Libertarian Party Endorses Illegal Immigration

[Swordsmyth]

That is sadly where our point of disagreement is.

I do. I see it as a clear and present danger, and hopefully present that fact in a calm and rational way, and not in a way indicating irrational fear.

The UniParty Marxist Super Majority government in California, directly caused by invading migrant hordes displacing and overwhelming native voters, is evidence of this.

Texas, Arizona and Florida are next.

Once that happens, you can dismiss even lip service to limited government representation at the federal level for 100 years or more.

Ender doesn't want to see it, it would be too uncomfortable and require him to adjust his ideals to compensate for practical reality.

Ender needs to be told this: “You want it to be one way. But it’s the other way.”

[Stratovarious]

Better check again. I didn’t neg you. I reserve that for trolls. Not just general ignoramuses.

Apologies , you're not Cap I guess, when I clicked on the 'neg' it lead here to this page,,,,:shrugs:

[Swordsmyth]

Apologies , you're not Cap I guess, when I clicked on the 'neg' it lead here to this page,,,,:shrugs:

The neg leads to the post negged when clicked on.

[Stratovarious]

A biased liberal ruling.

Bingo.

[Stratovarious]

The neg leads to the post negged when clicked on.

That's what I have experienced, it was cap
that did the negg.

[Stratovarious]

"as a general rule, it is not a crime for a removable alien to remain present in the United States." AZ vs US; 2012

This is just silly nonsense, you crash the border that is a crime, you stay here, not a crime.....lmao,
then we're not here to deport you for being here, but we are going to do so because you took up
residence here illegally. So there's an empty seat on the bus.

[Stratovarious]

US law does not say that.

Us Law does not say that we won't allow immigration of Cannibals,
really , it does not say that.

[r3volution 3.0]

Natural Rights apply to all people. Isn’t that what RPF forum advocates? Or has that changed?

Per the dominant ideology of the movement formerly known as liberty, the "rights of the nation" trump the rights of the individual.

So, yes, it's changed.

Hoppeanism that treats the state as an owner is the only brand of libertarianism that will survive into the middle of this century.

Hoppe's attempt at rationalizing immigration restrictions is barely coherent, and certainly not consistent with libertarianism.

That said, you're quite right about this "brand of libertarianism" being more popular than, well, libertarianism.

As usual, Shillsmyth doesn't understand the basics and kneejerk reacts.

Libertarians historically support immigration and open borders because the "legal" system (that creates "illegal" people) is an instrument of control against people who would otherwise be completely free to make their own decisions about how to live. The legal reality is that an "illegal immigrant" is a free man or free woman. A "legal citizen" is a captive resource and treated accordingly.

He understands; he knows that free immigration is a straightforward application of basic libertarian principles.

...he just doesn't care, since he isn't a libertarian: doesn't share those values.

It's funny to me that the statists in this thread keep calling me an anarchist. lol. It's as if anyone who doesn't want to grow government power in their favor must want absolute anarchy.

All anarchists oppose immigration restrictions; not all people who oppose immigration restrictions are anarchists.

This is obvious, but...

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Sinclair

[Pauls' Revere]

NOT. TRUE.

Ending incentives will indeed improve the economy & people will come here to WORK.

And a truly free people understand that liberty is the base for all people- it isn't dem foreigners that have stolen our freedom- it's ignorant Americans giving in to TPTB.

Agree.

I'm all for conditional immigration. Remove the incentives (welfare state) and do a background check to reduce criminals from entering. Also check for gnarly diseases, I don't want the Black death here or Ebola. Other than that, welcome to the USA.

[Swordsmyth]

Agree.

I'm all for conditional immigration. Remove the incentives (welfare state) and do a background check to reduce criminals from entering. Also check for gnarly diseases, I don't want the Black death here or Ebola. Other than that, welcome to the USA.

Unfortunately there is no medical test for communism which is a much more lethal and virulent disease than any of those.

[Pauls' Revere]

Unfortunately there is no medical test for communism which is a much more lethal and virulent disease than any of those.

Then its up to us (and others) to demonstrate the benefits of a free society. My line of thought had to change when I had that "aha" moment when I heard Dr. Paul.

[Superfluous Man]

Yes it does.

Please find the law that says that.

Claims like yours have been made before around here many times. Many times I have challenged those who make them to find the law. So far nobody has. If you can, you will be the first.

