Another Venezuela Thread :)

[UWDude]

Maduro: Two People Captured While Sabotaging Communications

[goldenequity]

tim anderson‏ @Timand2037 · 36 min.
How they planned the sabotage of electricity in Venezuela - US democracy promotion in action.
By Max Blumenthal
US Regime Change Blueprint Proposed Venezuelan Electricity Blackouts as ‘Watershed Event’ for ‘Galvanizing Public Unrest’
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/03/11/u...public-unrest/



US tax paid NGO's (The US-funded CANVAS organization) have been training activist 'overthrow saboteurs' like 'Juan Guaido and friends' for decades worldwide.

CANVAS is a spinoff of Otpor, a Serbian protest group founded by Srdja Popovic in 1998 at the University of Belgrade. Otpor, which means “resistance” in Serbian, was the student group that worked alongside US soft power organizations to mobilize the protests that eventually toppled the late Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic.

CANVAS has been funded largely through the National Endowment for Democracy, a CIA cut-out that functions as the US government’s main arm of promoting regime change. According to leaked internal emails from Stratfor, an intelligence firm known as the “shadow CIA,” CANVAS “may have also received CIA funding and training during the 1999/2000 anti-Milosevic struggle.”

A leaked email from a Stratfor staffer noted that after they ousted Milosevic, “the kids who ran OTPOR grew up, got suits and designed CANVAS… or in other words a ‘export-a-revolution’ group that sowed the seeds for a NUMBER of color revolutions. They are still hooked into U.S. funding and basically go around the world trying to topple dictators and autocratic governments (ones that U.S. does not like .”

Stratfor subsequently revealed that CANVAS “turned its attention to Venezuela” in 2005, after training opposition movements that led pro-NATO regime change operations across Eastern Europe.

In September 2010, as Venezuela headed for a parliamentary election, CANVAS produced a series of memos outlining the plans they had hatched with “non-formal actors” like Guaido and his cadre of student activists to bring down Chavez. “This is the first opportunity for the opposition to get back into a position of power,” Popovic wrote at the time.

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Guy Elster
BREAKING Pompeo says Russia has created “this crisis” in Venezuela.


==========


teleSUR English
Venezuela | The government announced the opening of a humanitarian corridor on its border with Colombia.
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/...q_xiXlD3llomxs

[UWDude]

Guy Elster
BREAKING Pompeo says Russia has created “this crisis” in Venezuela.

Time and time again, the mind worm finds a new host. How it does it no one knows. What instincts lay it to seek and prey upon the weak minded?

[goldenequity]

[RonPaulIsGreat]

I doubt anyone sabotaged their grid.

I watched a documentary several years ago, on the venezuelan oil infrastructure deteriorating. So, the question is if oil is the life blood of venezuela and they let that fall into disrepair, why would it be unlikely their grid wasn't suffering the same fate.

I think we are witnessing the result of decades of a corrupt socialist system falling apart.

[Swordsmyth]

I doubt anyone sabotaged their grid.

I watched a documentary several years ago, on the venezuelan oil infrastructure deteriorating. So, the question is if oil is the life blood of venezuela and they let that fall into disrepair, why would it be unlikely their grid was suffering the same fate.

I think we witnessing the result of decades of a corrupt socialist system falling apart.

I agree, but bad maintenance could also make it more vulnerable to sabotage.
The thing to remember is that you can't trust anyone in these situations.
Maduro could have ordered the sabotage so that he could blame the US and Guaido.
We should stay out of the whole mess but it is quite sickening to watch libertarians twist themselves into knots to support a communist dictator just because they oppose the American empire.
Ideally the US would have nothing to do with the situation down there and Guaido would overthrow Maduro.

[UWDude]

Ideally the US would have nothing to do with the situation down there and Guaido would overthrow Maduro.

How long have you been a follower and fan of Guaido?
How long have you known his name, and believed him to be the great leader Venezuela needs to free them from the chains of Socialism?

[Swordsmyth]

How long have you been a follower and fan of Guaido?
How long have you known his name, and believed him to be the great leader Venezuela needs to free them from the chains of Socialism?

I know little about him but I know enough.
I know more about Chavez and Maduro.
I know Guaido is not good enough, he is still a socialist, just a less extreme one, but he is the only chance Venezuela has right now to start turning things around.

[UWDude]

.
I know Guaido is not good enough, he is still a socialist, just a less extreme one, but he is the only chance Venezuela has right now to start turning things around.

How?

