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Thread: US Says Alabama Jihadist Cannot Re-Enter US Because Automatically Loses Citizenship

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Yes. Or at least that is precisely the question. She has not gone through the normal process or relinquishing her citizenship. And in order to say that she has done that by way of some criminal act that she denies, that would need to be proven. I.e. due process.

    That said, I hope that you don't actually approve of the idea that due process is only for US citizens, such that I have a right to go out and violate someone else's rights on the pretense of punishing them for some crime, without due process, as long as they're not a US citizen. I have no such right, and inasmuch as I don't have it, I can't delegate to any government to do that on my behalf. And it happens to be a fact that nowhere in the Constitution is any authority delegated to the federal government to go out into the world violating people's rights on the pretense of some crime they are charged with without actually proving them guilty first. The federal government has no constitutional authority at all to punish anyone, citizen or not, for any crime without due process.

    If that power does belong to the federal government, then we're right back at what I said initially. The regime can simply charge you with a crime that entails relinquishment of your citizenship (if you are one) and then punish you on top of that without proving you guilty, since due process would only be for citizens. And of course, this is only part of the problem, since the punishment of anyone at all without due process is obviously unethical.

    Yes , I advocate DUE PROCESS for US Citizens exclusively.
    A Jihadi that sneezes has no right to be in the US.

    The Patriot Act eliminated Due process for
    US Citizens, that is is what we should be focusing on.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If she renounced her citizenship the she doesn't have it any more and she has no right to come here.
    I thought you couldn't get rid of your citizenship without paying nowadays. Did she pay the exit tax?



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by James_Madison_Lives View Post
    An enemy combatant is still a citizen. Next it will be anyone framed up as "associated with terrorism" like the NDAA military detention of US citizens. She still has rights until tried, even if just the right to a trial and jail.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/af...-jihadist.html
    No problem with the measure in principle. In reality, though, I have lots of problems with it because humans.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Yes , I advocate DUE PROCESS for US Citizens exclusively.
    A Jihadi that sneezes has no right to be in the US.
    So being a jihadi (whatever that vague and infinitely stretchable label entails) means someone is not a US citizen? OK. And then when the regime accuses a US citizen, say, you, for example, of being a jihadi, so that you are no longer a citizen, should they have to prove that you actually did something criminal to warrant that? Or does that fact that their labeling you a jihadi removes your citizenship mean they get to skip that step?

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Any motive at all would be tough to prove, which is part of due process (and I think we're all still agreeing that due process is necessary, right?). I don't see a difference between burning her passport and burning an American flag. Due you favor similar punishments for people who do that?
    Her motive isn't hard to prove at all. Her Youtube channel has hundreds of hours of her explaining her motivation. FFS - she joined ISIS.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    No problem with the measure in principle. In reality, though, I have lots of problems with it because humans.
    The best that that can come out of this case is the reminder to the left that the birthright citizenship has already been modified with legislation, and can be again.

    But I'm not a fan of tinkering with that document, so I say let's just hang her as per the constitution.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Her motive isn't hard to prove at all. Her Youtube channel has hundreds of hours of her explaining her motivation. FFS - she joined ISIS.
    How does that prove an intention to relinquish the benefits of US citizenship?

    And what does "join ISIS" actually mean anyway, specifically? What does one do to "join ISIS"? Did she replace her US passport with an ISIS passport? Is there even an objective way to define who is in ISIS and who isn't? Or is it like the way the label "Al Qaeda" used to get thrown at anything it would stick to, so that the regime would have the excuse it needed to assassinate and torture whomever it wanted? Does "joining ISIS" even have anything to do with citizenship anywhere at all? Does "joining ISIS" entail commission of any specific crimes or participation in conspiring to commit any specific crimes?

    Or does this all just boil down to wanting to punish the wrong opinions she uttered in her exercise of freedom of speech?

    If the latter, then again I don't see how this differs from flag burning.

    And even if it is easy to prove that she intended to relinquish her citizenship, that process of proving it still should happen. It can't be that the charge alone is all it takes to lose citizenship.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 02-21-2019 at 09:29 AM.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    So being a jihadi (whatever that vague and infinitely stretchable label entails) means someone is not a US citizen? OK. And then when the regime accuses a US citizen, say, you, for example, of being a jihadi, so that you are no longer a citizen, should they have to prove that you actually did something criminal to warrant that? Or does that fact that their labeling you a jihadi removes your citizenship mean they get to skip that step?
    Martians get the same rights as Jihadis' , ziltch, gtfo , go home.

    So Gibberish man why did you not address (NO) DUE PROCESS for US citizens...



  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    So Gibberish man why did you not address (NO) DUE PROCESS for US citizens...
    I already addressed that, and you already replied to my post doing so.

    Do you have a specific question about that that I didn't answer?

    In case I wasn't clear enough, I totally disagree with the idea that if someone isn't a US citizen the regime is authorized to punish them for crimes without due process. Neither the Constitution nor the Creator's laws permit that.

    Incidentally, I'm in good company here.
    https://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/201...itizen-or-not/

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    How does that prove an intention to relinquish the benefits of US citizenship?




