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Thread: "Trump's Big Libertarian Experiment" - NYT Paul Krugman

  1. #1

    Thumbs up "Trump's Big Libertarian Experiment" - NYT Paul Krugman

    Incredibly, Trump is turning out to be, in effect, the most Libertarian POTUS we've seen in our lifetimes. He's literally shutting down the government. Federal employees are getting paystubs with $0.00 written on them! How much better does it get than that??

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/o...-shutdown.html



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Murray N Rothbard View Post
    Incredibly, Trump is turning out to be, in effect, the most Libertarian POTUS we've seen in our lifetimes. He's literally shutting down the government. Federal employees are getting paystubs with $0.00 written on them! How much better does it get than that??

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/o...-shutdown.html
    Need to subscribe to read more than a couple of articles from the Times. Anything to share from it?


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  4. #3
    Just the usual type of garbage....


    Trump’s Big Libertarian Experiment


    Trump’s Big Libertarian Experiment
    Does contaminated food smell like freedom?

    By Paul Krugman

    “Government,” declared Ronald Reagan in his first Inaugural Address, “is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem.” Republicans have echoed his rhetoric ever since. Somehow, though, they’ve never followed through on the radical downsizing of government their ideology calls for.

    But now Donald Trump is, in effect, implementing at least part of the drastic reduction in government’s role his party has long claimed to favor. If the shutdown drags on for months — which seems quite possible — we’ll get a chance to see what America looks like without a number of public programs the right has long insisted we don’t need. Never mind the wall; think of what’s going on as a big, beautiful libertarian experiment.

    Seriously, it’s striking how many of the payments the federal government is or soon will be failing to make are for things libertarians insist we shouldn’t have been spending taxpayer dollars on anyway.

    For example, federal checks to farmers aren’t going out *— but libertarian organizations like the Cato Institute have long denounced farm subsidies as just another form of crony capitalism.

    Businesspeople are furious that the Small Business Administration isn’t making loans — but libertarians want to see the whole agency abolished.

    If the shutdown extends into March — which, again, seems entirely possible — money for food stamps will dry up. But Republicans have long been deeply hostile to the food stamp program. Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, has denounced the program for “making it excessively easy to be nonproductive.”

    The shutdown has drastically curtailed work at the Food and Drug Administration, which among other things tries to prevent food contamination: Routine inspections of seafood, vegetables, fruits and other foods have stopped. But there’s a long conservative tradition, going back to Milton Friedman, that condemns the F.D.A.’s existence as an unwarranted interference in the free market.

    Strange to say, however, neither the Trump administration nor its congressional allies are celebrating the actual or prospective termination of government services their ideology says shouldn’t exist. Instead, they’re engaged in frantic administrative and legal maneuvering in an attempt to mitigate those program cuts. Why?

    O.K., we shouldn’t be completely cynical (cynical, yes, but not completely so). Even where there’s a government-free solution to a problem, you might worry that it would take time to set up. Maybe you believe that private companies could take over the F.D.A.’s role in keeping food safe, but such companies don’t exist now and can’t be conjured up in a matter of weeks. So even true libertarians wouldn’t necessarily celebrate a sudden government shutdown.

    That said, the truth is that libertarian ideology isn’t a real force within the G.O.P.; it’s more of a cover story for the party’s actual agenda.

    In the case of the party establishment, that agenda is about redistributing income up the scale, and in particular helping important donor interests. Republican politicians may invoke the rhetoric of free markets to justify cutting taxes for the rich and benefits for the poor, or removing environmental regulations that hurt polluters’ profits, but they don’t really care about free markets per se. After all, the party had little problem lining up behind Trump’s embrace of tariffs.

    Meanwhile, the philosophy of the party’s base is, in essence, big government for me but not for thee. Stick it to the bums on welfare, but don’t touch those farm subsidies. Tellingly, the centerpiece of the long G.O.P. jihad against Obamacare was the false claim that it would hurt Medicare.

    And as it happens, many of the spending cuts being forced by the shutdown fall heavily and obviously on base voters. Small business owners are much more conservative than the nation as a whole, but they really miss those government loans. Rural voters went Republican during a Democratic midterm blowout, but they want those checks. McConnell may have trash-talked food stamps in the past, but a sudden cutoff would have a catastrophic effect on the most Republican parts of his home state.

