Trump Takes Aim At California Emissions Laws

[Swordsmyth]

President Trump’s efforts to change California’s longstanding, but stringent low carbon fuel standards could get even tougher. A three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday unanimously upheld the state’s 2015 low carbon fuel standard requiring fuel producers to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
The court’s decision comes after state officials recently amended the standard to mandate a 20 percent reduction by 2030 in the carbon output of fuels used for transportation in California. The court had rejected a similar challenge last year, while on Friday said that California had attempted to address a vitally important environmental issue. The court added that California can seek to reduce the harms caused by fuels sold within its borders, regardless of where it was produced.
Fuel producers' counterclaims
Fuel and corn-ethanol producers have been arguing that the standard discriminates against some producers, and also claim that it discriminates against out-of-state crude oil and ethanol, and thus violates the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. Opponents also claimed federal government regulation should prevent California from setting its own standards.
Last year, the Trump administration began efforts to revoke California’s authority to regulate automobile greenhouse gas emissions -- including its mandate for electric-car sales -- in a proposed revision of Obama-era standards, Bloomberg reported at the time. Trump’s proposal would also stop federal rules to boost fuel efficiency into the next decade. Instead, it would cap federal fuel economy requirements at the 2020 level, which under federal law must be at least a 35-mile-per-gallon fleet average, rather than letting them rise to roughly 50 mpg by 2025 as envisioned in the Obama plan, according to reports.

The EPA is claiming that California's right (and the small group of other states that have adopted similar standards) to its decades' long emission laws raises the costs for automakers that have to comply with different standards in different states. The agency is seeking what it calls a “50 state solution.”

More at: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...ions-Laws.html

[acptulsa]

The EPA is claiming that California's right (and the small group of other states that have adopted similar standards) to its decades' long emission laws raises the costs for automakers that have to comply with different standards in different states. The agency is seeking what it calls a “50 state solution.”

But if you try to tell a prog the EPA exists to protect corporations...

[Zippyjuan]

How would this decision impact state's rights?

[idiom]

Stop protecting corn farmers ffs. If they can't compete, they can't compete.

[acptulsa]

How would this decision impact state's rights?

I'd say it has about as much respect for the Tenth Amendment as you do.

[Schifference]

Do not sell new automobiles in CA. Put the problem on the residents of the state. Let them go out of state to purchase their vehicles and try to get them approved or just start walking, biking, or utilize public transportation.

[Zippyjuan]

Do not sell new automobiles in CA. Put the problem on the residents of the state. Let them go out of state to purchase their vehicles and try to get them approved or just start walking, biking, or utilize public transportation.

Like WalMart making suppliers give them better deals than other competitors. Just don't sell to WalMart and earn a higher profit margin. But WalMart and California are too big to say you won't do business with them. Two million car and truck sales a year in the state out of 17 million in the country.

[acptulsa]

Do not sell new automobiles in CA. Put the problem on the residents of the state. Let them go out of state to purchase their vehicles and try to get them approved or just start walking, biking, or utilize public transportation.

Good luck with that.

Outside the U.S. you'd be hard-pressed to find a nation with a bigger car market than California.

[Schifference]

When liquor stores were closed on Sundays they sold the same amount of liquor as when they are open on Sundays. People just stocked up because they knew the store would be closed. If auto manufacturers announced that they would no longer sell new automobiles in CA then people would panic. Heck some court would probably mandate that they had to sell automobiles in CA. Point is stop and they will still want the cars. Then the people wanting the cars would get legislators to ease up their regulations.

[Stratovarious]

Good luck with that.

Outside the U.S. you'd be hard-pressed to find a nation with a bigger car market than California.

California is the reason Suzuki GSXR's have exhaust pipes the size of Al Gore's head, I mean fgn
huge!

[Stratovarious]

Stop protecting corn farmers ffs. If they can't compete, they can't compete.

I hate to ever have to screw up my engine with ethanol.
Any crop based fuel puts a burden on Food prices and depletes the soil,
the impact today is not big, but if they were to really get serious with it
we're looking at a disaster.
Ethanol and any crop based fuel is a super lose, lose.

[Peace Piper]

I hate to ever have to screw up my engine with ethanol.
Any crop based fuel puts a burden on Food prices and depletes the soil,
the impact today is not big, but if they were to really get serious with it
we're looking at a disaster.
Ethanol and any crop based fuel is a super lose, lose.

False. Doesn't anyone do any basic research anymore before they spout a bunch of nonsense?


Six typical Brazilian flex-fuel models from several car makers, popularly called "flex" cars, that run on any blend of hydrous ethanol (E100) and gasoline (E20 to E25).

