Venezuela Propaganda Debunked - People Are Against Coup

[angelatc]

The NAZIs nationalized a lot of industries.

Reading up on Venezuela....almost all of the "private" corporations in the country are owned by government officials or their kin. There are no bidding processes for government contracts.

[angelatc]

This is laughable - "those facts are cherry picked therefore Angela rejects those facts." .

No I have some work to do. I'll come back later and add nuances and corrections.

[angelatc]

I love your analogy, now can you tell me of a cookie baked anywhere in the world without a bit of the dog poop in it? Like I have always told you, every economy in the world is a mixed economy between socialism and capitalism. This is and has always been the case.

My dad worked in Saudi Arabia growing up and you would not imagine the kinda of wealth that exists in a socialist country. The king paid students to go to school and after school, they were given interest free loans to buy a house and he paid no income taxes. Also, they had free health care for every citizen. Natural resources can finance the hell out of alot of socialism.

Don't have to imagine it. I turned down a chance to live there because why the $#@! would I want to, but husband contracts there on a semi-regular basis.

A tiny country of borderline retarded people too lazy to work. They literally import slave labor.


Why the $#@! is this trolling allowed here?


.

[Krugminator2]

Electing a socialist for a president is not justification for a coup and tyranny. It's not the end of the world.

The future of Chileans (Allende),

Actually electing a Marxist is cause for a coup.

Allende took thousands of farms and businesses. Real wages dropped 80% under his reign. I am for executing anyone who enacts those policies and anyone who foments opposition. It wasn't wrong think. It was wrong doing and trying to perpetuate wrong doing. It is easy to sit back and criticize in hindsight.

Pinochet fighting back Marxists is an equivalent to if the Jews fought back against the Nazis. Nobody would have criticized that- in hindsight. Pinochet did what was necessary to win and keep his country from becoming a Soviet satellite state. Killing only 3000 Commies in a civil war and voluntarily giving up power in an election makes Pinochet one of the least evil dictators in history.

BTW, it worked. Chile is the freest and wealthiest country in South America now.

[Krugminator2]

The praising of Pinochet.

The first 9/11, where a military leader did not like the results of an election, so with the help of the CIA and the Chicago school, simply bombed the Chilean white house with fighter jets, and then claimed Allende committed suicide, and then disappeared thousands of young socialists and communists. Only when the mothers found out it happened to their sons, did they start to realize the massive terror Pinochet brought to Chile.

Never forget, 9-11-1973.

The punishment for commies should be death in a war. You can be a communist in a free society. You cannot be a communist and work in a government enacting communist policies. If given the choice between Pinochet and government confiscating the means of production, I am for a Pinochet killing as many people as it takes to win.

It is always bizarre this fixation from the left on Pinochet. He killed .01% of the people killed by Communist regimes almost all during a war and laid the foundation prosperity and elections.

Here is from FA Hayek.

More recently I have not been able to find a single person even in much maligned Chile who did not agree that personal freedom was much greater under Pinochet than it had been under Allende

I have seen in some South American countries the most extraordinary progress. … In that much condemned country, Chile, the restoration of only economic freedom and not political freedom has led to an economic recovery that is absolutely fantastic. … You can have economic freedom without political freedom, but you cannot have political freedom without economic freedom.

I visited Chile some time ago and I found that the country is being governed by members of Friedman's seminar! ... The economic system is working marvelously and the recovery is extraordinary. I did not see the system of political control in enough detail to have a serious opinion about it, but I can say that the economy is much freer in comparison to what it had been for a very long time. I also think that the way in which Chile is covered by the international press is scandalous.


I cannot help but protest in the strongest possible terms against the cartoon on page 3 of your publication of the 30th of December equating the present governments of Poland and Chile. It can only be explained by complete ignorance of the facts or by the systematically promoted socialist calumnies of the present situation in Chile, which I had not expected the F.A.Z. to fall for. I believe that all the participants in the Mont Pelerin Society conference held a few weeks ago in Chile would agree with me that you owe the Chilean government a humble apology for such twisting of the facts. Any Pole lucky enough to escape to Chile could consider himself fortunate.

[juleswin]

Don't have to imagine it. I turned down a chance to live there because why the $#@! would I want to, but husband contracts there on a semi-regular basis.

A tiny country of borderline retarded people too lazy to work. They literally import slave labor.


Why the $#@! is this trolling allowed here?


