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Thread: Texas Libertarian Ron Paul: We don't need Trump's border wall to stop illegal immigration

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Some folks just shouldn't 'figure'.
    You seem to be one of them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    How would you know what my source is?

    Many of them came before the start of the war and many of the foreigners that came after the 1840's were the losers in the failed socialist revolutions in Europe.
    Yeah, because rising up against monarchal rule is the definitive feature of a socialist? George Washington, socialist.

  4. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Yeah, because rising up against monarchal rule is the definitive feature of a socialist? George Washington, socialist.
    Read your history, they were socialist revolutions and they were open about it, they were more like the French revolution than the American revolution.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Read your history, they were socialist revolutions and they were open about it, they were more like the French revolution than the American revolution.
    "The middle and working classes thus shared a desire for reform, and agreed on many of the specific aims. Their participations in the revolutions, however, differed. While much of the impetus came from the middle classes, much of the cannon fodder came from the lower classes." Wikipedia.

    That middle class, aka petit bourgeoisie, a ubiquitous revolutionary force for the communists.

    Point being, if Wikipedia can shoot your claim to $#@! then maybe you should revisit your ideas.

    Let me know when the go fund me is up for your safe space.
    Last edited by bv3; 01-08-2019 at 11:18 PM.



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  7. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    "The middle and working classes thus shared a desire for reform, and agreed on many of the specific aims. Their participations in the revolutions, however, differed. While much of the impetus came from the middle classes, much of the cannon fodder came from the lower classes." Wikipedia.

    That middle class, aka petit bourgeoisie, a ubiquitous revolutionary force for the communists.

    Point being, if Wikipedia can shoot your claim to $#@! then maybe you should revisit your ideas.

    Let me know when the go fund me is up for your safe space.
    WIKIPEDIA?

