View Poll Results: Will Rand sell out and vote for William Barr?

Voters
8. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes he will sell out

    7 87.50%
  • No he will stand firm

    1 12.50%
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Thread: Will Rand sell out on William Barr?

  1. #1

    Question Will Rand sell out on William Barr?

    Will Rand sell out again and vote for the nomination of William Barr for AG?
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  3. #2
    Poll needs more options...

    Depends on what he gets for his vote. My take is that Rand's votes are often for sale if the price meets what he deems to be higher value for liberty. In Rand's mind, a short term AG assignment may be worth some key votes or a presidential push on some other piece of legislation.

    Rand's definitely on our team, but sometimes he plays the game differently than we'd like.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  4. #3
    Barr will get confirmed, and if Rand votes to confirm it will only be to refrain from making an enemy for no reason.

  5. #4
    I predict he will vote for him. Disappointing but that's politics

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post

    Depends on what he gets for his vote.
    That's the very definition of "selling out"
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Barr will get confirmed, and if Rand votes to confirm it will only be to refrain from making an enemy for no reason.
    Standing on principle is a pretty damn good reason.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  8. #7
    Rand is still 92% the best senator we have (according to JBS's freedom index)

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    That's the very definition of "selling out"
    Except that he doesn't generally "sell out" for personal gain. I know it's a small distinction for Teh Collinz, but he tends give his "payment" back to the greater liberty.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    That's the very definition of "selling out"
    No it isn't.

    Selling out is for personal gain.

    What Rand is doing is best utilizing his political capital to increase liberty in the longterm.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Standing on principle is a pretty damn good reason.
    There is nothing "wrong" with that. Ron Paul did that, but Ron Paul never had any political capital so he never made any headway. He was a voice of reason. We need politicians who can represent that voice of reason, but we also need politicians who can actually work the system to help gain more liberty in the long run.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #11
    Dannno is spot on. Ron used to support leadership and in exchange they let him keep his seat on the Financial Services committee

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Except that he doesn't generally "sell out" for personal gain. I know it's a small distinction for Teh Collinz, but he tends give his "payment" back to the greater liberty.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    There is nothing "wrong" with that. Ron Paul did that, but Ron Paul never had any political capital so he never made any headway. He was a voice of reason. We need politicians who can represent that voice of reason, but we also need politicians who can actually work the system to help gain more liberty in the long run.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    No it isn't.

    Selling out is for personal gain.

    What Rand is doing is best utilizing his political capital to increase liberty in the longterm.

    The concept of "political capital" is a myth... yall should know better.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Rand's definitely on our team, but sometimes he plays the game differently than we'd like.
    And some of us Like the way he plays the game.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    The concept of "political capital" is a myth... yall should know better.
    So Rand ended the wars in Syria and Afghanistan with.......what exactly??
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    So Rand ended the wars in Syria and Afghanistan with.......what exactly??
    Angry posturing?

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Will Rand sell out again and vote for the nomination of William Barr for AG?
    Rand's default position is to confirm presidential cabinet picks. What specific issues are grounds for rejecting Barr and how bad is he on those issues?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    So Rand ended the wars in Syria and Afghanistan with.......what exactly??
    Well first off these military involvements haven't ended yet. Some of the Trump Admin has done some back peddling. No telling if Trump will actually make good on this. Hopefully he does, and it would be wonderful, but he has internal conflicts he has to deal with inside his own house.

    And Rand has fallen for the access trap. This is a false sense of power or control. Now that being said, it is great he has such a positive relationship with Trump and that he is able to whisper in Trump's ear on certain things. But not at the expense of principle and actual power.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Rand's default position is to confirm presidential cabinet picks.
    Which is not a principled position. Nor is it consistent with himself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    What specific issues are grounds for rejecting Barr and how bad is he on those issues?
    Barr supports gun control, he supports asset forfeiture, and he was heavily involved in the Ruby Ridge incident. In short, he is part of the Bush machine.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  22. #19
    I just discovered this.... Rand has indeed commented on Barr back in December:


    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politic...set-forfeiture
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  23. #20
    I only saw clips of the confirmation hearing but Sen. Durbin asked him why he wanted the job. He replied "I love the agency". What a bootlicker!

