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Thread: Amazon Pays Zero Taxes Again on $11 Billion Profits, This is Socialism in America

  1. #31
    If I could get away with not paying any tax, I would do it too...

    Be glad that you dont get the government you pay for, and be even more glad that you dont get the government you dont pay for.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"





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  3. #32
    I can't believe people still fall for these headlines.

    1. There is very little information in financial statements to ascertain how much tax corporations paid. A 10k has zero to do with a tax return, that's why so much work is involved with book/tax reconciliations (provisions). You can have a 10k show zero for taxes paid but the tax return shows billions paid. Likewise, you can show 10 billion in taxes paid on the 10k but actually have paid nothing if your tax return has no liability. Income/expenses/assets/liabilities/deductions/credits/valuations/etc...these all have very different meanings for the financial accounting world than the tax return world.

    2. I have lost interest in AMZN, but they lost so much money for many years. Years and years of NOLs. Those all carry forward (and backward) so the effect is to not tax a business until they are net profitable. If they have not reached net profitability, they shouldn't be taxed (nobody else is).

    Non-horrific journos understand these nuances but most journos are horrific. Speculating on taxes without a tax return is worse than astrology.



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  5. #33
    A flat tax, and a tax code with no credits or deductions. Just a simple equation like: (income * .15) = tax owed. People pay the same rate as corporations and corporations pay the same rate as people.
    - SUPPORT FREE TRADE, SMUGGLE -

    2 + 2 = 5.

  6. #34
    I do not use amazon or any longer pay taxes myself . It is good to be on top.
    Do something Danke

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    A flat tax, and a tax code with no credits or deductions. Just a simple equation like: (income * .15) = tax owed. People pay the same rate as corporations and corporations pay the same rate as people.
    And income taxes are the same rate as capital gains.

    Of course that would only be a half step on the way to eliminating income taxes and capital gains taxes.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And income taxes are the same rate as capital gains.

    Of course that would only be a half step on the way to eliminating income taxes and capital gains taxes.
    I would rather have a zero income tax and zero capital gains but the realistic side of me knows that is a big hill to climb. At least with a simple formula everyone can actually see what the hell they pay and thus provides greater transparency. So, people could at least aim for a zero tax and it could be measured and tracked much easier too. Imagine being able to pull up a simple historical rate over the last 50 years. i.e. it was 10% one year, then 12% the next, then 20% the following year...etc. people could easily see what the hell is going on.

    An additional benefit is that we could reduce the number of employees at the IRS and probably put a serious dent in eliminating the need for tax prepare-rs and all that tax software garbage too.
    - SUPPORT FREE TRADE, SMUGGLE -

    2 + 2 = 5.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    A flat tax, and a tax code with no credits or deductions. Just a simple equation like: (income * .15) = tax owed. People pay the same rate as corporations and corporations pay the same rate as people.
    I feel a tweet coming on...


    @realDonaldTrump Start a flat tax. Use a simple formula like (income x .15) = Tax owed. Same rate for corporations and individuals pay the same rate. Eliminate ALL tax credits and deductions for each. This provides more transparency for all.
    - SUPPORT FREE TRADE, SMUGGLE -

    2 + 2 = 5.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    A flat tax, and a tax code with no credits or deductions. Just a simple equation like: (income * .15) = tax owed. People pay the same rate as corporations and corporations pay the same rate as people.
    No income taxes, period. Corporate or otherwise.

    And corporations don't pay taxes. Their customers do. Additionally taxing corporate profits and also taxing capital gains is double taxation. Something that the left heartily endorses.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I do not use amazon or any longer pay taxes myself . It is good to be on top.
    I don't usually do Amazon either, but it's not one of my usual solo boycotts. Sometimes they have cat food cheaper than WalMart so I'll buy 10 boxes or so, because if I buy that many I get free delivery too. But usually I find that they are more expensive than local shopping. I understand paying for convenience, but I don't want to.

    I do sell older books on Amazon but hardly anything else. I hate the fact that Amazon competes with me directly, so I just don't.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    No income taxes, period. Corporate or otherwise.