    LOL




    "The year 1848 is turning out well", wrote Engels. "By this glorious revolution the French proletariat has again placed itself at the head of the European movement. All honour to the workers of Paris!" That revolution spread across the whole of Europe, marking an important development in the class struggle. "A spectre is haunting Europe - the spectre of Communism", wrote Marx and Engels in the opening passage of the Communist Manifesto. "All powers of old Europe have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Pope and Tsar, Metternich and Guizot, French Radicals and German police spies." Prophetically, on the day of the Manifesto's publication in London, Europe was ablaze with revolution.
    King Louis-Phillipe of France abdicated immediately. Guizot the French Prime Minister was dismissed and Prince Metternich of Austria fell within a few weeks. Marx and Engels hoped that the revolution would only serve as "the immediate prelude to the proletarian revolution." They immediately hailed the revolution which first broke out in France on 24th February 1848.
    "The year 1848 is turning out well", wrote Engels. "By this glorious revolution the French proletariat has again placed itself at the head of the European movement. All honour to the workers of Paris!
    "Our age, the age of democracy, is breaking. The flames of the Tuileries and the Palais Royal are the dawn of the proletariat. Everywhere the rule of the bourgeoisie will now come crashing down, or be dashed to pieces." (Marx Engels Collected Works, vol.6, p.558)
    After a prolonged period of reaction with the defeat of the 1830 revolutions, the revolutionary masses of Paris, guns and red flags in hand, took to the streets, built barricades, drove out the monarchy and forced the Provisional government to declare a Republic. The worker Guibert burst into the Chamber brandishing a pistol, bringing the debate to an abrupt end with the words, "No more deputies, we are the masters."
    It was the workers and the lower middle class that propelled the revolution forward. The bourgeoisie, who would eventually gain from the revolution, had not expected or wanted such an outcome. "We wanted to climb from step to step", said one, "but we were forced to leap over a whole flight of stairs."
    Above all, the bourgeoisie feared the working class, who pushed forward their own independent class demands: the right to work, a minimum wage, shorter hours, pensions for the disabled, the creation of workshops, compulsory universal education, universal suffrage, progressive taxation, and other working-class demands. In turn, the working class did not trust the bourgeoisie deputies, who wanted an accommodation with the monarchy. As a result, on the walls of Paris revolutionary posters urged the masses: "Let us keep our arms!"
    The new bourgeois republican administration was forced to bring in two socialists into the government, one of whom was Louis Blanc, a popular workers' leader. His role, however, became that of class conciliator, struggling to keep the revolutionary movement within acceptable legal limits. Under the pressure from the radical masses, some reforms were introduced, including the establishment of national workshops, in effect, poor law relief for the unemployed.
    The elections to the Constituent Assembly were held in late April and recorded big gains for the bourgeois parties, largely due to the support of the conservative peasantry which made up 84% of the new electorate. The new government failed to address the plight of the workers and attempted to undermine the revolution by attacking the workers' leaders, particularly Blanqui and Cabet, as "communists". Trust in the bourgeois government melted away. It was becoming obvious that growing frustration was preparing a new showdown. The government's announced closure of the national workshops in Paris was the last straw. "The February revolution raised the problem of property and labour", stated the revolutionary Paul-Louis Deflotte. "This problem must be solved."
    However, the government was making its own plans to teach the workers a lesson by sending them to the school of General Cavaignac who was brought back from butchering the peoples of Algiers, a faithful servant of the counter-revolution.
    On 21st June a decree was promoted, abolishing the national workshops. That day the workers of Paris arose again and threw up barricades throughout the capital. Flags were raised with the inscriptions: "Bread or Death!" and "Work or Death!" It was a purely workers' uprising, devoid of the carnival atmosphere of the February revolution. "The insurrection [is] growing into the greatest revolution that has ever taken place", wrote Marx, "into a revolution of the proletariat against the bourgeoisie." (MECW, vol.7, p.128, emphasis in original.)
    The fighting was ferocious. The bourgeois counter-revolution gave no quarter. The workers were shot down like wild beasts. "The bourgeoisie, fully conscious of what it is doing, conducts a war of extermination against them", wrote Marx. He went on to quote a captain of the republican guard, describing events on 23rd and 24th June. "The cannon replied and until 9 o'clock windows and bricks were shattered by the thunder of artillery. The firing was terrible. Blood flowed in streams while at the same time a tremendous thunderstorm was raging. The cobblestones were red with blood as far as one could see... The number of dead is immense and the number of injured much greater still." (ibid, p.138)
    The workers, on the other hand, fought for four solid days with unequalled bravery. "The courage with which the workers have fought is truly marvelous", wrote Marx. For three full days, 30,000 to 40,000 workers were able to hold their own against more than 80,000 soldiers and 100,000 men of the national guard, against grape-shot, shells, incendiary rockets and the glorious war experiences of generals who did not shrink from using these methods employed in Algeria! They have been crushed and in large part massacred. Their dead will not be accorded the honour that was bestowed upon the dead of July and February. History, however, will assign an entirely different place to them, the martyrs of the first decisive battle of the proletariat." (ibid, p.143)
    After almost a week of battles and street-fighting, the full might of the state was used to crush the movement in blood. A frenzy of shootings and torture were on the order of the day. Some 15,000 were killed and wounded during and after the uprising. The ruling class exacted its revenge for the independent movement of the French workers. The workers' demand "contained a threat to the existing order of society; the workers who put it forward were still armed; therefore, the disarming of the workers was the first commandment for the bourgeois, who were at the helm of the state." (Engels)
    The revolutions of 1848 were essentially bourgeois-democratic in the tasks they attempted to solve. Their fundamental aspect was the destruction of the old feudal structures and the creation of the independent nation state. While Marx and Engels hoped that this bourgeois revolution would be the immediate prelude to the proletarian revolution, given the weakness of the Communist League, they had no alternative but to form in Germany the extreme proletarian wing of the democratic movement. Its aim was to destroy absolutism and to unity the backward states into one democratic republic. This could only be brought about by revolutionary means. The daily paper, Neue Rheinische Zeitung, edited by Marx, was the organ of democratic revolution, but, as Engels wrote, of "a democracy which everywhere emphasized in every point the specific proletarian character." The paper, which had widespread support, became the true headquarters of the militant proletariat, the leading centre of the Communist League.
    Not only did Marx and Engels fight for national independence for the oppressed nationalities, but put forward a genuinely internationalist approach. There were other nations oppressed by reactionary German states, such as the Poles in Prussia, the Italians, Czechs and others in Austria, as well as Russian Tsarism. At this time Tsarism was the most counter-revolutionary force in Europe in the same way that American imperialism is on a world stage today.
    Marx and Engels sharply criticized the cowardly bourgeois leaders for failing to support the struggles of oppressed nations such as the Poles, Czechs, Hungarians and Italians against Prussian and Austrian despotism. The leadership of the revolution will fall to the working class. "... not the cowardly German burghers but the German workers; they will rise up, put an end to the whole filthy, muddled official German rule and with a radical revolution restore the honour of Germany", explained Engels. "Germany will liberate herself to the extent to which she sets free neighbouring nations."
    Revolution broke out in Germany on 18th March with fighting in nearly every town and barricades erected in Berlin and Vienna. The people won a series of democratic rights but control passed into the hands of the big bourgeoisie, which quickly betrayed the struggle.
    It was out of these experiences that Marx and Engels were to raise the idea of permanent revolution. The bourgeoisie were more afraid of the working class than the forces of feudal despotism. They were to play an increasingly counter-revolutionary role. They were incapable of bringing about genuine national unification, as history proved. Marx and Engels put their confidence in the working class. They believed that a successful bourgeois-democratic revolution, under the leadership of the workers, would become the prologue of the proletarian revolution and the transformation of Europe. "Before reaction can be destroyed in Italy and Germany, it must be routed in France", explained Engels. "A democratic social republic must first be proclaimed in France and the French proletariat must first subjugate its bourgeoisie before a lasting victory of democracy is conceivable in Italy, Germany, Poland, Hungary and other countries." (ibid, p.403) Marx agreed: "The Hungarian shall not be free, nor the Poles, nor the Italians, as long as the work remains a slave."
    The defeat of the 1848 revolutions removed any threat of proletarian revolution. The forces of capitalism were still maturing. It took a further 23 years before the glorious Paris Commune (the first workers' state in history) would place proletarian revolution once again on the agenda of the European continent.