.

Population of Saudi Arabia is 32 million and the population of Venezuela is 31 million. If socialism can work in a population of borderline retarded, religious fanatic people, why cant it work in Venezuela?

Import slave labour? I can assure you that there are millions of people beating down their doors to come and partake in that slave labour. My dad made way more money working for that socialist hell hole of a country than he would have made working in the capitalist US of A. How is that even possible?

Someone can't win an argument so she resorts to calling me a troll. Your refusal to accept the reality that socialism is not always destined to fail when its not interfered with makes you look bad. So go ahead and call me a communist and a troll cos that's all you have left in your arsenal.

[juleswin]

And that's the only way Socialism gets funded. Off the backs of the free market.

Or natural resources.

[CaptUSA]

Or natural resources.

Nope.

You need the market to utilize those resources. Wealth is created through trade. Through the free market. You could be sitting on top of a mountain of gold, but it won't do you any good until you exchange it for something else of value. You can have a government mete the resources out to people, but there will be no wealth without a free market. They will all be equally poor, with a pocket full of gold that no one wants.

[RonZeplin]

[juleswin]

Nope.

You need the market to utilize those resources. Wealth is created through trade. Through the free market. You could be sitting on top of a mountain of gold, but it won't do you any good until you exchange it for something else of value. You can have a government mete the resources out to people, but there will be no wealth without a free market. They will all be equally poor, with a pocket full of gold that no one wants.

Todd said that the only way socialism can be funded is off the back of the free market and I said "or with natural resources". How is this wrong? yes the govt will be participating in the free market by selling the good it mined off the land it owns but its not off the backs of the free market. This is different from taking taxes from private people's income where I would agree that it is funding off the back of the free market.

[Swordsmyth]

Actually, they all did go quietly into the night. disappeared. Their mothers left wondering what happened, until it became so common that the mothers began to talk to each other, network, and then discover that their sons had been murdered by pinochet... ..for wrongthink. It is quite an interesting tale how the mothers networked, and eventually, exposed Pinochet's truly murderous ways.
Not murderous like swordsmyth uses the term to win an argument, but truly murderous.

And it is really interesting to see Swordsmyth et al call Maduro and Chavez "murderous regimes" because of... no murders..., yet praising Pinochet's infamous "helicopter rides" which were given to young men simply for refusing to change their minds about what they felt was the correct path for their country's future. The helicopter rides were not for people planning violence or any of that, it was simply for wrong think.

And really, they should not have gone quietly into the night. The elected a president. Then that was taken away from them through force of arms with the backing of a foreign nation.

Electing a socialist for a president is not justification for a coup and tyranny. It's not the end of the world. This happens time and time again, socialist elected in foreign country, US ends democracy, installs puppet. Just like the US is trying in Venezuela now by proclaiming some no-name dude as legit president.

The future of Chileans (Allende), Iranians (Mossadegh), Venezuela (Chavez), Syria (Assad) etc belong to the peoples of that country. Not you, swordsmyth, and all the others with opinions on places and times they know diddly squat about.

There are murders that were committed by the Chavez and Maduro Regimes, read up on the collectivos.

Communism is a conspiracy to rob, murder and enslave everyone else, it doesn't matter if 51% vote for it, the rest of the people have a right to overthrow a communist regime by force, after the regime has been overthrown the rebels can't continue to live in the same country as the communists that want to rob, murder and enslave them.
That leaves them with a limited number of options, they can banish all the communists to any other country that is stupid enough to take them, they can divide the territory and banish all of the communists to a new separate territory or they can kill the communists, if the communists resist either of the first two options then they will only have the third option.

We should stay out of Venezuela but the people of Venezuela should overthrow the communist regime whether it was democratically elected or not and then dispose of the communists in one of the three possible ways.

[Anti Globalist]

Stay. The. $#@!. Out. Of. Venezuela.

[RonZeplin]

Making of Juan Guaidó: How the US Regime Change Laboratory Created Venezuela’s Coup Leader

Juan Guaidó is the product of a decade-long project overseen by Washington’s elite regime change trainers. While posing as a champion of democracy, he has spent years at the forefront of a violent campaign of destabilization.

Before the fateful day of January 22, fewer than one in five Venezuelans had heard of Juan Guaidó. Only a few months ago, the 35-year-old was an obscure character in a politically marginal far-right group closely associated with gruesome acts of street violence. Even in his own party, Guaidó had been a mid-level figure in the opposition-dominated National Assembly, which is now held under contempt according to Venezuela’s constitution.