What is Guaido going to do to turn around Venezuela?

You are all platitudes on this one. You don't have a god damned clue who Guiado is.

All I KNOW, is the media loves the idea, and the US has already declared him legitimate president, and that is ALL I NEED TO KNOW.

[goldenequity]

https://twitter.com/ConflictsW/statu...95433010548739

[devil21]

I agree, but bad maintenance could also make it more vulnerable to sabotage.
The thing to remember is that you can't trust anyone in these situations.
Maduro could have ordered the sabotage so that he could blame the US and Guaido.
We should stay out of the whole mess but it is quite sickening to watch libertarians twist themselves into knots to support a communist dictator just because they oppose the American empire.
Ideally the US would have nothing to do with the situation down there and Guaido would overthrow Maduro.

No one is supporting Maduro, but you knew that. We just know what this whole Guaido thing is about and we've seen it over and over. Non-intervention means staying out of other's people's business, not necessarily supporting the decisions they make or the type of system they live under.

You'd have to be a goddamned idiot to think that it's just coincidence that multiple hydropower dams failed, multiple substations caught fire and the country was thrown into darkness right at the same time that the regime change operation looked to be sputtering. Here's a pro tip: regime change operations aren't ultimately about changing the leaders themselves. Regime change operations are about managing the people that live there, their perceptions of their life and what they support, and, of course, controlling the resources that they labor on. That's like saying that swapping out GWB and Obama resulted in grand differences in how this country was run. It didn't. Wars continued, bankers still controlled everything, government still grew, etc. It only changed the people's perspective of how they were managed. Leaders come and go, elected or not. What matters is controlling the perceptions of the masses existence.

[juleswin]

No one is supporting Maduro, but you knew that. We just know what this whole Guaido thing is about and we've seen it over and over. Non-intervention means staying out of other's people's business, not necessarily supporting the decisions they make or the type of system they live under.

You'd have to be a goddamned idiot to think that it's just coincidence that multiple hydropower dams failed, multiple substations caught fire and the country was thrown into darkness right at the same time that the regime change operation looked to be sputtering. Here's a pro tip: regime change operations aren't ultimately about changing the leaders themselves. Regime change operations are about managing the people that live there, their perceptions of their life and what they support, and, of course, controlling the resources that they labor on. That's like saying that swapping out GWB and Obama resulted in grand differences in how this country was run. It didn't. Wars continued, bankers still controlled everything, government still grew, etc. It only changed the people's perspective of how they were managed. Leaders come and go, elected or not. What matters is controlling the perceptions of the masses existence.

Are you trying to say that going from Maduro to Gauido is going to be as inconsequential as going from Obama to Trump?

[Swordsmyth]

No one is supporting Maduro, but you knew that. We just know what this whole Guaido thing is about and we've seen it over and over. Non-intervention means staying out of other's people's business, not necessarily supporting the decisions they make or the type of system they live under.

You'd have to be a goddamned idiot to think that it's just coincidence that multiple hydropower dams failed, multiple substations caught fire and the country was thrown into darkness right at the same time that the regime change operation looked to be sputtering. Here's a pro tip: regime change operations aren't ultimately about changing the leaders themselves. Regime change operations are about managing the people that live there, their perceptions of their life and what they support, and, of course, controlling the resources that they labor on. That's like saying that swapping out GWB and Obama resulted in grand differences in how this country was run. It didn't. Wars continued, bankers still controlled everything, government still grew, etc. It only changed the people's perspective of how they were managed. Leaders come and go, elected or not. What matters is controlling the perceptions of the masses existence.

People here ARE supporting Maduro and I said nobody could be trusted and that we should keep out of it.

[devil21]

Are you trying to say that going from Maduro to Gauido is going to be as inconsequential as going from Obama to Trump?

Something like that. Maduro's Venezuela isn't nearly as 'socialist' as is claimed by the mainstream voices or the shills, outside of their oil industry. It's socialist about like the US is socialist. They're just more honest about it. We spend a lot of effort lying to ourselves about it here.

Any way my previous post wasn't easy to write because it's a hard concept to put into words. Take it however you will.

[Swordsmyth]

Something like that. Maduro's Venezuela isn't nearly as 'socialist' as is claimed by the mainstream voices or the shills, outside of their oil industry. It's socialist about like the US is socialist. They're just more honest about it. We spend a lot of effort lying to ourselves about it here.

LOL

[devil21]

LOL

That's not a reply to my post but it is a standard deflection from you when facts are presented that you have no way to spin without looking clueless.