    https://www.marxist.com/1848-revolutions.htm
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #186
    Sworddull, you do realize that the existence of Europeans for much of their history has been one of abject subjection and poverty, right? Are you a monarchist as well? I left out the fact that communists are adept at hijacking appropriate revolutionary fervor. Then you use communist propaganda do back your claim that it was series of communist revolutions. Makes a nice circle, I suppose.


    "The revolutions of 1848 were essentially bourgeois-democratic in the tasks they attempted to solve. Their fundamental aspect was the destruction of the old feudal structures and the creation of the independent nation state."

    Do you even read the things you post?

    I reckon you fancy yourself some kind of southern aristocrat, better than the rest of the filth with the audacity to be born.


    Last edited by bv3; 01-08-2019 at 11:37 PM.

  9. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Sworddull, you do realize that the existence of Europeans for much of their history has been one of abject subjection and poverty, right? Are you a monarchist as well? I left out the fact that communists are adept at hijacking appropriate revolutionary fervor. Then you use communist propaganda do back your claim that it was series of communist revolutions. Makes a nice circle, I suppose.


    "The revolutions of 1848 were essentially bourgeois-democratic in the tasks they attempted to solve. Their fundamental aspect was the destruction of the old feudal structures and the creation of the independent nation state."

    Do you even read the things you post?
    Marx and Engels were the leaders of the revolutions and since I had to dig up marxist propaganda to expose that fact it also contained their lies to claim innocence and broad societal support.

    I am absolutely not a monarchist but the enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend, the Europeans were rebelling against monarchy and for socialism:

    Above all, the bourgeoisie feared the working class, who pushed forward their own independent class demands: the right to work [That doesn't mean what it currently means in American politics, it is more like FDR's WPA], a minimum wage, shorter hours [government mandated], pensions for the disabled [paid for by the taxpayers], the creation of workshops [the WPA again], compulsory universal education, universal suffrage, progressive taxation, and other working-class demands. [See: the communist manifesto]
    Are you a Marxist?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #188
    Please note that there were also failed socialist revolutions in the 1830's from which produced many of the European immigrants to America as well as the 1840's.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Marx and Engels were the leaders of the revolutions and since I had to dig up marxist propaganda to expose that fact it also contained their lies to claim innocence and broad societal support.