    And corporations don't pay taxes. Their customers do. Additionally taxing corporate profits and also taxing capital gains is double taxation. Something that the left heartily endorses.
    Right, the downstream end user(s) pay. Agreed, a zero income tax, but what would they tax instead? how about a flat rate V.A.T.?
    - SUPPORT FREE TRADE, SMUGGLE -

    2 + 2 = 5.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Right, the downstream end user(s) pay. Agreed, a zero income tax, but what would they tax instead? how about a flat rate V.A.T.?
    No VAT.

    The founders used tariffs on imports.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    No VAT.

    The founders used tariffs on imports.
    Hmm,..but tariffs = bad for free trade.

    How about an amendment that income tax can not exceed more than 10% of income? Although I want a zero income tax I know its unrealistic to expect it.
    - SUPPORT FREE TRADE, SMUGGLE -

    2 + 2 = 5.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Hmm,..but tariffs = bad for free trade.

    How about an amendment that income tax can not exceed more than 10% of income? Although I want a zero income tax I know its unrealistic to expect it.
    Tariffs just get passed along to consumers too. Since it is hidden in the prices of things, it is the same effect as a national sales tax- but consumers have no idea just how much the tax is really costing them.

    Currently about half of income tax filers owe no net income taxes.

    What would your ten percent flat income tax look like? National income is about $16 trillion. If spending is $4 trillion as it is today, we would need a 25% national flat income tax (not counting any exemptions). Ten percent would net $1.6 trillion. Social Security alone covers $1 trillion. Interest on the debt another $400 billion. That leaves $200 billion if you don't slash Social Security (even Ron Paul avoided talking about cutting that).
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-17-2019 at 12:37 PM.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Tariffs just get passed along to consumers too. Since it is hidden in the prices of things, it is the same effect as a national sales tax- but consumers have no idea just how much the tax is really costing them.

    Currently about half of income tax filers owe no net income taxes.
    If the price of the item is too high, the consumer has the choice not to buy it.

    An income tax doesn't leave the consumer any choice at all.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    If the price of the item is too high, the consumer has the choice not to buy it.

    An income tax doesn't leave the consumer any choice at all.
    Tariffs effect the prices of ALL goods. If you have our current level of spending we need a 200% tariff on all imports. That effects the prices of all imported goods but also all goods made domestically with any imported parts and removes competition for domestic goods so they can charge higher prices. The US imposed steel and aluminum tariffs- now US domestic steel prices are the highest in the world- even though we do produce steel domestically. As we impose tariffs, other countries impose them on us in response. That kills our exports costing jobs. The higher costs to producers here who use anything imported also cut jobs to try to cover the higher costs.

    Tariffs sound like somebody else is paying taxes so you don't have to but you do pay the tax every time you buy something.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-17-2019 at 12:52 PM.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Tariffs effect the prices of ALL goods. If you have our current level of spending we need a 200% tariff on all imports. That effects the prices of all imported goods but also all goods made domestically with any imported parts and removes competition for domestic goods so they can charge higher prices. The US imposed steel and aluminum tariffs- now US domestic steel prices are the highest in the world- even though we do produce steel domestically. As we impose tariffs, other countries impose them on us in response. That kills our exports costing jobs. The higher costs to producers here who use anything imported also cut jobs to try to cover the higher costs.

    Tariffs sound like somebody else is paying taxes so you don't have to but you do pay the tax every time you buy something.
    Yes, every time I buy something.

    There isn't a mandate as to what I have to buy, just yet.

    The less stuff I buy, the less taxes I end up paying.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Use a simple formula like (income x .15) = Tax owed. Same rate for corporations and individuals pay the same rate. Eliminate ALL tax credits and deductions for each.
    It's not that simple. Will businesses (whether or not incorporated) be unable to deduct wages paid to employees, rent, supplies, depreciation, and other costs of doing business? If not, which particular deductions will be allowed?

    Will all personal deductions go away, such as home mortgage interest, IRA contributions, and state and local taxes?
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  21. #48
    Keeping you own money instead of having it stolen by the state is the opposite of socialism.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Tariffs just get passed along to consumers too. Since it is hidden in the prices of things, it is the same effect as a national sales tax- but consumers have no idea just how much the tax is really costing them.