[devil21]

So many people have a fundamentally wrong (intentionally implanted) understanding of the situation in this country and particularly because they don't know the true history. This true history is taught to the overlords in the elite colleges, where the overlords always seem to originate from. They operate based on this history, not the spoon fed disinfo given to average folks in public schools and run-of-the-mill colleges.

REQUIRED READING
http://stopthecrime.net/docs/THE-GRE...-ADVENTURE.pdf

Once you read that and digest it, a lot more things will start to make a lot more sense. I had a conversation with an experienced police officer and when the question of "which constitution are you talking about?" came up, he was shocked that I actually knew the answer! Most is not what it seems.

[Swordsmyth]

Then its up to us (and others) to demonstrate the benefits of a free society. My line of thought had to change when I had that "aha" moment when I heard Dr. Paul.

We can't convert them faster than they come, that means they will take away our liberty and we have a right to limit them in order to prevent that.
We have a hard enough time trying to convert any of the natives who have at least been raised with lip service towards liberty.

[Swordsmyth]

Please find the law that says that.

Claims like yours have been made before around here many times. Many times I have challenged those who make them to find the law. So far nobody has. If you can, you will be the first.

I already told you and you cut that part off, there is a law against entering illegally and they are in violation of it as long as they are here just as a trespasser is a trespasser the entire time he is on my property.

[Pauls' Revere]

We can't convert them faster than they come, that means they will take away our liberty and we have a right to limit them in order to prevent that.
We have a hard enough time trying to convert any of the natives who have at least been raised with lip service towards liberty.

We can't restrict people depending on conversion rate nor decide how they should think.

[Swordsmyth]

We can't restrict people depending on conversion rate nor decide how they should think.

Yes we can, this country is for people who respect eachother's rights and we have a right to keep people out who will violate our rights.

[Pauls' Revere]

Yes we can, this country is for people who respect eachother's rights and we have a right to keep people out who will violate our rights.

How would you determine that?

[LibertyEagle]

Of course, I'm sure you're well aware that the founders would not have expanded the meaning of the word "invasion" to include the immigration of peaceful civilians, like you are doing.

You must either adopt a living document view of the Constitution, or else admit that it does not empower the federal government to limit immigration. Because interpreted according to its original meaning, it clearly does not.

BULL$#@!. Illegal aliens are killing U.S. citizens. If you don't think they would have stopped that and the caravan invasions, you are naive.

Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.

[Swordsmyth]

How would you determine that?

You look at the government and culture of the country they come from and you err on the side of letting fewer people in.
If you don't let many people in from cultures that have less of a belief in liberty then you will not likely let in enough to take power and violate the natives' rights.

[LibertyEagle]

Per the dominant ideology of the movement formerly known as liberty, the "rights of the nation" trump the rights of the individual.

So, yes, it's changed.



Hoppe's attempt at rationalizing immigration restrictions is barely coherent, and certainly not consistent with libertarianism.

That said, you're quite right about this "brand of libertarianism" being more popular than, well, libertarianism.



He understands; he knows that free immigration is a straightforward application of basic libertarian principles.

...he just doesn't care, since he isn't a libertarian: doesn't share those values.



All anarchists oppose immigration restrictions; not all people who oppose immigration restrictions are anarchists.

This is obvious, but...

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Sinclair

And some Communists, who have been trying very hard to shift people's views to world government, understand that open borders and flooding one's country with people who do not share the principals upon which this country was founded, will make it so very much easier to send what's left of this country over the edge.

[Stratovarious]

Don't forget that Weakening our resolve with hundreds of millions of 3rd world,
low iq, welfare loving, middle easterners , will make Genocide so much easier ,
the Globalist's plan is to reduce world population
by 80%.
If we let George Soros's 'OPEN SOCIETY' implement their plan, in 10
years there will be 700mil new 3rd world immigrants, 250-300mil native born,
the genocide with the help of NATO troops will begin, there will be
no Europeans left, you have no one left that believes in Freedom and sovereignty.
NWO is completely entrenched and operational in America.
A dumber population that will be infinitely easier to manipulate and control.
No recovery , Game Over.

[PAF]

And some Communists, who have been trying very hard to shift people's views to world government, understand that open borders and flooding one's country with people who do not share the principals upon which this country was founded, will make it so very much easier to send what's left of this country over the edge.

Both communists and libertarians need air to survive. People supporting the government taking/controlling other people’s property “for the greater good” is exactly the view the world government is pushing for.

[Sammy]

This is why I don't support the Libertarian Party

[PAF]

This is why I don't support the Libertarian Party

The wall prevents Circular Flow.