But after a single phone call from from US Vice President Mike Pence, Guaidó proclaimed himself as president of Venezuela. Anointed as the leader of his country by Washington, a previously unknown political bottom dweller was vaulted onto the international stage as the US-selected leader of the nation with the world’s largest oil reserves.

Echoing the Washington consensus, the New York Times editorial board hailed Guaidó as a “credible rival” to Maduro with a “refreshing style and vision of taking the country forward.” The Bloomberg News editorial board applauded him for seeking “restoration of democracy” and the Wall Street Journal declared him “a new democratic leader.” Meanwhile, Canada, numerous European nations, Israel, and the bloc of right-wing Latin American governments known as the Lima Group recognized Guaidó as the legitimate leader of Venezuela.

While Guaidó seemed to have materialized out of nowhere, he was, in fact, the product of more than a decade of assiduous grooming by the US government’s elite regime change factories. Alongside a cadre of right-wing student activists, Guaidó was cultivated to undermine Venezuela’s socialist-oriented government, destabilize the country, and one day seize power. Though he has been a minor figure in Venezuelan politics, he had spent years quietly demonstrated his worthiness in Washington’s halls of power.

“Juan Guaidó is a character that has been created for this circumstance,” Marco Teruggi, an Argentinian sociologist and leading chronicler of Venezuelan politics, told the Grayzone. “It’s the logic of a laboratory – Guaidó is like a mixture of several elements that create a character who, in all honesty, oscillates between laughable and worrying.”

Diego Sequera, a Venezuelan journalist and writer for the investigative outlet, Mision Verdad, agreed: “Guaidó is more popular outside Venezuela than inside, especially in the elite Ivy League and Washington circles,” Sequera remarked to the Grayzone, “He’s a known character there, is predictably right-wing, and is considered loyal to the program.”

[......]

Training from the “‘export-a-revolution’ group that sowed the seeds for a NUMBER of color revolutions”

On October 5, 2005, with Chavez’s popularity at its peak and his government planning sweeping socialist programs, five Venezuelan “student leaders” arrived in Belgrade, Serbia to begin training for an insurrection.

The students had arrived from Venezuela courtesy of the Center for Applied Non-Violent Action and Strategies, or CANVAS. This group is funded largely through the National Endowment for Democracy, a CIA cut-out that functions as the US government’s main arm of promoting regime change; and offshoots like the International Republican Institute and the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs. According to leaked internal emails from Stratfor, an intelligence firm known as the “shadow CIA,” “[CANVAS] may have also received CIA funding and training during the 1999/2000 anti-Milosevic struggle.”

CANVAS is a spinoff of Otpor, a Serbian protest group founded by Srdja Popovic in 1998 at the University of Belgrade. Otpor, which means “resistance” in Serbian, was the student group that gained international fame – and Hollywood-level promotion – by mobilizing the protests that eventually toppled Slobodan Milosevic. This small cell of regime change specialists was operating according to the theories of the late Gene Sharp, the so-called “Clausewitz of non-violent struggle.” Sharp had worked with a former Defense Intelligence Agency analyst, Col. Robert Helvey, to conceive a strategic blueprint that weaponized protest as a form of hybrid warfare, aiming it at states that resisted Washington’s unipolar domination.

Otpor was supported by the National Endowment for Democracy, USAID and Sharp’s Albert Einstein Institute. Sinisa Sikman, one of Otpor’s main trainers, once said the group even received direct CIA funding. According to a leaked email from a Stratfor staffer, after running Milosevic out of power, “the kids who ran OTPOR grew up, got suits and designed CANVAS… or in other words a ;export-a-revolution’ group that sowed the seeds for a NUMBER of color revolutions. They are still hooked into U.S. funding and basically go around the world trying to topple dictators and autocratic governments (ones that U.S. does not like .”

Stratfor revealed that CANVAS “turned its attention to Venezuela” in 2005 after training opposition movements that led pro-NATO regime change operations across Eastern Europe.

While monitoring the CANVAS training program, Stratfor outlined its insurrectionist agenda in strikingly blunt language: “Success is by no means guaranteed, and student movements are only at the beginning of what could be a years-long effort to trigger a revolution in Venezuela, but the trainers themselves are the people who cut their teeth on the ‘Butcher of the Balkans.’� They’ve got mad skills. When you see students at five Venezuelan universities hold simultaneous demonstrations, you will know that the training is over and the real work has begun.”