    I am absolutely not a monarchist but the enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend, the Europeans were rebelling against monarchy and for socialism:



    Are you a Marxist?
    I'm as much a marxist as you are an intellectual. You mistake self-claimed leadership with motivation, I suppose the Gilet Jeune are Marxists, too, after all thats what the communists claim.

    "Since I had to dig up marxist propaganda to expose that fact it also contained their lies to claim innocence and broad societal support." Do you have any ranch? This word salad is flavorless.

  12. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post

    I reckon you fancy yourself some kind of southern aristocrat, better than the rest of the filth with the audacity to be born.


    I reckon you are a presumptive idiot.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Please note that there were also failed socialist revolutions in the 1830's from which produced many of the European immigrants to America as well as the 1840's.
    Please note that the Puritans that composed the first European settlers held fast to certain socialist principles. I think the right question for you is, besides yourself, who else belongs here?

    I mean, I like--even suggest--the procreative possibilities that would be available to you in an isolated state. but answer the question.

  14. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    I'm as much a marxist as you are an intellectual. You mistake self-claimed leadership with motivation,
    And you just ignore facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    I suppose the Gilet Jeune are Marxists, too, after all thats what the communists claim.
    They are far more socialist than Americans and I wouldn't want an influx of them here, they may be an improvement for France but they would be a detriment here, it was the same back then even if you make the socialists revolutionaries the good guys in Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    "Since I had to dig up marxist propaganda to expose that fact it also contained their lies to claim innocence and broad societal support." Do you have any ranch? This word salad is flavorless.
    I guess you are too simple to understand a relatively simple sentence, I'm not surprised.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  16. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I reckon you are a presumptive idiot.
    I less presumed than inferred.

  17. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And you just ignore facts.


    They are far more socialist than Americans and I wouldn't want an influx of them here, they may be an improvement for France but they would be a detriment here, it was the same back then even if you make the socialists revolutionaries the good guys in Europe.


    I guess you are too simple to understand a relatively simple sentence, I'm not surprised.

    Nobody cares what you want. You sound like a baby, a terrified baby.

  18. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Please note that the Puritans that composed the first European settlers held fast to certain socialist principles. I think the right question for you is, besides yourself, who else belongs here?

    I mean, I like--even suggest--the procreative possibilities that would be available to you in an isolated state. but answer the question.
    The south never should have joined the Union with the North after the revolution because there were too many proto-socialists in the North, a simple alliance would have served the necessity of cooperative defense against the British empire.

    I do believe in some limited immigration but excessive immigration has contributed heavily to the loss of liberty in every era of our Republic.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Nobody cares what you want. You sound like a baby, a terrified baby.
    And you sound like someone who is losing the argument and resorts to calling names.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The south never should have joined the Union with the North after the revolution because there were too many proto-socialists in the North, a simple alliance would have served the necessity of cooperative defense against the British empire.

    I do believe in some limited immigration but excessive immigration has contributed heavily to the loss of liberty in every era of our Republic.
    Out of left field with the South again. proto-socialists AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA. If the south and the north didn't join into some kind of confederation or federation the civil war would have been a regular war--just with lots more dead grey coats.

  21. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And you sound like someone who is losing the argument and resorts to calling names.
    No, just indignant that you think that YOU are the one wise enough to pick and choose. Typical of tyrants. That's it! You are a frustrated tyrant! Dude, just get a dog or parakeet. It will obey you as if you were a God, might not like you, but will obey!
    Last edited by bv3; 01-08-2019 at 11:55 PM.

  22. #199
    Europe has always been more socialist than the US since the French revolution and the rest of the world got that way due to European domination, importing large numbers of socialists has undermined and will undermine liberty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Europe has always been more socialist than the US since the French revolution and the rest of the world got that way due to European domination, importing large numbers of socialists has undermined and will undermine liberty.
    What liberty? Eh? What liberty? You like the antebellum south, evidently, you think that was 'liberty'?



