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Thread: Trump to declare national emergency for border wall after signing spending bill

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I think he is going to pull the rug out from under them and refuse to sign the bill after making them think he was going to.

    What do you think?
    Nope. His game plan all along was to gather strength, and get his way.
    He will not shut down the government now. All he wanted was the wall.
    He didn't care how he got it, but he knew to get it, he had to set up the optics first.

    And to a ton of people that hate him, aka government workers... they feel a sigh of relief.
    They may still hate him, but, they still feel like it's not the end of the world, "just give him the damn $8 B" they think, "I care about him not getting his stupid wall, because I hate him, but I don't care enough to risk my job"

    If Nancy fights him, and they are again furloughed, and that axe hangs above their head, they turn on Nancy. They will not blame Trump. She knows it, he knows it, they all know it. His so-called surrender to "re-open the government" was his final move. Although, he can still use the threat again, if he does, it is new issue, and he gets blame again. But, clearly, the deal is done.

    Nancy showed resistance, Trump ran roughshod over her, therefore, not her fault... .. the ol', "I know you think it's unfair, but that's what the regionals told me" schtick.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Nope. His game plan all along was to gather strength, and get his way.
    He will not shut down the government now. All he wanted was the wall.
    He didn't care how he got it, but he knew to get it, he had to set up the optics first.

    And to a ton of people that hate him, aka government workers... they feel a sigh of relief.
    They may still hate him, but, they still feel like it's not the end of the world, "just give him the damn $8 B" they think, "I care about him not getting his stupid wall, because I hate him, but I don't care enough to risk my job"

    If Nancy fights him, and they are again furloughed, and that axe hangs above their head, they turn on Nancy. They will not blame Trump. She knows it, he knows it, they all know it. His so-called surrender to "re-open the government" was his final move. Although, he can still use the threat again, if he does, it is new issue, and he gets blame again. But, clearly, the deal is done.

    Nancy showed resistance, Trump ran roughshod over her, therefore, not her fault... .. the ol', "I know you think it's unfair, but that's what the regionals told me" schtick.
    The only problem with that is all of the garbage in the bill, if he signs it it will be a victory for Nancy even if he builds the wall, especially since he can build the wall without it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The only problem with that is all of the garbage in the bill, if he signs it it will be a victory for Nancy even if he builds the wall, especially since he can build the wall without it.
    No, he can't build it without Nancy getting something.
    He isn't stupid, he knows he has to work with the Democrats.
    He knows about deals, he knows about power, leverage, and in the end, everybody getting what they want.
    So yes, he has to give Nancy her "victory", to get that wall. He knew that all along.
    He doesn't care about all that pork. Government is gonna government.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    No, he can't build it without Nancy getting something.
    He isn't stupid, he knows he has to work with the Democrats.
    He knows about deals, he knows about power, leverage, and in the end, everybody getting what they want.
    So yes, he has to give Nancy her "victory", to get that wall. He knew that all along.
    He doesn't care about all that pork. Government is gonna government.
    It's not just pork, there are things in there to give partial amnesty to some illegals and to provide more resources the give them help and handouts to facilitate the invasion etc.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The government won't let us do the job ourselves and stopping invasions is one of the basic legitimate jobs government is supposed to do for everyone else who can't necessarily drop their other obligations and go to the border.

    Division of labor is the basis of civilization.
    If they shut down, who knows, you might be allowed to establish and enforce Property Rights. He's signing that, isn't he?

    Do you think the Poles had time to consider the division of labor whilst being invaded?

    For the government to restrict and evict people, it must be a societal panopticon.You're welcoming RealID and facial recognition, not to mention Constitutional free zones where they Backscatter everyone, steal property and molest people, sometimes raping them. Not even mentioning the robbery or theft through inflation the ineffective boondoggle is going to cost.
    ďThe nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.Ē --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    If they shut down, who knows, you might be allowed to establish and enforce Property Rights. He's signing that, isn't he?