Birthing the “Generation 2007” regime change cadre

[.....]

While video of the protest is not available, many Venezuelans have identified Guaidó as one of its key participants. While the allegation is unconfirmed, it is certainly plausible; the bare-buttocks protesters were members of the Generation 2007 inner core that Guaidó belonged to, and were clad in their trademark Resistencia! Venezuela t-shirts, as seen below:



Is this the ass that Trump wants to install in Venezuela’s seat of power?

https://grayzoneproject.com/2019/01/29/the-making-of-juan-guaido-how-the-us-regime-change-laboratory-created-venezuelas-coup-leader/

[UWDude]

Couldn't agree more, except that the story goes like this, foreign country with natural resources a US/western company is exploiting

That's not real capitalism, that's crony capitalism.

I mean, that's not real communism, wait, I'm confused.

[Swordsmyth]

That's not real capitalism, that's crony capitalism.

I mean, that's not real communism, wait, I'm confused.

Let me clear it up for you:
Anything that isn't capitalism is socialism, crony capitalism is socialism for the elite.

[UWDude]

Is this the ass that Trump wants to install in Venezuela’s seat of power?

It's not like the people of Venezuela, a large minority, don't support these guys, they do.
They can not see US influence, they see Maduro, because Maduro is charisma-less.
He is nothing like Hugo.

I wouldn't doubt for a minute, Hugo picked Maduro, because Chavez drank lots of coffee, and loved to talk, and Maduro probably understood Chavez' ramblings better than anyone.

This sin't to say Chavez' ramblings were incoherent, or that Maduro was a sycophant. Neither. Maduro could just bounce with Chavez.

But Chavez missed Maduro had no charisma, when he pointed him as successor. He liked him as an idealist, not as an organized or charismatic leader.

Aló Presidente just wasn't the same without Hugo.

[RonZeplin]

It's not like the people of Venezuela, a large minority, don't support these guys, they do.
They can not see US influence, they see Maduro, because Maduro is charisma-less.

So if Nancy Peosi swore herself in as President, and Trudeau sent 5,000 Canadian Mounties to protect her, you'd be OK with that?

[UWDude]

So if Nancy Peosi swore herself in as President, and Trudeau sent 5,000 Canadian Mounties to protect her, you'd be OK with that?

So if aliens landed on the moon, and started hurling space weasels at us, you'd be OK with that?

[dannno]

Meanwhile in Venezuela..



"They're ticks, Bubbles, they're ticks."

[Occam's Banana]

So if Nancy Peosi swore herself in as President, and Trudeau sent 5,000 Canadian Mounties to protect her, you'd be OK with that?

So if aliens landed on the moon, and started hurling space weasels at us, you'd be OK with that?

Space weasels, si! Pelosi y Maduro, no!

[angelatc]

Population of Saudi Arabia is 32 million and the population of Venezuela is 31 million. If socialism can work in a population of borderline retarded, religious fanatic people, why cant it work in Venezuela?

I never said it worked.

[angelatc]

So if Nancy Peosi swore herself in as President, and Trudeau sent 5,000 Canadian Mounties to protect her, you'd be OK with that?

A much better analogy would be if after the last election, Trump just declared the House of Representatives no longer was an official body. Then he assembled a bunch of his rich supporters and declared they were now the governing body.

At that point, I suspect other nations would be recognizing Pelosi as the legitimate leader. Especially if it was written in their constitution.

Because that's exactly what Maduro did. And that's exactly who Guaidó is.

[angelatc]

A much better analogy would be if after the last election, Trump just declared the House of Representatives no longer was an official body. Then he assembled a bunch of his rich supporters and declared they were now the governing body.

At that point, I suspect other nations would be recognizing Pelosi as the legitimate leader. Especially if it was written in their constitution.

Because that's exactly what Maduro did. And that's exactly who Guaidó is.

i got negged for this, with 'proof' as the angry comment.

OK;

According to the Venezuelan constitution, the President of the Parliament is second in line to the presidency, behind the Vice President.

2010; Guaido elected to Venezuela's National Assembly (their parliament) as an alternate in the minority party.