    Go to Syria and ask her what the benefits are.

    In her latest video she admits she went to Syria to join ISIS and fight against the USA. You can stop trying to being coy about that. Those words came right out of her own mouth.

    All I know is that she is a radicalized Muslim, who renounced a her citizenship while ranting things about death to America and infidels while on her own camera. She burned her passport on camera while doing so. She married at least 2 different Islamic fighters, providing support and comfort for the enemy, but now wants to come home because she's tired of living in a tent?

    I'm ok with bringing her home, but I want her hung.
    Last edited by angelatc; 02-21-2019 at 09:46 AM.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    All I know is that she is a radicalized Muslim, who renounced a her citizenship while ranting things about death to America and infidels while on her own camera.
    Can you link to the video where she renounced her citizenship?

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    She married at least 2 different Islamic fighters, providing support and comfort for the enemy
    What kind of support? Did these fighters actually fight anyone? Or just express opinions like her? And what involvement can you prove she had in whatever crimes you can prove they committed?

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I'm ok with bringing her home, but I want her hung.
    Without a trial?

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Can you link to the video where she renounced her citizenship?
    If you mean the video where she burned her passport while encouraging people to take up arms and murder people like you and I, I could yesterday but it's gone now. I have to leave - I'll try to find it later.


    What kind of support? Did these fighters actually fight anyone? Or just express opinions like her? And what involvement can you prove she had in whatever crimes you can prove they committed?
    Jesus $#@!ing CHrist - never mind. She literally joined ISIS. They are a radical Islamic cult that slaughters non-believers. And you're pretending they don't exist? Even her lawyer hasn't gone that far away from reality. You're off the plantation, son.

    Constitutionally, providing aid and comfort is the crime. I don't have to go any farther.

    Never mind. I won't be looking for the video. You're just trolling at this point. When I find it again, you'll just say the CIA concocted it.


    Without a trial?
    Same type trial ISIS gave the people they beheaded in the name of Allah.

    I'd make her kid watch.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The best that that can come out of this case is the reminder to the left that the birthright citizenship has already been modified with legislation, and can be again.

    But I'm not a fan of tinkering with that document, so I say let's just hang her as per the constitution.
    I'm a pretty decent cabinet maker. If someone will provide the lumber, I will build the gallows... or guillotine.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Jesus $#@!ing CHrist - never mind. She literally joined ISIS.
    What does litarally joining ISIS involve, specifically? Something more than speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    They are a radical Islamic cult that slaughters non-believers.
    Notice the steps you are taking here. It's not that you believe it could be proven that she slaughtered anyone, or did anything at all to help anyone else slaughter anyone. But she used a label for herself that's the same label that other people who slaughter people use for themselves, so she is guilty by association of whatever they're guilty of.

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Never mind. I won't be looking for the video. You're just trolling at this point. When I find it again, you'll just say the CIA concocted it.
    Right. Because I'm sure you've seen me say stuff like that before.

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Same type trial ISIS gave the people they beheaded in the name of Allah.

    I'd make her kid watch.
    Gotcha.

    If that's your example of the kind of due process you support, I think it's you who's trolling here.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 02-21-2019 at 10:02 AM.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    So being a jihadi (whatever that vague and infinitely stretchable label entails) means someone is not a US citizen? OK. And then when the regime accuses a US citizen, say, you, for example, of being a jihadi, so that you are no longer a citizen, should they have to prove that you actually did something criminal to warrant that? Or does that fact that their labeling you a jihadi removes your citizenship mean they get to skip that step?
    Wait a minute dip$#@!, was she a US Citizen fk no, you must know by know why
    your new moniker is Gibberish Man , it should probably be changed to Dipshitman.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Wait a minute dip$#@!, was she a US Citizen fk no.
    That's the whole point of dispute.

    She was a natural-born US citizen. She didn't relinquish her citizenship the normal way. She is accused of relinquishing it by way of joining ISIS under the law cited above. But if so, it has to be proven that she intended to relinquish her citizenship. Even if it's obvious and easy to prove, it still needs to be done.

    If I understand you correctly, you're saying that that step should be skipped, because the mere accusation of being a jihadi entails a loss of citizenship, and thus loss of due process. Is that not what you're saying?

    If that is not your position, then please clarify. If it is, then we're back to the question that seems to offend you so much, which is whether or not the regime that you want to have this power to use against one US citizen should also have the same power to use against you.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 02-21-2019 at 10:39 AM.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Wait a minute dip$#@!, was she a US Citizen fk no, you must know by know why
    your new moniker is Gibberish Man , it should probably be changed to Dipshitman.
    Wait a second! I think I just realized who you are! You're @speciallyblend aren't you?

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Wait a second! I think I just realized who you are! You're @speciallyblend aren't you?
    Wut, I have no idea what you are referring too.
    I have never been anything but Stratovarious on this site, never even heard of speciallyblend anything, anywhere.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    That's the whole point of dispute.