    Do you think the Poles had time to consider the division of labor whilst being invaded?
    You first, let me know how it goes when you try to personally repel the invaders, the Poles didn't have their own government against them.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    For the government to restrict and evict people, it must be a societal panopticon.You're welcoming RealID and facial recognition, not to mention Constitutional free zones where they Backscatter everyone, steal property and molest people, sometimes raping them. Not even mentioning the robbery or theft through inflation the ineffective boondoggle is going to cost.
    I'm not welcoming those and they are not required to secure the border and control immigration.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You first, let me know how it goes when you try to personally repel the invaders, the Poles didn't have their own government against them.
    While the government does love their monopoly on violence there are private groups that do patrol the border, albeit with some interference from the professionals.

    Are you on the southwest?

    I'm not welcoming those and they are not required to secure the border and control immigration.
    I need painting done, going to hire the cheapest and most proficient one. Can I hire who I want to or do they need to be licensed and everified? Is paying cash okay in your vision of America?

    In other words, do you support I-9s?
    ďThe nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.Ē --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    While the government does love their monopoly on violence there are private groups that do patrol the border, albeit with some interference from the professionals.
    I know but their impact is minimal, if they ever grew large enough to actually repel the invaders, the government would crack down hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Are you on the southwest?
    No, My family used to live in Arizona but I now live far from the border.


    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    I need painting done, going to hire the cheapest and most proficient one. Can I hire who I want to or do they need to be licensed and everified? Is paying cash okay in your vision of America?

    In other words, do you support I-9s?
    I do not support mandatory e-verify and paying in cash is just fine with me, requiring corporations to get I-9s is a different question because corporations get special benefits but it would probably be best to get rid of those AFTER we have stopped the invasion and expelled those invaders that are already here.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #69
    If Trump doesn't sign, will the veto-proof majorities hold?

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    If Trump doesn't sign, will the veto-proof majorities hold?
    A good question.

    If Trump knows they will then he will probably sign in order to avoid the perception of defeat that would come from being overridden.
    If they won't then he may not sign.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    A good question.

    If Trump knows they will then he will probably sign in order to avoid the perception of defeat that would come from being overridden.
    If they won't then he may not sign.
    ďIf the president were to veto it, we would sustain his veto,Ē Brooks said. ďI would certainly hope that the president will veto because itís really bad for America. Whether he will or not, I canít say.Ē

    ...Brooks again urged the president to veto the bill, even if his veto is overturned:

    If President Trump can hear my voice, I ask him to veto it. If heís going to get run over, let him be run over after having fought the good fight. Donít agree to bad legislation. It might take him a few months, but in my judgement, give it three or four months of passage, and heís going to be very upset that this legislation passed just like that out of control spending bill in the spring of 2018. He felt coerced into signing it, he did sign it, and he regretted it shortly there after. And I hope he learns from the mistake that was made. [Emphasis added]

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...spending-bill/

  14. #72
    We are getting murdered with this bill. This is a Destroy America bill, nothing less.

    Trump swore to never again do a spending bill like last year. This year is 100x worse.

    One has to wonder whether Trump is compromised at this point. He's clearly not stupid, so is he compromised? That is the only answer for why he would sign this.



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If they could do that they would have done it already, no new precedent is being set.
    Has a national emergency of this sort been declared before?

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    One has to wonder whether Trump is compromised at this point. He's clearly not stupid, so is he compromised? That is the only answer for why he would sign this.
    Or he never stood for what you thought in the first place and his promises are and always have been utterly empty?

    The word "compromise" implies some resolute stand previously taken that could be compromised.

  18. #75
    lol he's not going to veto this.

  19. #76
    If Hillary was prez and Trump never once brought up the wall during the campaign, do you think out border would be more secure, given that Democrats wouldn't be trying to destroy it explicitly in these bills?