Brazil is considered to have the world's first sustainable biofuels economy and the biofuel industry leader,[3][4][5][6] a policy model for other countries; and its sugarcane ethanol "the most successful alternative fuel to date."[7] However, some authors consider that the successful Brazilian ethanol model is sustainable only in Brazil due to its advanced agri-industrial technology and its enormous amount of arable land available;[7] while according to other authors it is a solution only for some countries in the tropical zone of Latin America, the Caribbean, and Africa.[8][9][10]

Brazil’s 40-year-old ethanol fuel program is based on the most efficient agricultural technology for sugarcane cultivation in the world,[11] uses modern equipment and cheap sugar cane as feedstock, the residual cane-waste (bagasse) is used to produce heat and power, which results in a very competitive price and also in a high energy balance (output energy/input energy), which varies from 8.3 for average conditions to 10.2 for best practice production.[5][12] In 2010, the U.S. EPA designated Brazilian sugarcane ethanol as an advanced biofuel due to its 61% reduction of total life cycle greenhouse gas emissions, including direct indirect land use change emissions.

There are no longer any light vehicles in Brazil running on pure gasoline. .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

Instead of sugar cane, the US could use Hemp, especially now that The Donald has legalized its production



Nissan SOFC fuel cell vehicle

[Stratovarious]

False. Doesn't anyone do any basic research anymore before they spout a bunch of nonsense?


Six typical Brazilian flex-fuel models from several car makers, popularly called "flex" cars, that run on any blend of hydrous ethanol (E100) and gasoline (E20 to E25).

Brazil is considered to have the world's first sustainable biofuels economy and the biofuel industry leader,[3][4][5][6] a policy model for other countries; and its sugarcane ethanol "the most successful alternative fuel to date."[7] However, some authors consider that the successful Brazilian ethanol model is sustainable only in Brazil due to its advanced agri-industrial technology and its enormous amount of arable land available;[7] while according to other authors it is a solution only for some countries in the tropical zone of Latin America, the Caribbean, and Africa.[8][9][10]

Brazil’s 40-year-old ethanol fuel program is based on the most efficient agricultural technology for sugarcane cultivation in the world,[11] uses modern equipment and cheap sugar cane as feedstock, the residual cane-waste (bagasse) is used to produce heat and power, which results in a very competitive price and also in a high energy balance (output energy/input energy), which varies from 8.3 for average conditions to 10.2 for best practice production.[5][12] In 2010, the U.S. EPA designated Brazilian sugarcane ethanol as an advanced biofuel due to its 61% reduction of total life cycle greenhouse gas emissions, including direct indirect land use change emissions.

There are no longer any light vehicles in Brazil running on pure gasoline. .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

Instead of sugar cane, the US could use Hemp, especially now that The Donald has legalized its production



Nissan SOFC fuel cell vehicle

Blsht, why don't you read the post and respond to the statements made,
not shift the conversation to suit your idiotic agenda.

[Zippyjuan]

False. Doesn't anyone do any basic research anymore before they spout a bunch of nonsense?

Instead of sugar cane, the US could use Hemp, especially now that The Donald has legalized its production

Hemp is not a great oil source. I ran numbers a few years ago but going by yields based on my memory, we would have to plant all of our arable lands with hemp to replace all of our oil used. That means growing zero food.

http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/art...-smoke-clears/

Finally, there's the relatively low oil productivity of hemp. Hemp seed does have a relatively high oil content of about 33 percent, compared with canola at about 40 percent. However, it has a low seed per-acre yield. Typically, an acre of hemp yields about 700 pounds of seed, although some farmers have enjoyed production numbers as high as 1,200 pounds an acre in good years,

Still, he's a realist. As long as he and other hemp growers can get better prices from the food markets, they'll continue to pursue that avenue. At current values of CAN$1,000 for a 45-gallon barrel of hemp oil, it just wouldn't pay to make biodiesel out of the product. "It would be too cost prohibitive at this moment," he says.
The only way Bobbee's hemp seed would end up at the Bifrost Bio-Blends plant is if it didn't meet food-quality standards or if there was ever a surplus of the seed.

Price is the big issue, Hanks says, echoing Bobbee's sentiments. The human nutritional market pays well for hemp seed. Currently, conventionally grown hemp seed brings in about 45 Canadian cents a pound, he says. Certified organic seed garners 85 Canadian cents a pound, or nearly CAN$40 a bushel.

If one barrel costs C$ 1,000 and seeds are going for .45 a pound, that means it would take 2,127 pounds of seed to produce one barrel of hemp oil biodiesel. At the more optimistic figure of 1000 pounds per acre, you need more than two acres to produce just one barrel of oil. US consumes seven billion barrels a year and our total land mass is only 2.4 billion acres (including homes, businesses, lakes, mountains, deserts, etc.) We need 15 billion acres to replace all of our petroleum oil with hemp oil biodiesel based on figures from that article.

(corn isn't a great use either).

[Stratovarious]

Hemp is not a great oil source. I ran numbers a few years ago but going by yields based on my memory, we would have to plant all of our arable lands with hemp to replace all of our oil used. That means growing zero food.

http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/art...-smoke-clears/







If one barrel costs C$ 1,000 and seeds are going for .45 a pound, that means it would take 2,127 pounds of seed to produce one barrel of hemp oil biodiesel. At the more optimistic figure of 1000 pounds per acre, you need more than two acres to produce just one barrel of oil. US consumes seven billion barrels a year and our total land mass is only 2.4 billion acres (including homes, businesses, lakes, mountains, deserts, etc.) We need 15 billion acres to replace all of our petroleum oil with hemp oil biodiesel based on figures from that article.