2014: Guaido's mentor, head of the opposition party Leopoldo Lopez, is jailed and legally prohibited from running for office. (He is still in prison.)

2015: Opposition party wins majority of Parliament.

2015: Venezuela lame duck Parliament Stacks their version of SCOTUS with Maduro supporters.


2017: Maduro creates Constituent Assembly, consisting entirely of government supporters.


2017: Maduro strips parliament of power.


2019: Juan Guaidó elected president of their parliament, the National Assembly.

Hope this helps, @AZJoe

We don't have to like Guaido. He's a socialist, and his above-mentioned mentor isn't pure by any definition. But I like him more than Maduro because he's not Maduro. And he's only lobbying for an election, not a full term, because Maduro banned the opposition from the ballots in the last one.

[oyarde]

I have lived in Saud . Complete and total $#@!hole . I have not lived in North Korea but that might be the only thing worse .

[juleswin]

I never said it worked.

Lets just put it this way, the stores over there has just as many brands of toilet paper as an grocery store in the states. The country is not failing or close to it and they have a very very generous welfare state. Whatever they are doing, it is working for them.

So go ahead and keep denying the reality that socialism can work in certain conditions.

Also, I did see your post about people trolling RPF and spreading socialism. Just so you know, I am not a troll or a socialist. I am a person who like to test my political ideas by talking it out in debates and discussions.

[juleswin]

I have lived in Saud . Complete and total $#@!hole . I have not lived in North Korea but that might be the only thing worse .

Where in Saudi did u live?

[oyarde]

Where in Saudi did u live?

In the desert .There is one province they say that actually gets rainfall ( Asir )but I did not get to see it . I was always north of there .

[Swordsmyth]

Lets just put it this way, the stores over there has just as many brands of toilet paper as an grocery store in the states. The country is not failing or close to it and they have a very very generous welfare state. Whatever they are doing, it is working for them.

So go ahead and keep denying the reality that socialism can work in certain conditions.

Also, I did see your post about people trolling RPF and spreading socialism. Just so you know, I am not a troll or a socialist. I am a person who like to test my political ideas by talking it out in debates and discussions.

It won't last, sooner or later the oil money that buys them the "luxury" of socialism will not be enough.(sooner)
That is part of what happened to Venezuela.

[Swordsmyth]

i got negged for this, with 'proof' as the angry comment.

OK;

According to the Venezuelan constitution, the President of the Parliament is second in line to the presidency, behind the Vice President.

2010; Guaido elected to Venezuela's National Assembly (their parliament) as an alternate in the minority party.

2014: Guaido's mentor, head of the opposition party Leopoldo Lopez, is jailed and legally prohibited from running for office. (He is still in prison.)

2015: Opposition party wins majority of Parliament.

2015: Venezuela lame duck Parliament Stacks their version of SCOTUS with Maduro supporters.


2017: Maduro creates Constituent Assembly, consisting entirely of government supporters.


2017: Maduro strips parliament of power.


2019: Juan Guaidó elected president of their parliament, the National Assembly.

Hope this helps, @AZJoe

We don't have to like Guaido. He's a socialist, and his above-mentioned mentor isn't pure by any definition. But I like him more than Maduro because he's not Maduro. And he's only lobbying for an election, not a full term, because Maduro banned the opposition from the ballots in the last one.

You will now be told that none of that ever happened, it is all lies.

[angelatc]

Lets just put it this way, the stores over there has just as many brands of toilet paper as an grocery store in the states. .

My husband works in retail, and I can assure everyone this is not true.

No non-Saudi is allowed to own a business. Foreign nationals pay Saudis just to be listed as a partner. Saudi law dictates that every employer must have a certain percentage of Saudis employed, so businesses hire phantom Saudi workers - people who don't actually have a physical presence or any responsibility except for being paid. They literally have to import workers to get anything done. And of course the workers who are brought in can't afford the high price of living there, so they live 30-40 people to a room. None of them are eligible for any of the free stuff the Royal Family bestows upon the citizens of the Kingdom.

You can't be a Saudi. You can't apply for citizenship. You can't marry a Saudi and become a Saudi. If you marry a Saudi, your children will not be Saudi.

They have an over-inflated sense of worth. They won't do any job which they feel is beneath them, which is most jobs. They have no skills, no need to better themselves. As a society are lazy, uneducated and obese.

The Royal Family is generous, but they are destroying their society.

Much like you want to destroy ours.