  20. #77
    Looking at who Trump has surrounded himself with and appointed, it looks Trump supporters have been sold a neo-conservative bill of goods. Seriously how can anyone not see this? Cognitive dissonance? Partial list off the top of my head.

    Mike Pence
    John Bolton
    Rudy Giuliani
    James Woolsey
    Nikki Haley
    Mike Pompeo
    Samantha Ravitch
    Elliott Abrams
    H.R. McMaster
    James Mattis
    John Kelly
    Brett Kavanaugh
    ETA: William Barr
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    Looking at who Trump has surrounded himself with and appointed, it looks Trump supporters have been sold a neo-conservative bill of goods. Seriously how can anyone not see this? Cognitive dissonance? Partial list off the top of my head.

    Mike Pence
    John Bolton
    Rudy Giuliani
    James Woolsey
    Nikki Haley
    Mike Pompeo
    Samantha Ravitch
    Elliott Abrams
    H.R. McMaster
    James Mattis
    John Kelly
    Brett Kavanaugh
    ETA: William Barr

    Multi-Dimensional Dark Matter Wormhole Chess.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    Looking at who Trump has surrounded himself with and appointed, it looks Trump supporters have been sold a neo-conservative bill of goods.
    Generally speaking Trump supporters are Limbaugh and Hannity fans who have never had a problem with neo-conservatism. For most of them, that list of names is not a bill of goods, but a reassurance that the parts about Trump that scared them a little weren't so bad after all.

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    Remember the basics. Deficit spending=always bad.
    Fixed.

    Whether spending is deficit spending or not is unimportant. Government spending is government spending, which is bad. Raising more revenue so that it's not deficit spending wouldn't make it less bad.



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  25. #81
    I don't know if anyone has posted the roll-calls on this ombibus yet. But here they are. In the House it's mainly Democrats who voted for it and Republicans who voted against it. In the Senate there were only 16 nay votes in total, only 11 of which were Republicans. The Senate Dems who opposed it were mainly the ones running for President.

    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/116-2019/h87
    https://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...n=1&vote=00026

  26. #82
    LIVE: President Donald Trump DECLARES National Emergency and Signs Funding Bill

    "The Patriarch"

    willie with tan lines: enjoy the shots and the woman
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The foreigners will take 100% of your income and then your life.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    Looking at who Trump has surrounded himself with and appointed, it looks Trump supporters have been sold a neo-conservative bill of goods. Seriously how can anyone not see this? Cognitive dissonance? Partial list off the top of my head.

    Mike Pence
    John Bolton
    Rudy Giuliani
    James Woolsey
    Nikki Haley
    Mike Pompeo
    Samantha Ravitch
    Elliott Abrams
    H.R. McMaster
    James Mattis
    John Kelly
    Brett Kavanaugh
    ETA: William Barr
    Some people say that Rand is also on the list. So maybe the list is not all that bad
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    LIVE: President Donald Trump DECLARES National Emergency and Signs Funding Bill


    And here we go again. I can't wait for the next round of delusional excuses. At least we'll get some entertainment value out of all this.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  29. #85
    For the Magatarians


    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.

  30. #86
    Couldn't be more simple.




    (Cue the SS Troll to tell us how Ron Paul is wrong again)
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    For the Magatarians



    ROTFLMAO! " MAGAtarians! Brilliant.

    "You must spread some Reputation around..."
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Couldn't be more simple.




    (Cue the SS Troll to tell us how Ron Paul is wrong again)

    Haven't you been listening? Swordy only disagrees with Ron on a "few" things. In this case, Ron is probably being unduely influenced by that commie sympathiser Daniel McAdams, cause, like, everybody knows Ron is so wimpy and weak-willed that he can't possibly be thinking for himself in those instances where Swordy disagrees with him. Get with the program, man.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Couldn't be more simple.



    ... if just 1 or 2 of those things could happen... would solve alotta problems.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  35. #90
    it's time to repel the f***king invasion

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