Venezuela has many private companies. Venezuela pools monetary resources for redistribution by the government. Sounds familiar, no?

[Swordsmyth]

That's not a reply to my post but it is a standard deflection from you when facts are presented that you have no way to spin without looking clueless.

Venezuela has many private companies. Venezuela pools monetary resources for redistribution by the government. Sounds familiar, no?

Venezuela seizes private companies and "nationalizes" them in large numbers and Venezuela sets price controls on many products including basics like food and fuel.

[devil21]

Venezuela seizes private companies and "nationalizes" them in large numbers and Venezuela sets price controls on many products including basics like food and fuel.

Here we call them "bailouts" and "subsidies". Privatize the profits, socialize the losses. You think there aren't price controls here? Dude, price controls are one of the Fed's congressionally legislated mandates!

Then there's the entire social security system, welfare state, military industrial complex, ad nausem, all of which are redistribution of the people's wealth at the whim of the government. Tis socialism but using soft language.

[Swordsmyth]

Here we call them "bailouts" and "subsidies". Privatize the profits, socialize the losses. You think there aren't price controls here? Dude, price controls are one of the Fed's congressionally legislated mandates!

Venezuela is much worse.
I never said America was perfect.

[goldenequity]

https://twitter.com/BradCabana/statu...74116866117632

[goldenequity]

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1105867715137466368

[RonZeplin]

D&R party socialists have over the health care & drug industries, education, automobile industry, light bulb industry, the firearms & all other arms industries, retirement financial planning SS, toilet & shower head industry, the internets, and thousands more.

A socialist utopia? NOT
Maybe we should cure our own socialism disease, before trying to spread our socialist (democracy) police state to sovereign nations?

Maybe we should just mind our own damn business.

[invisible]

That's not a reply to my post but it is a standard deflection from you when facts are presented that you have no way to spin without looking clueless.

Venezuela has many private companies. Venezuela pools monetary resources for redistribution by the government. Sounds familiar, no?

This puts the shylls in a difficult position. It is time for them to own what they have been shylling for, they either support for their Authoritarian Idol and thus support endless unConstitutional wars and oppose Ron Paul, or they support Ron Paul and disavow support for their Authoritarian Idol. Likewise, the RPF site owner and mods have a similar choice. Either the site and site mission supports Ron Paul and no longer allows the shylling to continue, or the site and site mission opposes Ron Paul by continuing to not enforce the site guidelines and mission statement. The mask is about to fully come off. The shylls will attempt to distract from the issue by making this about socialists, but this has nothing to do with socialists, this is about US foreign policy as directed by their Authoritarian Idol and the cabinet members that he can fire at any time. If anyone supporting Ron Paul and speaking against foreign intervention is laughed at or mocked, then the shylls are really laughing at and mocking Ron Paul, just as they have been doing here with the full sanctioning and approval of the site owner and mods.

[juleswin]

This puts the shylls in a difficult position. It is time for them to own what they have been shylling for, they either support for their Authoritarian Idol and thus support endless unConstitutional wars and oppose Ron Paul, or they support Ron Paul and disavow support for their Authoritarian Idol. Likewise, the RPF site owner and mods have a similar choice. Either the site and site mission supports Ron Paul and no longer allows the shylling to continue, or the site and site mission opposes Ron Paul by continuing to not enforce the site guidelines and mission statement. The mask is about to fully come off. The shylls will attempt to distract from the issue by making this about socialists, but this has nothing to do with socialists, this is about US foreign policy as directed by their Authoritarian Idol and the cabinet members that he can fire at any time. If anyone supporting Ron Paul and speaking against foreign intervention is laughed at or mocked, then the shylls are really laughing at and mocking Ron Paul, just as they have been doing here with the full sanctioning and approval of the site owner and mods.

The inmates have taken over the asylum. If Ron Paul ran against Trump instead of Rand, I bet the majority of the people on this site would vote for Trump. At first the forum was about liberty and freedom, now it have evolved more toward the support of ethno nationalism and survival of the tribe. The mods would empty this site if they ever tried to clean house.

The idea that was this site has slowly been dying since Ron lost the election. Nothing you can do about it

[invisible]

The inmates have taken over the asylum. If Ron Paul ran against Trump instead of Rand, I bet the majority of the people on this site would vote for Trump. At first the forum was about liberty and freedom, now it have evolved more toward the support of ethno nationalism and survival of the tribe. The mods would empty this site if they ever tried to clean house.