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    The concept of "political capital" is a myth... yall should know better.
    That must explain why Rand gets things done that Ron couldn't.

    Ron's path was good and so is Rand's.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Well first off these military involvements haven't ended yet. Some of the Trump Admin has done some back peddling. No telling if Trump will actually make good on this. Hopefully he does, and it would be wonderful, but he has internal conflicts he has to deal with inside his own house.

    And Rand has fallen for the access trap. This is a false sense of power or control. Now that being said, it is great he has such a positive relationship with Trump and that he is able to whisper in Trump's ear on certain things. But not at the expense of principle and actual power.
    He sacrifices neither principle nor actual power.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That must explain why Rand gets things done that Ron couldn't.
    Ron's path was good and so is Rand's.
    They don't have the same job either. The role, abilities, and relationships of a Rep vs. Sen. are different and warrant different strategies. Randal has explained in the past if he tried to block everything, they would just run roughshod over him and he would end up ignored.

  27. #24
    This is actually a good opportunity that could spark a national debate on policy instead of partisanship. Maybe Rand can argue for more liberty and not less especially on stuff that has such wide support with independents. Trumps AG and possible RBG supreme court nominee replacement could decide the 2020 election before any vote gets counted



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That must explain why Rand gets things done that Ron couldn't.

    Ron's path was good and so is Rand's.
    Well being a Senator is fundamentally different than being a House Rep. It's a day and night difference. Not only are the rules are different but being 1 out of 100 is very different than being 1 out of 435.


    Yes Rand has been a lot smarter about more effective about things than Ron has. But he has also sold out his principles. To be fair though Ron had supported some very nasty people for office too.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He sacrifices neither principle nor actual power.
    Voting for Kavanaugh was a sacrifice of principle. Voting for gun control was a sacrifice of principle. There were a few other bad votes he had too I cannot recall off the top of my head.

    And you don't understand the difference between access and power. If he had power he could force others to do what he wanted... specifically Trump. But he doesn't, he only has access, which may or may not accomplish anything (it usually doesn't).
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Well being a Senator is fundamentally different than being a House Rep. It's a day and night difference. Not only are the rules are different but being 1 out of 100 is very different than being 1 out of 435.


    Yes Rand has been a lot smarter about more effective about things than Ron has. But he has also sold out his principles. To be fair though Ron had supported some very nasty people for office too.
    Rand has lost some political battles over his principles and picked some of his battles so he could try to win the war. Some times you have to lose some battles to win the war.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Voting for Kavanaugh was a sacrifice of principle. Voting for gun control was a sacrifice of principle. There were a few other bad votes he had too I cannot recall off the top of my head.

    And you don't understand the difference between access and power. If he had power he could force others to do what he wanted... specifically Trump. But he doesn't, he only has access, which may or may not accomplish anything (it usually doesn't).
    Whatever you think about his principles (and I maintain that unless his vote is the deciding one he hasn't sacrificed them) he doesn't have any power so he can't possibly sacrifice any.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 01-17-2019 at 06:12 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    this non binary back to bish again?
    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    which may or may not accomplish anything (it usually doesn't).

    With the possible exception of Milton Friedman getting rid of the draft and his influence on floating currencies, just the recent foreign policy stuff makes Rand the most consequential libertarian in political history.

    I know you have your small, nothing pet issues that aren't real issues, but Rand is actually moving the ball over the goal. If you can't admit you were completely wrong about everything at this point, you aren't a reasonable person. This is what winning looks. After the last two months, I would probably give Rand, the Senator, an A+, and I am tough grader.

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