When the Reagan and Clinton administrations drastically increased border enforcement in response to “public opinion” they stopped Circular Flow. This increased the number of undocumented immigrants overstaying to increase by 248%.

The only thing a wall stops is actual solutions.

That is what Ron Paul meant when he said the wall won’t keep people out, it will keep people in.

Every time the government gets involved problems get worse.

The conversation should be to end any/all incentives and protecting Private Property Rights, both of which used to be the Republican platform.

Free Market solutions always work but neither party wants to talk about that. All they want is more government, more spending, and less freedom.

Anybody who supports that wall is a government owned slave, ie: statist.

[Sammy]

The wall prevents Circular Flow.

When the Reagan and Clinton administrations drastically increased border enforcement in response to “public opinion” they stopped Circular Flow. This increased the number of undocumented immigrants overstaying to increase by 248%.

The only thing a wall stops is actual solutions.

That is what Ron Paul meant when he said the wall won’t keep people out, it will keep people in.

Every time the government gets involved problems get worse.

The conversation should be to end any/all incentives and protecting Private Property Rights, both of which used to be the Republican platform.

Free Market solutions always work but neither party wants to talk about that. All they want is more government, more spending, and less freedom.

Anybody who supports that wall is a government owned slave, ie: statist.

Both Reagan & Clinton were weak on illegal immigration...I support Trump's wall but that isn't enough...Trump needs to deport all illegal immigrants & he needs to reduce
legal immigration...
I'm a statist? I'm a Small Government Paleo-Libertarian...Ron Paul opposes illegal immigration & birthright citizenship...
You Mainstream Libertarians are just laughable on Immigration...No wonder 1/3 of Ron Paul supporters are now supporting Trump...
You Guys are not losing because you are anti-war & anti welfare...You are losing because of the immigration issue...

[PAF]

Both Reagan & Clinton were weak on illegal immigration...I support Trump's wall but that isn't enough...Trump needs to deport all illegal immigrants & he needs to reduce
legal immigration...
I'm a statist? I'm a Small Government Paleo-Libertarian...Ron Paul opposes illegal immigration & birthright citizenship...
You Mainstream Libertarians are just laughable on Immigration...No wonder 1/3 of Ron Paul supporters are now supporting Trump...
You Guys are not losing because you are anti-war & anti welfare...You are losing because of the immigration issue...

This crisis (republican)... that crisis (democrat)... always a “crisis”. Never addressing the root cause or advocating Free Market solutions.

Carry on.

[kahless]

Both Reagan & Clinton were weak on illegal immigration...I support Trump's wall but that isn't enough...Trump needs to deport all illegal immigrants & he needs to reduce
legal immigration...
I'm a statist? I'm a Small Government Paleo-Libertarian...Ron Paul opposes illegal immigration & birthright citizenship...
You Mainstream Libertarians are just laughable on Immigration...No wonder 1/3 of Ron Paul supporters are now supporting Trump...
You Guys are not losing because you are anti-war & anti welfare...You are losing because of the immigration issue...

Probably by design. It has been pretty obvious letting in immigrants that have no concept of freedom ensures the death of freedom. Even long ago the founding fathers warned exactly of that problem.

The people that truly believe in achieving a more libertarian society in the US need to take over the LP. Otherwise it is just another tool of the globalist establishment to promote open borders to deny us a more libertarian like society in the US.

[PAF]

Probably by design. It has been pretty obvious letting in immigrants that have no concept of freedom ensures the death of freedom. Even long ago the founding fathers warned exactly of that problem.

The people that truly believe in achieving a more libertarian society in the US need to take over the LP. Otherwise it is just another tool of the globalist establishment to promote open borders to deny us a more libertarian like society in the US.

Historically people have migrated seeking work and freedom, trying to escape the clutches of government and oppressors.

Poor or working people don’t travel thousands of miles to just conquer or take over another country.

It is this government that forces “solutions”... taxation, centralized government and education, redistribution of wealth, encroachment of private property.

It is the goal of the establishment to have us rewrite and abandon our principles.

[Ender]

Historically people have migrated seeking work and freedom, trying to escape the clutches of government and oppressors.

Poor or working people don’t travel thousands of miles to just conquer or take over another country.

It is this government that forces “solutions”... taxation, centralized government and education, redistribution of wealth, encroachment of private property.

It is the goal of the establishment to have us rewrite and abandon our principles.

Yep.

The whole immigration thing is a ruse to keep everyone arguing and their eye off of the real things that are destroying freedom.