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Thread: Real Reason for Venezuelan Coup - The Song Remains the Same

  1. #1

    Real Reason for Venezuelan Coup - The Song Remains the Same

    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." - Thomas Jefferson

    "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds" - Sam Adams



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  3. #2
    yawn....

    Of course it's not at all likely that the population is tired of not having food and medicine, and that those of us paying attention saw this shaping up almost a decade ago.

    It's obviously a conspiracy to take their oil, like we took oil in all those other countries.

    Since you're up to speed on all of it, which sanctions specifically drove them to this
    Last edited by angelatc; 02-09-2019 at 11:02 AM.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    yawn....
    Wake up it’s noon.

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Of course it's not at all likely that the population is tired of not having food and medicine, and that those of us paying attention saw this shaping up almost a decade ago.
    Your grasp of the situation is sophomoric at best. The population is “tired” of not having food and medicine due to US sanctions so they blame their current president who was just re-elected and choose a new president, WITHOUT elections, backed by the country responsible for the sanctions in the first place?

    You saw this happening a decade ago? Oh you mean when the US tried to overthrow Chavez in 2002?

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    It's obviously a conspiracy to take their oil, like we took oil in all those other countries.
    What does the Petrodollar have to do with taking oil? You need to keep up.

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Since you're up to speed on all of it, which sanctions specifically drove them to this
    Which drove them to abandon the USD? I don’t know, maybe the US imposed ones that blockaded the Venezuelan economy and caused hyperinflation?

    https://www.rt.com/news/441448-venez...llar-currency/

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    Wake up it’s noon.
    Oh, she's immune to the fact that have oil -> start taking something besides dollars for the oil -> have sanctions and unrest and hear sabres rattling is an inescapable pattern. She was properly vaccinated by the MSM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Only Q or a civil war will save us

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post

    Which drove them to abandon the USD? I don’t know, maybe the US imposed ones that blockaded the Venezuelan economy and caused hyperinflation?

    https://www.rt.com/news/441448-venez...llar-currency/
    The thing is, those sanctions didn't exist until a couple of weeks ago. Your article is dated 2017, which is why I asked you to show me the specific sanctions.

    Can you show me the specific sanctions that were in effect then, please?
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The thing is, those sanctions didn't exist until a couple of weeks ago. Your article is dated 2017, which is why I asked you to show me the specific sanctions.

    Can you show me the specific sanctions that were in effect then, please?
    Do you read the RT article? Obviously not.

    “Last year, the US imposed sanctions prohibiting trading new debt and equity issued by the Venezuelan government and state oil company, PDVSA. The Department of Treasury also introduced several rounds of restrictions againt Venezuelan top government officials. Maduro was among those blacklisted and called it “an honor.”

    The US pressure has contributed to the severe social and economic crisis in Venezuela in recent years as it was hit by hyperinflation, the devaluation of the national currency and a shortage of basic necessities.

    The harsh situation forced more than 2.3 million to people leave the country this summer in search of better life in Colombia, Ecuador, Peru and Brazil, according to the UN.“

    For A brief history of US sanctions in Venezuela which, like I said, date back to the early days of Chavez read this: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf
    Last edited by Gumba of Liberty; 02-09-2019 at 12:46 PM.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    Do you read the RT article? Obviously not.

    “Last year, the US imposed sanctions prohibiting trading new debt and equity issued by the Venezuelan government and state oil company, PDVSA. The Department of Treasury also introduced several rounds of restrictions againt Venezuelan top government officials. Maduro was among those blacklisted and called it “an honor.”

    The US pressure has contributed to the severe social and economic crisis in Venezuela in recent years as it was hit by hyperinflation, the devaluation of the national currency and a shortage of basic necessities.

    The harsh situation forced more than 2.3 million to people leave the country this summer in search of better life in Colombia, Ecuador, Peru and Brazil, according to the UN.“

    For A brief history of US sanctions in Venezuela which, like I said, date back to the early days of Chavez read this: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf
    Their hyperinflation only started last year?

    LOL
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Their hyperinflation only started last year?

    LOL
    And he can't answer the question . Another person that is now suddenly woke. Great.