(corn isn't a great use either).

Excellent Zippy.
I think this ethanol guy has decided that food is over rated , I guess we
don't really need it after all.
Aside from seed, we need to look at fertilizer , farm equipment....
Crop based fuels have a direct impact on food production.
'' let them eat cake '' ?

[Zippyjuan]

Excellent Zippy.
I think this ethanol guy has decided that food is over rated , I guess we
don't really need it after all.
Aside from seed, we need to look at fertilizer , farm equipment....
Crop based fuels have a direct impact on food production.
'' let them eat cake '' ?

When you include all of the costs from energy to production to transportation, biofuels don't make much economic sense. Some even cost more energy to produce than they yield. They sound nice but aren't that practical for the ways we use petroleum products (we also use petroleum to produce the fertilizers we use on crops).

[acptulsa]

False. Doesn't anyone do any basic research anymore before they spout a bunch of nonsense?

Instead of sugar cane, the US could use Hemp, especially now that The Donald has legalized its production.

So, you're saying hemp and sugar have comparable energy content (calories)?

Doesn't anyone do any basic research any more before they spout a bunch of nonsense?

[specsaregood]

So, you're saying hemp and sugar have comparable energy content (calories)?

Doesn't anyone do any basic research any more before they spout a bunch of nonsense?

Some people say it has more, not per kilo mind you, but based on it growing faster in poorer conditions. Total output is higher, according to some studies.

[Stratovarious]

When you include all of the costs from energy to production to transportation, biofuels don't make much economic sense. Some even cost more energy to produce than they yield. They sound nice but aren't that practical for the ways we use petroleum products (we also use petroleum to produce the fertilizers we use on crops).

From what I've read in the past, recycling has similar outcomes or issues; takes twice the energy, and
material costs in general to reproduce that same 'bottle' or 'sheet' of plastic etc.....but it
looks good on a plaque placed on someone's desk, a Green Hero.

[Peace Piper]

Hemp is not a great oil source.

Wasn't referring to hemp oil.

See: Sugar cane

[Zippyjuan]

Wasn't referring to hemp oil.

See: Sugar cane

What is your yield per acre? How much biofuel? "sugar" is the key component in sugar cane- fermentation converts the sugars to alcohol. Hemp stalks don't have much sugar.

http://hemp-ethanol.blogspot.com/200...s-of-hemp.html

In Tim Castleman's article "Hemp Biomass For Energy", he wrote his observations about biodiesel too, explaining that "Some varieties are reported to yield as much as 38% oil, and a record 2,000 lbs. per acre was recorded in 1999. At this rate, 760 lbs. of oil per acre would result in about 100 allons of oil, with production costs totaling about $5.20 per gallon.

42 gallons to a barrel of oil and you are getting just over two barrels of oil from an acre. That does cut your land needed to replace all our oil to 3.5 billion acres. Out of our total of 2.4 billion acres in the entire country.

“In the most favorable growing conditions, we obtained yields of up to 15,000 kg of stem dry matter per hectare (6,070 kg per acre). Under similar conditions, other crops such as maize, sugar beet or potato produced similar dry matter yields. All results indicate that as far its yield is concerned, fiber hemp is in no way exceptional.”

[Stratovarious]

''False. Doesn't anyone do any basic research anymore before they spout a bunch of nonsense? '' peace piper

Kudos to Peace Pipe smoker for negging my rep for responding to his insults.....
You da man peace piper, keep on vapping dude.........
Peace.

[Stratovarious]

When you include all of the costs from energy to production to transportation, biofuels don't make much economic sense. Some even cost more energy to produce than they yield. They sound nice but aren't that practical for the ways we use petroleum products (we also use petroleum to produce the fertilizers we use on crops).

Yep , I see it as just another way to shuffle wealth around and lots of ''virtue signalling''/
Sadly the cost to our environment and sustainability is deadly.

[acptulsa]

''False. Doesn't anyone do any basic research anymore before they spout a bunch of nonsense? '' peace piper

Kudos to Peace Pipe smoker for negging my rep for responding to his insults.....
You da man peace piper, keep on vapping dude.........
Peace.

You and me both. Takes a brave man to take on two people who rep with .45s with that peashooter of his.

Or a fool.

[Stratovarious]

You and me both. Take a brave man to take on two people who rep with .45s with that peashooter of his.

Or a fool.

[angelatc]

Yep , I see it as just another way to shuffle wealth around and lots of ''virtue signalling''/
Sadly the cost to our environment and sustainability is deadly.

The world's largest producer of sugar cane still had to pass laws requiring people to use it for fuel. That signals economic inefficiency.

[idiom]

The world's largest producer of sugar cane still had to pass laws requiring people to use it for fuel. That signals economic inefficiency.

You can't poke a hole in the ground and get ethanol pouring out of it.

The use of sugar in the US is restricted and Corn is incentive, which is why Americans eat HFCS. No economic or nutritional reason. Your diets are flooded with government interventions absent from the rest of the world.

California wanting to maintain clean air in their car heavy cities is definitely not the problem. Massive ass-backwards subsidies to farmers are.