    She was a natural-born US citizen. She didn't relinquish her citizenship the normal way. She is accused of relinquishing it by way of joining ISIS under the law cited above. But if so, it has to be proven that she intended to relinquish her citizenship. Even if it's obvious and easy to prove, it still needs to be done.

    If I understand you correctly, you're saying that that step should be skipped, because the mere accusation of being a jihadi entails a loss of citizenship, and thus loss of due process. Is that not what you're saying?

    If that is not your position, then please clarify. If it is, then we're back to the question that seems to offend you so much, which is whether or not the regime that you want to have this power to use against one US citizen should also have the same power to use against you.
    If 'she' is a US Citizen , then she should be availed to Due Process, by all means.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    If 'she' is a US Citizen , then she should be availed to Due Process, by all means.
    Then what did I say in post 34 that you disagreed with so strongly?

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I also think that this could be an interesting test to eventually limit birthright citizenship. I don't have the details, but the outlet I saw was reporting that she was born to a diplomat, albeit a couple of months after he left the post. Children born to diplomats don't get citizenship. If he was still here on his diplomatic visa, that will make an interesting court case.

    I am really pissed that the same people who were ready to lynch a high school boy are going all in for this traitorous wh*re. (She's 24, been married 3 times. So yeah.)
    There was no doubt from the first minute that this was reported, it was being framed and pushed as a SJW cause. SJW correct think spin was baked into the story right from the start.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
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  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Wut, I have no idea what you are referring too.
    I have never been anything but Stratovarious on this site, never even heard of speciallyblend anything, anywhere.
    He was an active poster who died in a 4 wheeler accident a few years ago. I guess Superfluous thinks he's so righteous he's brought back the dead.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    He was an active poster who died in a 4 wheeler accident a few years ago. I guess Superfluous thinks he's so righteous he's brought back the dead.
    I had no idea about that.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Then what did I say in post 34 that you disagreed with so strongly?
    I not going back there, probably not much, if anything, the point is (imv) that if she is in fact
    a US Citizen then we probably agree in everyway.
    Where we may differ is that I don't want to see any NON US citizen afforded constitutional rights,
    they just need to be deported and let their own country deal with whatever issues may 'be' .

  29. #55

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    He was an active poster who died in a 4 wheeler accident a few years ago. I guess Superfluous thinks he's so righteous he's brought back the dead.
    I'm sorry to hear that, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    There was no doubt from the first minute that this was reported, it was being framed and pushed as a SJW cause. SJW correct think spin was baked into the story right from the start.
    The Canadian Real Housewives of ISIS is better. One of them was apparently actually involved in a beheading.

    This article says it best;
    Of course they want to return to Canada. They decided to side with ISIS – a horrific terrorist organization that sold women into slavery, burned prisoners alive, beheaded people, threw gay people off of buildings, drowned people in cages – and more awful crimes. Then, ISIS lost, leaving them on the losing side and at the mercy of those who ISIS so brutally oppressed.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Where we may differ is that I don't want to see any NON US citizen afforded constitutional rights,
    they just need to be deported and let their own country deal with whatever issues may 'be' .
    You're right that we disagree about that. But that wasn't the point of the post that offended you so much.

    On this point, the way you use the phrase "constitutional rights" indicates that you misunderstand the nature of the Constitution. The Constitution doesn't give anyone our natural rights, like the right not to be punished for crimes without due process. The Constitution forbids the government to do things or authorizes it to do things. According to the 10th amendment, the federal government only has those powers that the Constitution delegates to it. The Constitution does not delegate to the federal government any power to punish anyone at all, whether US citizen or not, for any crime without due process. Also, the Fifth Amendment expressly forbids the federal government from depriving any person--not just US citizens--of life, liberty, or property, without due process.

    According to the Constitution itself, it is not the case that a person is born into this world with no rights until they are given those rights by the Constitution. Rather, people have natural rights, and the Constitution is supposed to forbid the federal government from violating those natural rights that everyone already has.
    Last edited by Superfluous Man; 02-21-2019 at 11:24 AM.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Yes , I advocate DUE PROCESS for US Citizens exclusively.
    A Jihadi that sneezes has no right to be in the US.

    The Patriot Act eliminated Due process for
    US Citizens, that is is what we should be focusing on.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    You're right that we disagree about that. But that wasn't the point of the post that offended you so much.

    On this point, the way you use the phrase "constitutional rights" indicates that you misunderstand the nature of the Constitution. The Constitution doesn't give anyone our natural rights, like the right not to be punished for crimes without due process. The Constitution forbids the government to do things or authorizes it to do things. According to the 10th amendment, the federal government only has those powers that the Constitution delegates to it. The Constitution does not delegate to the federal government any power to punish anyone at all, whether US citizen or not, for any crime without due process. Also, the Fifth Amendment expressly forbids the federal government from depriving any person--not just US citizens--of life, liberty, or property, without due process.

    According to the Constitution itself, it is not the case that a person is born into this world with no rights until they are given those rights by the Constitution. Rather, people have natural rights, and the Constitution is supposed to forbid the federal government from violating those natural rights that everyone already has.
    WUT did I just get through saying 10 times, deport non US Citizens , send their sht with them.

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