    But here's what the document says:

    ...the United States has prohibited all U.S. commercial arms sales and retransfers to Venezuela since 2006.

    ...2008, the Treasury Department imposed sanctions (asset freezing and prohibitions on transactions) on two
    individuals and two travel agencies

    ...economic sanctions on at least 22 individuals

    ... Treasury Department has imposed sanctions on 65 Venezuelans

    ... Treasury Department froze the assets of seven Venezuelans

    ... , the Treasury Department sanctioned an additional 58 Venezuelan government and military officials from May 2017 to September 2018

    There are more post 2017, but these are what's mentioned in his source. So what sanctions meant we can't sell them food or medicine? (Hint - there aren't any.) And what sanctions meant that none of their allies could sell them anything either?
    Last edited by angelatc; 02-09-2019 at 04:32 PM.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    And he can't answer the question . Another person that is now suddenly woke. Great.
    This is what you get when you let the leftarians and anarchists into the movement, they should have been held at arms length as temporary allies.

    Welcome to AnarchoCommunistForums.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Venezuela: The US’s 68th Regime Change Disaster

    The US government has been opposed to Venezuela’s socialist revolution since the time Hugo Chavez was elected in 1998. Unbeknownst to most Americans, Chavez was well loved by poor and working class Venezuelans for his extraordinary array of social programs that lifted millions out of poverty. Between 1996 and 2010, the level of extreme poverty plummeted from 40% to 7%. The government also substantially improved healthcare and education, cutting infant mortality by half, reducing the malnutrition rate from 21% to 5% of the population and eliminating illiteracy. These changes gave Venezuela the lowest level of inequality in the region, based on its Gini coefficient.

    Since Chavez’ death in 2013, Venezuela has descended into an economic crisis stemming from a combination of government mismanagement, corruption, sabotage and the precipitous fall in the price of oil. The oil industry provides 95% of Venezuela’s exports, so the first thing Venezuela needed when prices crashed in 2014 was international financing to cover huge shortfalls in the budgets of both the government and the national oil company. The strategic objective of US sanctions is to exacerbate the economic crisis by denying Venezuela access to the U.S.-dominated international financial system to roll over existing debt and obtain new financing.

    The blocking of Citgo’s funds in the US also deprives Venezuela of a billion dollars per year in revenue that it previously received from the export, refining and retail sale of gasoline to American drivers. Canadian economist Joe Emersberger has calculated that the new sanctions Trump unleashed in 2017 cost Venezuela $6 billion in just their first year. In sum, US sanctions are designed to “make the economy scream” in Venezuela, exactly as President Nixon described the goal of US sanctions against Chile after its people elected Salvador Allende in 1970.

    Alfred De Zayas visited Venezuela as a UN Rapporteur in 2017 and wrote an in-depth report for the UN. He criticized Venezuela’s dependence on oil, poor governance and corruption, but he found that “economic warfare” by the US and its allies were seriously exacerbating the crisis. “Modern-day economic sanctions and blockades are comparable with medieval sieges of towns,” De Zayas wrote. “Twenty-first century sanctions attempt to bring not just a town, but sovereign countries to their knees.” He recommended that the International Criminal Court should investigate US sanctions against Venezuela as crimes against humanity. In a recent interview with the Independent newspaper in the U.K., De Zayas reiterated that US sanctions are killing Venezuelans.

    Venezuela’s economy has shrunk by about half since 2014, the greatest contraction of a modern economy in peacetime. The World Health Organization (WHO) reported that the average Venezuelan lost an incredible 24 lb. in body weight in 2017.

    Mr. De Zayas’ successor as UN Rapporteur, Idriss Jazairy, issued a statement on January 31st, in which he condemned “coercion” by outside powers as a “violation of all norms of international law.” “Sanctions which can lead to starvation and medical shortages are not the answer to the crisis in Venezuela,” Mr. Jazairy said, “…precipitating an economic and humanitarian crisis…is not a foundation for the peaceful settlement of disputes.”

