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Thread: About that whole "Trump tax cut"....

  1. #1

    About that whole "Trump tax cut"....

    I remember many people touting the extra $20 or whatever they were getting in their paychecks after the "tax cut" passed and went into effect. Then a couple weeks ago, imagine my shocked face when a quick news blurb on the radio warned that some people would be in for a surprise when after completing their banker tribute forms...errr income tax returns they would owe instead of receiving the refunds they were used to. Rut roh.

    Fast forward to today and the first reports of the "Trump tax cut", IRS edition, are starting to roll in. And it's not pretty. Owing large amounts or receiving much smaller refunds.

    Anybody done the taxes yet? What was the result?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

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  3. #2
    Fake news.

    I'd say at least 80% of the country saved money, 99% of standard deduction filers saved money, and itemized deduction filers saved money (from non-leftist states). The itemized deduction filers in NY, CA, NJ, OR, HI got murdered (many have an effective tax rate between 50%-55%).

    If you are in a high-tax state and make a lot of money, nothing from the Trump cut can help you. The Federal government is not subsidizing the states' taxes anymore. That is a good thing.
    Last edited by kona; 02-07-2019 at 01:49 PM.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    Fake news.

    I'd say at least 80% of the country saved money, 99% of standard deduction filers saved money, and itemized deduction filers saved money (from non-leftist states). The itemized deduction filers in NY, CA, NJ, OR, HI got murdered (many have an effective tax rate between 50%-55%).

    If you are in a high-tax state and make a lot of money, nothing from the Trump cut can help you. The Federal government is not subsidizing the states' taxes anymore. That is a good thing.
    Fake news? I laid out the timeline and am now asking for the results.

    What were the results of your tax return Kona?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  5. #4

  6. #5
    Refunds may be smaller because withholdings were reduced- less money held out of your paychecks. People getting less (or owing more) now because they got more during the year. Plus some deductions were ended.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...hholding-trump

    Why millions of people are getting hit with a surprise tax bill this year

    An effort to make the tax bill look better ended up making it look worse.

    Americans who are accustomed to receiving an income tax refund tend to file their taxes early — often in late January or early February when all the paperwork becomes available — but this year many early filers are finding to their surprise that they actually owe money to the IRS.

    The new tax law does result in some people paying higher taxes (especially over the long term), but the specific issue here is tax refunds rather than total taxes paid. Whether you get a refund or owe extra to the IRS at filing time is a function not just of your total taxes owed, but also of how much tax is withheld from your paycheck by your employer on paydays. And the big story here is that as a result of the new tax law, the Treasury Department tweaked things so that on average taxpayers’ withholdings fell by more than their actual taxes owed.

    This was all explained in a Government Accountability Office report last summer, but it turns out that many people are not regular readers of GAO reports and did not take the GAO’s official advice to check their withholding status. The result? Surprise tax bills!

    Tax withholding, explained

    Income and payroll taxes are, in a theoretical sense, collected once a year in mid-April.

    In practice, however, the government has employers calculate how much tax their workers are likely to owe at the end of the year. Then each pay period, companies simply forward an appropriate amount of money directly to the IRS and pay you what’s left over. When you file your taxes at the beginning of the year, you compare the amount of taxes you owe to the amount of taxes you’ve already paid and get either a refund or a request to send more money. And historically, by design, most people — around 75 percent — get a refund.

    That’s because it’s a lot easier for the government to pay out refunds to people who overwithheld than to run around trying to collect cash from people who underwithheld.

    What’s more, when underwithholding does happen, it’s usually either because of an error or else a special situation like a person with a full-time job who also happened upon an unexpected bounty of freelance side-gigs. In fact the government hates underwithholding so much that if you primarily derive your income from freelance or self-employment work, they start charging you a financial penalty unless you pre-pay your taxes on a quarterly basis.

    This system was, in a fun historical irony, devised in part by Milton Friedman, the famous libertarian economist, who at the time was trying to help win World War II but who wound up being an unsung hero of the post-war welfare state. And the whole thing had been chugging along pretty peacefully until then-House Speaker Paul Ryan, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, and Trump decided to shake things up.

    How the tax law changed withholding

    The 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was largely focused on reducing taxes for rich business owners. People who are stand to inherit multi-million dollar estates got an enormous tax cut, as did people who own “small” businesses that generate millions of dollars in annual profits. And, of course, there was a big cut in the corporate income tax rate, with benefits largely flowing through to stock owners in a country where 80 percent of the value of the stock market is owned by the richest 10 percent of the population.

    But there were changes for middle-class workers, too.

    Most famously, TCJA either eliminated or curbed a whole bunch of popular tax deductions (including the home mortgage interest deduction and the state and local tax deduction) while also repealing a previously implemented phase-out of itemized deductions. Consequently, the value of most people’s tax deductions went down but some people got to deduct more. Then to compensate for these lost tax deductions, the Child Tax Credit got more generous and was also given to richer people and the standard deduction got much bigger. Individual tax rates, in turn, went down.