The idea that was this site has slowly been dying since Ron lost the election. Nothing you can do about it

It was by design. Go back to the spring 2016 evaluation thread. Willfully ignoring the results of the evaluation and refusing to enforce the site mission and guidelines resulted in most of the genuine Ron Paul supporters leaving. Nothing can be done about how the site owner treats their private property, but it can certainly be called out.

I've been following the Venezuela situation pretty closely, and it's been interesting to see how different media sources are reporting it. I'm waiting for the hard evidence to be produced that the US was behind the blackouts. So far, all evidence is circumstantial, but trump, his cabinet minions, CIA, and the rube do seem to have their thumbprints all over it.

[invisible]

In addition to the electric infrastructure, multiple sources also indicate a refinery being attacked yesterday.
Still waiting for any hard evidence on who was behind the attacks, but here's an interesting comment from a Russian diplomat:

http://tass.com/politics/1048826

"According to the country’s legitimate government headed by President Maduro, as well as to information from other credible

sources, Venezuela’s power grid was attacked from abroad," Zakharova noted.

"It was an attempt to remotely influence control systems at major electrical substations where Canadian-made equipment is

installed," Zakharova pointed out. "Clearly, those who carried out this act of aggression were well aware of its operation

algorithms and vulnerabilities. It is them who are to blame for the loss of human life, including in hospitals that were left

without power," she said.

What information, from what other sources?
Where are the developments of Venezuela's own investigation of the incidents?
Where are the reports of the inspectors from other countries that have been called in to help investigate?

If these incidents were a false flag, how could they possibly benefit maduro ("international sympathy" seems like a weak reason), why wouldn't they immediately produce a scapegoat, and why would they call in other countries to help investigate?

[juleswin]

In addition to the electric infrastructure, multiple sources also indicate a refinery being attacked yesterday.
Still waiting for any hard evidence on who was behind the attacks, but here's an interesting comment from a Russian diplomat:

http://tass.com/politics/1048826


What information, from what other sources?
Where are the developments of Venezuela's own investigation of the incidents?
Where are the reports of the inspectors from other countries that have been called in to help investigate?

If these incidents were a false flag, how could they possibly benefit maduro ("international sympathy" seems like a weak reason), why wouldn't they immediately produce a scapegoat, and why would they call in other countries to help investigate?

You know, if the western imperialists finally get around to killing him like they did Allende, that would really boost his popularity amongst the Venezuelans. Ask yourself this question, who is more popular than a dead martyr?

[juleswin]

It was by design. Go back to the spring 2016 evaluation thread. Willfully ignoring the results of the evaluation and refusing to enforce the site mission and guidelines resulted in most of the genuine Ron Paul supporters leaving. Nothing can be done about how the site owner treats their private property, but it can certainly be called out.

I've been following the Venezuela situation pretty closely, and it's been interesting to see how different media sources are reporting it. I'm waiting for the hard evidence to be produced that the US was behind the blackouts. So far, all evidence is circumstantial, but trump, his cabinet minions, CIA, and the rube do seem to have their thumbprints all over it.

I doubt you will ever see hard evidence that the CIA did it. These people generally don't leave hard evidence lying around.

About the state of the forum, I don't think the 2016 evaluation would have made a difference. Trump won the information warfare and combine it with the new loud mouth, high volume posting Trump supporters that came in before the evaluation. They just beat the liberty people with the ideas. The message of liberty is not as popular as many of us will like to believe.

[invisible]

I doubt you will ever see hard evidence that the CIA did it. These people generally don't leave hard evidence lying around.

About the state of the forum, I don't think the 2016 evaluation would have made a difference. Trump won the information warfare and combine it with the new loud mouth, high volume posting Trump supporters that came in before the evaluation. They just beat the liberty people with the ideas. The message of liberty is not as popular as many of us will like to believe.

There was enough conclusive evidence with the stuxnet thing and Iran. Venezuela claims that the Russian cybersecurity experts are helping their investigation. Surely the initial evidence will only be enough to get a patsy, but the entire truth of the matter will eventually come out, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Shouting louder and more often isn't winning anything, and this is done only as an attempt to make people believe that freedom is not as popular as Ron Paul says it is. You can't beat liberty out of people by shouting louder and more often, any more than you can export democracy with a war.

[goldenequity]

backfired. NEW! IMPROVED! Now with MOAR SUPPORT!!

https://twitter.com/EmbassyofRussia/...24835481051136