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Thread: Neanderthal dental plaque shows there was no 'typical' paleo diet, some were fully vegetarian

  1. #1

    Neanderthal dental plaque shows there was no 'typical' paleo diet, some were fully vegetarian

    When people talk about the Paleo diet, that’s not paleo, that’s just non-carb,” Weyrich says. “The true paleo diet is eating whatever’s out there in the environment.”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...s-like/518949/
    Last edited by Yieu; 01-12-2019 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Added underline.



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  3. #2
    Makes me want a woolly rhino steak.
    Do something Danke

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Yieu View Post
    “When people talk about the Paleo diet, that’s not paleo, that’s just non-carb,” Weyrich says. “The true paleo diet is eating whatever’s out there in the environment.”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...s-like/518949/
    Doubt they found much pasta, bread, refined grains, or vegetable oils "out there in the environment".

  5. #4
    Meat and veg - sounds pretty paleo diet friendly to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Doubt they found much pasta, bread, refined grains, or vegetable oils "out there in the environment".
    Yes, and even the fruit was very low fructose until they were able to breed it in. That doesn't mean there wasn't any honey or maple syrup to be found out there, but it wasn't being mass produced in most places.

    Most people who eat paleo diets aren't strict paleo.. I don't even think there is a good definition of what paleo is. Some paleo folks eat dairy. Some try and keep their paleo/non-paleo intake ratio at 80/20. It's still a diet, and it's based on what our ancestors had most access to.. it makes sense, and it is healthy.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  7. #6
    The article is fake news written by people who know nothing about the paleo diet..

    “When people talk about the Paleo diet, that’s not paleo, that’s just non-carb,” Weyrich says. “The true paleo diet is eating whatever’s out there in the environment.”

    By harvesting and sequencing that DNA, Weyrich has shown that there was no such thing as a typical Neanderthal diet.
    People who write about the paleo diet talk about what it is, this is precisely what is describe. They don't claim there is a "typical" diet that every ancestor ate. They do claim that most diets our ancestors ate were predominately low carb.

    Now the question becomes, did any of the diets they studied contain high carbs?

    One individual from Spy cave in Belgium mostly ate meat like woolly rhinoceros and wild sheep, as well as some edible mushrooms. But two individuals who lived in El Sidrón cave in Spain seemed to be entirely vegetarian. The team couldn’t find any traces of meat in their diet, which consisted of mushrooms, pine nuts, tree bark, and moss. The Belgian Neanderthals hunted; the Spanish ones foraged.
    The answer seems to be "no". Mushrooms, pine nuts, tree bark and moss are all "paleo" and pretty low carb. Pine nuts have carbs, but paleo says nuts and seeds are ok to eat because our ancestors ate them.

    You can be 100% paleo and also be vegetarian.

    The "scientists" and "experts" quoted in this article should have done 5 more minutes of research on the paleo diet before they wrote this piece, it makes them look pretty stupid.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #7
    I just found the information from the research interesting, because it has at times appeared that some people go paleo (all meat, no veg) or low carb or no carb out of animosity for those who don't eat meat.

  9. #8
    I have taught classes on wilderness survival, wild edibles, trapping and primitive living. Vegetarianism (particularly veganism) is a modern fad in temperate climates. In tropical climates there is an abundance of year round plants to eat, it's possible. In colder regions the food supply quickly vanishes. Deer and other plant eaters can survive on grass, bark, etc. People can not. Modern agriculture has changed it.

    Hunter and gather societies had no means of reliably storing plant material. Even in Africa were there are still people who live primitively, meat is a mainstay. Even if people did store acorns and hickory nuts, why rely only on that when a nice tasty deer is a bowshot away? The lifestyle of the American Indians is testament to what I type in this post.

    Also in cold climates, anyone who ACTUALLY WORKS OUTSIDE will tell you that bacon and eggs will keep you warmer in freezing temperatures a lot better than chick pea and spinach curry, a dish I make when I occasionally change up my diet.

    Veganism is a fad for those who are pampered and insulated from reality.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Vegetarianism (particularly veganism) is a modern fad in temperate climates.
    This is false, and I believe that should be obvious. People have been vegetarian for at least 5,000 - 10,000 years that we know of.

    Veganism is a fad for those who are pampered and insulated from reality.
    Perhaps that may be the case for Veganism, but vegetarianism is ancient, and is practical in most places in the world. Also, there is no nutritional requirement for meat in the human diet. I don't care what anyone eats or why. But I do think that this is good information to be aware of.

  12. #10
    BTW Yieu, I apologise if my above post was a bit harsh. That wasn't directed at you. I recently listened to a condescending vegan rant and didn't have an opportunity to respond. The dam on the building rant was released on my post.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Yieu View Post
    This is false, and I believe that should be obvious. People have been vegetarian for at least 5,000 - 10,000 years that we know of.



    Perhaps that may be the case for Veganism, but vegetarianism is ancient, and is practical in most places in the world. Also, there is no nutritional requirement for meat in the human diet. I don't care what anyone eats or why. But I do think that this is good information to be aware of.
    Point to a hunter/gather society that lives exclusively on plants?

    Explain how a traditional Eskimo could be a vegetarian?

  14. #12
    I've seen how vegans can be, and they can be even more condescending to vegetarians than they are to those who eat meat. I do think they're a bit extreme because of that. Typically, vegetarians don't care what you eat, and vegans think they need to insult everyone into becoming vegan.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Point to a hunter/gather society that lives exclusively on plants?