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  25. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Out of left field with the South again. proto-socialists AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA.
    The North was full of proto-socialists and Federalists.

    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    If the south and the north didn't join into some kind of confederation or federation the civil war would have been a regular war--just with lots more dead grey coats.
    LOL
    There would have been no war, Lincoln only got the North to go to war because the south was leaving the union, if they had never joined there would have been no excuse for war.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    What liberty? Eh? What liberty? You like the antebellum south, evidently, you think that was 'liberty'?
    No place has ever been perfect but you can thank the South for the Bill of Rights, the Northern Federalists didn't want you to have it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The North was full of proto-socialists and Federalists.


    LOL
    There would have been no war, Lincoln only got the North to go to war because the south was leaving the union, if they had never joined there would have been no excuse for war.
    The motivation for the war was economic, do you suppose that not belonging to the same organization would somehow prevent that preeminent consideration? There still would have been a war, not a brothers war, a regular one--picture Sherman's march, but from day one.

  28. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    No, just indignant that you think that YOU are the one wise enough to pick and choose.
    No, GOD would be in charge of picking who was born in my country and a limited number of people would be allowed to immigrate on a somewhat random basis, as a citizen it is my right to keep foreigners from coming in and taking away my rights, I am indignant that you would dare to claim that others have a right to come and destroy my liberty.


    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Typical of tyrants. That's it! You are a frustrated tyrant! Dude, just get a dog or parakeet. It will obey you as if you were a God, might not like you, but will obey!
    More deranged screeching and name calling because you are losing the argument.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No place has ever been perfect but you can thank the South for the Bill of Rights, the Northern Federalists didn't want you to have it.
    Perhaps, but you DEFINITELY didn't want me to have it.

  30. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    The motivation for the war was economic, do you suppose that not belonging to the same organization would somehow prevent that preeminent consideration? There still would have been a war, not a brothers war, a regular one--picture Sherman's march, but from day one.
    Lincoln had to resort to tyranny to force an unwilling Northern public into war in the first place, without the excuse of preserving the union it would never have happened.
    In addition the Republicans would never have come to power because slavery would never have been a political issue in the North and slavery would have died in the South because an abolitionist North would not have been enforcing the fugitive slave laws.
    To top it all off the North would not have had all the money they had squeezed from the south with protectionist tariffs and would not have been able to afford the army or Navy required to invade the South.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, GOD would be in charge of picking who was born in my country and a limited number of people would be allowed to immigrate on a somewhat random basis, as a citizen it is my right to keep foreigners from coming in and taking away my rights, I am indignant that you would dare to claim that others have a right to come and destroy my liberty.



    More deranged screeching and name calling because you are losing the argument.
    Thats it, your soul so noble God put you here. Weren't your parents. (your lineage interests me, because you act so entitled to space you don't even own.)

  32. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Perhaps, but you DEFINITELY didn't want me to have it.
    I want all mankind to have it but I can't force it on them, I don't want to let them come here and take it away from me and I have that right.

    You don't want me to have it, you want to let millions of foreigners finish it off for good.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  34. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I want all mankind to have it but I can't force it on them, I don't want to let them come here and take it away from me and I have that right.

    You don't want me to have it, you want to let millions of foreigners finish it off for good.
    You want all of mankind to have something you repeatedly profess that they are not capable of creating, to say nothing of possessing? Yeah bud, sure. You are America. This continent, its yours. Foolish me to doubt my betters.

  35. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    Thats it, your soul so noble God put you here. Weren't your parents.
    My parents had a child, GOD decided to send them me, his reasons for that I don't pretend to know, I am just grateful that he sent me to America and determined to preserve the liberty that gave me for my children.


    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    (your lineage interests me, because you act so entitled to space you don't even own.)
    My ancestors go back to the Revolution and I do own a piece of America as do all citizens, we have a right to preserve our liberty by limiting how many people come here from countries that don't believe in it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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