    In the aggregate, this means higher taxes for a few people but lower taxes for the vast majority of Americans. It also means that virtually everyone’s tax situation is a little bit different from before, often in complicated ways related to the ins and outs of lost and gained deductions and credits. So everyone’s withholdings had to be calculated anew.

    The bill was also extremely unpopular. But Republicans spent December 2017 assuring themselves that would change in February 2018 when the new withholdings began.

    “On January 1, Americans are going to wake up with a new tax code,” Ryan said. “On February 1, they are going to see withholdings go down, so they are going to see bigger paychecks.”
    It’s actually the case that in the long run TCJA will raise many working- and middle-class people’s taxes. To conform to budget reconciliation rules, Republicans made it so the nonregressive tax cuts largely expire after 10 years while the revenue-raisers and the business tax cuts are permanent. But while this is an important (and telling) part of the tax policy debate, it doesn’t represent anything that’s happening this winter. People hit with a surprise request to pay extra to the IRS may feel like Trump surprisingly raised their taxes, but in most cases that’s not what’s happening.
    More at link.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Fake news? I laid out the timeline and am now asking for the results.

    What were the results of your tax return Kona?
    Less taxes.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    Less taxes.
    Cool, I'm happy for you. Your particular situation does not equal "fake news" however.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  9. #8
    Revenue-neutral. I got out of it what I put into it.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Anybody done the taxes yet? What was the result?
    My first run through shows that I'll be paying over 4k less in 2018 than 2017. And I haven't even finished adding/listing all possible deductions. It was a bit of a shock; because quickbooks generally does a good job of estimating and I don't end up with much of a refund or owing much. This year it was way off.

    The QBI is huge for the self-employed middle class.
    Last edited by specsaregood; 02-07-2019 at 02:04 PM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    Wow crazy timing. Bad news if true!

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...-deduction-cap
    Trump can't change tax laws- Congress has to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Cool, I'm happy for you. Your particular situation does not equal "fake news" however.
    It is fake news that an overwhelmingly vast majority of Americans are not paying less taxes due to the tax cut.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    It is fake news that an overwhelmingly vast majority of Americans are not paying less taxes due to the tax cut.
    Writing your own headline then calling it fake news is pretty lame. Just sayin...

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Revenue-neutral. I got out of it what I put into it.
    Whaaa??? When did you start paying income taxes again? And even better question is WHY?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Trump can't change tax laws- Congress has to.
    I'm sure the House would have no problem passing this.

    You also pinpoint the error people make (and what the media glosses over) in that withholding laws changed, and tens of millions of people fill out new W-4s each year regardless. The paycheck math is totally different and the question becomes an apples to onions comparison. A larger or smaller refund/liability at the end of the year says nothing about whether you paid less/more taxes than last year.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post



    Whaaa??? When did you start paying income taxes again? And even better question is WHY?
    I got out what I paid in. ssshhhhhh.

    Edit: Unfortunately that will end this year as I am getting a regular job. Life requires it given my circumstances. It was a good run though.
    Last edited by phill4paul; 02-07-2019 at 02:13 PM.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    I'm sure the House would have no problem passing this.

    You also pinpoint the error people make (and what the media glosses over) in that withholding laws changed, and tens of millions of people fill out new W-4s each year regardless. The paycheck math is totally different and the question becomes an apples to onions comparison. A larger or smaller refund/liability at the end of the year says nothing about whether you paid less/more taxes than last year.
    But it is the number people notice the most.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Writing your own headline then calling it fake news is pretty lame. Just sayin...
    It's your headline, not mine.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    It's your headline, not mine.
    Pfft ok. "Overwhelmingly vast number of Americans" shows up nowhere in my OP. Some people does, however. You wrote a news headline in your mind then called your own imaginary headline fake news.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  21. #18
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyph.../#2b7973cac8ee

    IRS Offers Some Penalty Relief For Taxpayers Who Didn't Withhold Enough In 2018

    Last year, the General Accounting Office (GAO) warned that millions of taxpayers could owe more in taxes come tax time. Without proper planning (and a withholding checkup), those taxpayers could be surprised to find out that they not only owe taxes, but also underpayment penalties. To ease the burden on taxpayers, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) has advised that penalty relief may be available.

    Here’s what happened. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) introduced many changes beginning in 2018, including caps on state and local tax deductions, a zeroed-out personal exemption amount, and the elimination of reimbursed job expenses. Additionally, since Congress passed the law in December of 2017, new withholding tables were not available to employers until mid-January, and some employees didn’t see a switch in withholding until mid-February. (You can see the withholding tables here and find out more about updating your form W-4 here.)

    The combination of new rules, new withholding tables, and even new tax forms has been confusing, leading some tax professionals, including the American Institute of CPAs (AICPA), to call for relief from IRS. (You can read the letter from the AICPA, which downloads as a pdf, here.) The result? The IRS has advised that they will waive underpayment penalties (tax geeks will recognize these as section 6654 penalties) so long as withholding and estimated tax payments total at least 85% percent of the tax shown on the return for the 2018 taxable year.