    The one piece of the shutdown that Republicans seem fairly calm about is the nonpayment of federal workers. Maybe the party believes, like Trump, that these workers are mainly Democrats. But when the effects of nonpayment start to bite, even that indifference may disappear.

    In any case, while the gap between Republicans’ supposed ideology and their actual reaction to the shutdown is understandable, that doesn’t make it innocent. If a party is going to claim, year after year, to believe that government is the problem, not the solution, then complain bitterly when the government stops handing out checks, attention should be paid.

    And if you have libertarian leanings yourself, you should ask whether you’re happy with what’s happening with government partially out of the picture. Knowing that the food you’re eating is now more likely than before to be contaminated, does that potential contamination smell to you like freedom?

    Paul Krugman has been an Opinion columnist since 2000 and is also a Distinguished Professor at the City University of New York Graduate Center. He won the 2008 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for his work on international trade and economic geography. @PaulKrugman
    Last edited by Murray N Rothbard; 01-11-2019 at 07:16 PM.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Murray N Rothbard View Post
    Incredibly, Trump is turning out to be, in effect, the most Libertarian POTUS we've seen in our lifetimes. He's literally shutting down the government. Federal employees are getting paystubs with $0.00 written on them! How much better does it get than that??

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/o...-shutdown.html
    and yet the deficit and budget continues to increase. Only the NYT considers what we are seeing libertarianism. And what happens when the said govt employees get their back pay? is he going to write an update? I doubt it
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  6. #5
    Sounds like Krugman is trolling, no?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Murray N Rothbard View Post
    Just the usual type of garbage....


    Trump’s Big Libertarian Experiment
    "The Patriarch"

    willie with tan lines: enjoy the shots and the woman
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.

  8. #7
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  9. #8
    I realize this was a little tongue in cheek, but we do have Communists labeled as Liberals, Liberals labeled as Libertarians, and dudes labeled as broads...

    Strange times, my friends (or is enemy the new friend label)... strange times, indeed.



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  11. #9
    And if you have libertarian leanings yourself, you should ask whether you’re happy with what’s happening with government partially out of the picture. Knowing that the food you’re eating is now more likely than before to be contaminated, does that potential contamination smell to you like freedom?


    Fuuuuuu[K you... This isnt a damn government shutdown, and yes, I'd be thrilled if it was. We have a long ways to go before its anything other than political theater - thanks for playing.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by https://contrakrugman.com
    Paul Krugman loves Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and says her suggestion for a much higher top marginal income tax rate is actually well founded and economically sound
    The man spews nonsense, and is constantly picked apart by libertarians.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  13. #11
    krugman .LOL
    Do something Danke

  14. #12
    Krugman is a joke.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  15. #13
    And if you have libertarian leanings yourself, you should ask whether you’re happy with what’s happening with government partially out of the picture. Knowing that the food you’re eating is now more likely than before to be contaminated, does that potential contamination smell to you like freedom?
    I can't believe he isn't talking about the roads! What about the roads?????
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  16. #14
    Looking forward to when these criminals lose their printing press and this $#@! gets real. I understand that I will have to endure extreme hardships along with most everyone else, but it will be worth it to watch the bull$#@! come to an end. So sick of the outright and open depravity celebrated as patriotism and Godliness.

  17. #15
    I gotta give credit to Paul for calling the GOP's hypocrisy out -- "Meanwhile, the philosophy of the party’s base is, in essence, big government for me but not for thee."

    He's right that crony capitalism, or in many cases, outright socialism, is the lived out philosophy of the GOP writ large, something we all know. Us small government types are few and far between.

    My Fox News Trump loving relatives were hand-wringing about TSA agents quitting their jobs due to the uncertainty surrounding the shutdown, while I applauded and remarked that we'd be better off with no TSA. They thought I was crazy. "but 9/11 changed everything!" Smell the fear.

    I also agree with Krugman's implied point that conservatives everywhere should not only be cheering this, but begging for more of the same, and for outright elimination of these departments, not just a temporary shutdown. And i'm perfectly fine with ripping off the band-aid.

    His baiting the article with "food contamination", "farmers going broke", "small businesses failing" is the real joke -- anyone bought contaminated food since the shutdown?
    The bigger government gets, the smaller I wish it was.



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