    Explain how a traditional Eskimo could be a vegetarian?
    Areas as far north as that are the biggest exception to how it's practical in most places in the world. But we know that people have been vegetarian in India for more than 5,000 years, at least.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Yieu View Post
    Areas as far north as that are the biggest exception to how it's practical in most places in the world. But we know that people have been vegetarian in India for more than 5,000 years, at least.
    I do not argue with that. I stated above that in warmer climates it works well.

    I am also a lover of Indian food. I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian and our church recommends an almost vegan diet periodically throughout the year. My house smells like a curry factory during Lent because of the delicious vegetarian recipes that I have acquired from India. I also believe you posted some vegetarian recipes a few years back-- thanks. The Lenten diet isn't that rough and I like it at times.

    However, living in the USA with an interest in primitive cultures, technology, and survival, a Lenten diet in a SHTF scenario, even in s southern state like NC would be rough. Especially in the winter.

    Back to your article, I have a feeling the Neaderthals were more of flexitarians who ate what was available when it was available.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Yieu View Post
    I just found the information from the research interesting, because it has at times appeared that some people go paleo (all meat, no veg) or low carb or no carb out of animosity for those who don't eat meat.
    If you found the research interesting, and you posted it here, why aren't you interested in what anybody has to say about it?

    I just said you can be vegetarian AND paleo, and then you come back saying paleo is all meat and no vegetables.. When in fact paleo is meat (optional, but highly recommended) + veggies + nuts + small amount of fruit, and in some cases dairy..

    The entire paleo diet is based around a cornicopia of what our ancestors ate - it simply omits the new stuff from the last 10k years, or to only eat small amounts of it (namely grains and legumes, especially in bulk).

    Maybe you should try and learn about diet from people who actually know about the diet they are talking about or criticizing? To me that is more interesting than hearing people talk about things they know nothing about..
    Last edited by dannno; 01-12-2019 at 03:29 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  18. #16
    Hey dannno. I meant there that there seem to be some people who treat it the way I described, even if that's not the most accurate description of it.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Yieu View Post
    I just found the information from the research interesting, because it has at times appeared that some people go paleo (all meat, no veg) or low carb or no carb out of animosity for those who don't eat meat.
    A. Paleo, as danno pointed out, is not all meat, no veg.
    B. I've never met someone (vegan, paleo, or anything in between) who changed their diet because they disagree with someone else's dietary choices. Honestly, that sounds insane. o_O
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    B. I've never met someone (vegan, paleo, or anything in between) who changed their diet because they disagree with someone else's dietary choices. Honestly, that sounds insane. o_O
    I've seen people say they'd eat extra meat after talking to someone who doesn't eat meat. I think some of the carnivore type diets might be backlash against vegans.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Yieu View Post
    I've seen how vegans can be, and they can be even more condescending to vegetarians than they are to those who eat meat. I do think they're a bit extreme because of that. Typically, vegetarians don't care what you eat, and vegans think they need to insult everyone into becoming vegan.
    Any sort of extremism in diet is likely unhealthy. All meat. No meat. Just consume a variety of foods- all in moderation- and get plenty of exercise. Our teeth and digestive systems are neither carnivore nor herbavore.


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  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Yieu View Post
    I've seen people say they'd eat extra meat after talking to someone who doesn't eat meat. I think some of the carnivore type diets might be backlash against vegans.
    They are probably joking around.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Yieu View Post
    I've seen how vegans can be, and they can be even more condescending to vegetarians than they are to those who eat meat. I do think they're a bit extreme because of that. Typically, vegetarians don't care what you eat, and vegans think they need to insult everyone into becoming vegan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yieu View Post
    I've seen people say they'd eat extra meat after talking to someone who doesn't eat meat. I think some of the carnivore type diets might be backlash against vegans.
    I think you just figured out why someone who eats meat might be an $#@! to a vegan. I've been a jerk to a few who were $#@!ty to me.

    Again, I've never heard of anyone changing their eating habits because someone else is eating differently. Personally, I don't give a crap what people eat as long as they don't try to force their diet on me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    They are probably joking around.
    I wasn't joking when I insulted one. I'm fairly sure she wasn't joking when she insulted me, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I wasn't joking when I insulted one. I'm fairly sure she wasn't joking when she insulted me, either.
    I was talking about someone saying that they will eat more meat to spite a vegetarian.

  27. #24
    I eat what my body tells me too granted I have been mostly vegetarian most of my life but if my body says to eat a piece of fish or meat I just do it.My dogs eat a lot of veggies too but they also eat meat. We don't fight about it. I don't try to make anyone feel guilty because of their choice of foods.



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  29. #25
    I'm pretty skeptical about the potential for the methods these scientists used to determine what their subjects' diets were.

    Even if they are able to recover enough genetic material to determine with accuracy what kind of microbes it came from and what kinds of foods this indicated those Neanderthals ate, I doubt that it would allow the scientists to say that the foods indicated by the microbes they found fossils of exhausted the entire diet of everything the Neanderthals on whose teeth they were found ever ate.

  30. #26

  31. #27
    They were not frequent flossers, which was not a
    huge issues with plaque build up, but the offencive breath
    interferred with mating instincts and the species failed
    to maintane signifiant reproduction rates as a result ,
    eventually leading to the extinciton of the species.



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