    Currently about half of income tax filers owe no net income taxes.

    What would your ten percent flat income tax look like? National income is about $16 trillion. If spending is $4 trillion as it is today, we would need a 25% national flat income tax (not counting any exemptions). Ten percent would net $1.6 trillion. Social Security alone covers $1 trillion. Interest on the debt another $400 billion. That leaves $200 billion if you don't slash Social Security (even Ron Paul avoided talking about cutting that).
    Of all forms of taxation, tariffs and excises are least intrusive.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Tariffs effect the prices of ALL goods. If you have our current level of spending we need a 200% tariff on all imports.
    You must be assuming that we would still import just as much even with that extra cost, which is a false assumption.

    In reality, there is no possible way that tariffs could ever garner as much revenue as the federal government currently spends, no matter what rate those tariffs are.

    There is nothing good about tariffs. But if the choice is between tariffs and an income tax, this very point is a definite point in favor of tariffs over income tax.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    It's not that simple. Will businesses (whether or not incorporated) be unable to deduct wages paid to employees, rent, supplies, depreciation, and other costs of doing business? If not, which particular deductions will be allowed?

    Will all personal deductions go away, such as home mortgage interest, IRA contributions, and state and local taxes?
    Yes.

    The tax code should not be used as a tool to punantively "nudge" people into certain decisions and directions.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    You must be assuming that we would still import just as much even with that extra cost, which is a false assumption.

    In reality, there is no possible way that tariffs could ever garner as much revenue as the federal government currently spends, no matter what rate those tariffs are.

    There is nothing good about tariffs. But if the choice is between tariffs and an income tax, this very point is a definite point in favor of tariffs over income tax.
    Actually with higher tariffs, imports should fall so the tariff rates will have to be even still higher to raise the same amount of revenues. You are right, you probably can't raise enough money at current spending levels via tariffs.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yes.

    The tax code should not be used as a tool to punantively "nudge" people into certain decisions and directions.
    Which is what tariffs do.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    You are right, you probably can't raise enough money at current spending levels via tariffs.
    This natural limitation is one thing that makes tariffs a less bad alternative than other taxes.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Which is what tariffs do.
    How does an across the board tariff do that?

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    How does an across the board tariff do that?
    It discourages buying of imported goods and goods which are made from any imported components. If you want it to be neutral to all goods, you want a national sales tax instead (tariffs are essentially a sales tax since they get passed along to consumers in the price of goods). But that too would have to be extremely high. Retail sales for the US runs about $6 trillion a year so instead of a 200% tariff on all imported goods (tripling their prices), a sales tax would have to be 67% on all retail goods to finance $4 trillion in spending (our current level). If you start exempting things (like food) the rate will need to be higher. And as with tariffs, sales would drop a lot when that tax rate hits so it would have to be higher than that.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-17-2019 at 01:33 PM.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    It discourages buying of imported goods and goods which are made from any imported components. If you want it to be neutral to all goods, you want a national sales tax instead. But that too would have to be extremely high. Retail sales for the US runs about $6 trillion a year so instead of a 200% tariff on all imported goods (tripling their prices), a sales tax would have to be 67% on all retail goods to finance $4 trillion in spending (our current level). If you start exempting things (like food) the rate will need to be higher. And as in the tariffs, sales would drop a lot when that tax rate hits so it would have to be higher than that.
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Zippyjuan again."

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Hmm,..but tariffs = bad for free trade.

    How about an amendment that income tax can not exceed more than 10% of income? Although I want a zero income tax I know its unrealistic to expect it.
    I'm ok with tariffs.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Actually with higher tariffs, imports should fall so the tariff rates will have to be even still higher to raise the same amount of revenues. You are right, you probably can't raise enough money at current spending levels via tariffs.
    Cutting spending isn't on your table, I see.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    How does an across the board tariff do that?
    It forces Americans to start producing more, and without an income tax to punish them for that, the beast begins to starve. Tragedy.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

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