    While we joke about writing big checks on Tax Day, taxpayers typically pay their taxes during the tax year through a combination of withholding and estimated payments made in four installments. The check to IRS at the end of the year accounts for any shortfall. In most cases, if you don’t pay—through that combination of withholding and estimated payments—at least 90% of the tax that you owe or 100% of the tax that you owed in the prior year (the percentage is 110% if your adjusted gross income on that return was at least $150,000), you may owe a penalty.

    Exceptions and waiver provisions apply (of course, since this is tax law). Most taxpayers know, for example, about the $1,000 rule: There’s generally no penalty if you owe less than $1,000 in tax. But in addition to those specific exceptions, the Secretary of the Treasury has authority to waive penalties under section 6654(e)(3)(A) if “by reason of casualty, disaster, or other unusual circumstances the imposition of such addition to tax would be against equity and good conscience.” For 2019, the “other unusual circumstances” involve the administration of the TCJA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  22. #19
    I don't know , but I can say that a tax cut is not at all what I was looking for.
    I really believed that we were going to 'gut' the IRS, nope we got a tax cut, wow,
    who can't raise our taxes next term and keep spying on us anyway....

  23. #20
    @devil21

    From your message...

    fair enough....tho i recall a previous thread where you indicated you started paying taxes again also
    Yeah, I was kinda being snarky there. I actually did work legit in 2018. Two months at the end. So, yeah, I did pay in. About $350.00. With EIC my return will be around $650. So, +$300 of others money. Thank you.
    It was a good run. 2011 was my last filing. But, circumstance and life has necessitated change. I've since switched to another job that will start soon that will net me $6 more per hour than this previous one within two years. So, yeah, I'm gonna be paying taxes. Bigly.

  24. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    I don't know , but I can say that a tax cut is not at all what I was looking for.
    I really believed that we were going to 'gut' the IRS, nope we got a tax cut, wow,
    who can't raise our taxes next term and keep spying on us anyway....
    Gut the IRS? Shirley you can't be serious.
    Citizen of Arizona
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    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Pfft ok. "Overwhelmingly vast number of Americans" shows up nowhere in my OP. Some people does, however. You wrote a news headline in your mind then called your own imaginary headline fake news.
    I have experience in this industry, it has nothing to do with news or headlines which I don't read to begin with.

    You did say some people but you used it to bash the cut when the reality is the only type of cut that can truly be a cut for every citizen in America is the ending of taxation completely. The complexity of the code makes uniform intentions/effects impossible. The Trump cuts helped ~90%, and would have even higher coverage if the establishment didn't gut it first.
    Last edited by kona; 02-07-2019 at 02:32 PM.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    I have experience in this industry, it has nothing to do with news or headlines which I don't read to begin with.

    You did say some people but you used it to bash the cut when the reality is the only type of that cut can truly be 100% be a cut for every citizen in America is the ending of taxation completely. The complexity of the code makes uniform intentions/effects impossible. The Trump cuts helped ~90%, and would have even higher coverage if the establishment didn't gut it first.
    Maybe just read what I wrote instead of reading what you thought I meant. Any way, I'm curious to see if your claim of 90% pans out over the course of the filing season, hence this thread.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  27. #24
    Half of all income tax filers last year owed no net US income taxes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  29. #25
    My taxes have gone down quite a bit, I live in CA but I rent.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  30. #26
    The "quick news blurb" on your radio was probably AP or something.

    MSM lies about Trump all the time.. surprised the OP hasn't figured that out yet.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    I remember many people touting the extra $20 or whatever they were getting in their paychecks after the "tax cut" passed and went into effect. Then a couple weeks ago, imagine my shocked face when a quick news blurb on the radio warned that some people would be in for a surprise when after completing their banker tribute forms...errr income tax returns they would owe instead of receiving the refunds they were used to. Rut roh.

    Fast forward to today and the first reports of the "Trump tax cut", IRS edition, are starting to roll in. And it's not pretty. Owing large amounts or receiving much smaller refunds.

    Anybody done the taxes yet? What was the result?
    It is very pretty, almost everyone is getting a cut and the high tax states aren't being subsidized by everyone else nearly as much.

    Your propaganda is pitiful.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

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    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

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    Alexis de Torqueville

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  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It is very pretty, almost everyone is getting a cut and the high tax states aren't being subsidized by everyone else nearly as much.

    Your propaganda is pitiful.
    Even the half of filers who didn't owe any taxes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The quality seems to have dropped significantly since I came here, I guess you get what you pay for.
    "There is always a tweet. That has become accepted fact in the Trump presidency: For every pronouncement the President makes, there is at least one tweet from his past that directly contradicts his current view." -CNN

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Even the half of filers who didn't owe any taxes?
    Have you ever heard of refundable credits?

    Besides that I was obviously referring to taxpayers.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Even the half of filers who didn't owe any taxes?
    What should they get?

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