. It didn't own Chrysler for a week. It didn't buy it out, it just forced the sale.

    That isn't just a straw man. You created a whole straw company.

    If you want to know what kind of cars governments produce, test drive a Trabant.

    There are three kinds of products in the world. There are the ones people want to buy. There are the ones people don't want to buy and can't buy, because the company went out of the business. And there are the ones nobody wants to buy, but buy anyway, because the government has lots of guns, and won't let people buy anything else. Anything else could exist in theory. But you won't find them in the really real world.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 02-27-2019 at 10:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Um, the federal government immediately sold Chrysler to FIAT. It didn't own Chrysler for a week. It didn't buy it out, it just forced the sale.

    That isn't just a straw man. You created a whole straw company.

    If you want to know what kind of cars governments produce, test drive a Trabant.

    There are three kinds of products in the world. There are the ones people want to buy. There are the ones people don't want to buy and can't buy, because the company went out of the business. And there are the ones nobody wants to buy, but buy anyway, because the government has lots of guns, and won't let people buy anything else. Anything else could exist in theory. But you won't find them in the really real world.
    Well, they bought majority stake in Chrysler, which helped em take over control of the company. And the end result is success for the little car company. Btw, I have driven a lada and it was OK, my uncle had one and he loved it. Cheap, easy to repair and all around work horse of a car. Not saying I will pick it over a toyota but it was an OK car from my experience. Just saying

    Agree with the rest of the thread.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Well, they bought majority stake in Chrysler, which helped em take over control of the company. And the end result is success for the little car company. Btw, I have driven a lada and it was OK, my uncle had one and he loved it. Cheap, easy to repair and all around work horse of a car. Not saying I will pick it over a toyota but it was an OK car from my experience. Just saying

    Agree with the rest of the thread.
    The government brokered a deal. That's all. And the Soviet Union didn't design the Lada. FIAT did. The best the USSR could do was the Pobeida.

    Unless you count the ZIL and ZIS, of course. But you aren't allowed to buy those, comrade. Who do you think you are, Stalin? Though I have owned a couple of the cars the ZIL and ZIS stole their technology from, in my decadent capitalist existence.

    They beat the snot out of that FIAT 124 I drove. This in spite of the fact that everyone who ever drove both an original FIAT 124 and its Lada copy and lived to write about it said the FIAT was the better car.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 02-27-2019 at 10:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The government brokered a deal. That's all. And the Soviet Union didn't design the Lada. FIAT did. The best the USSR could do was the Pobeida.

    Unless you count the ZIL and ZIS, of course. But you aren't allowed to buy those, comrade. Who do you think you are, Stalin? Though I have owned a couple of the cars the ZIL and ZIS stole their technology from, in my decadent capitalist existence.

    They beat the snot out of that FIAT 124 I drove.
    From my understanding, the lada was built as a joint venture between Soviet union and fiat. I dunno if its fair to give all the credit to fiat seeing as the communist govt in Russia were involved in the creation.

    But its not like govt is incapable of building something the people will like cos remember, govt is actually made up of individual people and people tend to do genius work every now and then.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

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