    While Venezuelans face poverty, preventable diseases, malnutrition and open threats of war by US officials, those same US officials and their corporate sponsors are looking at an almost irresistible gold mine if they can bring Venezuela to its knees: a fire sale of its oil industry to foreign oil companies and the privatization of many other sectors of its economy, from hydroelectric power plants to iron, aluminum and, yes, actual gold mines. This is not speculation. It is what the US’s new puppet, Juan Guaido, has reportedly promised his American backers if they can overthrow Venezuela’s elected government and install him in the presidential palace.

    Oil industry sources
    have reported that Guaido has “plans to introduce a new national hydrocarbons law that establishes flexible fiscal and contractual terms for projects adapted to oil prices and the oil investment cycle… A new hydrocarbons agency would be created to offer bidding rounds for projects in natural gas and conventional, heavy and extra-heavy crude.”

    The US government claims to be acting in the best interests of the Venezuelan people, but over 80 percent of Venezuelans, including many who don’t support Maduro, are opposed to the crippling economic sanctions, while 86% oppose US or international military intervention.

    https://original.antiwar.com/mbenjam...ange-disaster/
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Their hyperinflation only started last year?

    LOL
    I think you need to slow down when you read. Nowhere does it say hyperinflation started in 2018. And don’t give me this “left” libertarian nonsense. What is right wing about overthrowing foreign governments and making them “safe for democracy”? I’d love to hear your response. i’ll be waiting.

  14. #12
    Please try and listen to the first 10 minutes and understand how the "targeted sanctions" and designating Venezuela state a threat to national security can have unintended (or I should say intended) results of scaring away investment into the country.



    The goal of US economic sanction is it inflict economic pain on the people so that the would rise up and overthrow their govts. This is not and has never been about lessening the theft of Venezuelans riches.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    I think you need to slow down when you read. Nowhere does it say hyperinflation started in 2018. And don’t give me this “left” libertarian nonsense. What is right wing about overthrowing foreign governments and making them “safe for democracy”? I’d love to hear your response. i’ll be waiting.
    Who said the US is trying to make Venezuela safe for democracy?
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Please try and listen to the first 10 minutes and understand how the "targeted sanctions" and designating Venezuela state a threat to national security can have unintended (or I should say intended) results of scaring away investment into the country.



    The goal of US economic sanction is it inflict economic pain on the people so that the would rise up and overthrow their govts. This is not and has never been about lessening the theft of Venezuelans riches.


    Like China and Russia can't lend them money?

    The biggest threats to investment are the facts. Like, VZ has already defaulted on debt. And VZ has a habit of seizing / nationalizing industries.
    Last edited by angelatc; 02-09-2019 at 07:56 PM.
    *******

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumba of Liberty View Post
    I think you need to slow down when you read. Nowhere does it say hyperinflation started in 2018. And don’t give me this “left” libertarian nonsense. What is right wing about overthrowing foreign governments and making them “safe for democracy”? I’d love to hear your response. i’ll be waiting.
    I'm not in favor of overthrowing foreign governments and making them “safe for democracy”.
    I'm also not in favor of apologizing for communism and pretending that it isn't responsible for destroying Venezuela's economy.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Who said the US is trying to make Venezuela safe for democracy?
    Well they never have..

    But Violent Coups,, Overthrowing Legitimate governments.. and installing brutal Dictators is the US M.O..

    Just ask Juan.

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm not in favor of overthrowing foreign governments and making them “safe for democracy”.
    I'm also not in favor of apologizing for communism and pretending that it isn't responsible for destroying Venezuela's economy.
    We helped overthrow the legitimate government over 100 years ago.. and have supported Brutality there since,,,and opposed every Non US Puppet that has risen.

    History repeating.. Puppets for Oil. since it was found there.

    https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14263
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post


    Like China and Russia can't lend them money?

    The biggest threats to investment are the facts. Like, VZ has already defaulted on debt. And VZ has a habit of seizing / nationalizing industries.
    Its not just China and Russia, even ordinary Venezuelans who invest in the country but have accounts in US controlled states can get their assets stolen by the US govt. Sanctions like that have a ripple effect that makes investing in the country that much more risky. This is the point the guy in the video was trying to make.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.



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