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Thread: The Vaccination Debate

  1. #1

    Exclamation The Vaccination Debate

    The Vaccination Debate
    BY FULL MEASURE STAFF SUNDAY, JANUARY 6TH 2019



    Today we investigate one of the biggest medical controversies of our time: vaccines. There’s little dispute about this much-- vaccines save many lives, and rarely, they injure or kill. A special federal vaccine court has paid out billions for injuries from brain damage to death. But not for the form of brain injury we call autism. Now—we have remarkable new information: a respected pro-vaccine medical expert used by the federal government to debunk the vaccine-autism link, says vaccines can cause autism after all. He claims he told that to government officials long ago, but they kept it secret.

    Yates Hazlehurst was born February 11, 2000. Everything was normal, according to his medical records, until he suffered a severe reaction to vaccinations. Rolf Hazlehurst is Yates’ dad.

    Rolf Hazlehurst: And at first, I didn't believe it. I did not think that, I did not believe that vaccines could cause autism. I didn't believe it.

    But there's a hard reality for Yates. The trademark brain disease, pain and inability to communicate that’s common with severe autism.

    In 2007, Yates’ father sued over his son’s injuries in the little known Federal Vaccine court. It was one of more than 5000 vaccine autism claims.

    Congress created vaccine court in 1988, in consultation with the pharmaceutical industry. In the special court, vaccine makers don’t defend their products—the federal government does it for them, using lawyers from the Justice Department. Money for victims comes from us, not the pharmaceutical industry, through patient fees added onto every vaccine given.

    Denise Vowell: Our hearings are all closed to the public. And that’s statutory.

    In 2007, Yates’ case and nearly all the other vaccine autism claims lost. The decision was based largely on the expert opinion of this man, Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a world-renowned pediatric neurologist shown here at a lecture.

    Dr. Zimmerman was the government’s top expert witness and had testified that vaccines didn’t cause autism. The debate was declared over.

    But now Dr. Zimmerman has provided remarkable new information. He claims that during the vaccine hearings all those years ago, he privately told government lawyers that vaccines can, and did cause autism in some children. That turnabout from the government’s own chief medical expert stood to change everything about the vaccine-autism debate. If the public were to find out.

    Hazlehurst: And he has come forward and explained how he told the United States government vaccines can cause autism in a certain subset of children and United States government, the Department of Justice suppressed his true opinions.

    Hazlehurst discovered that later when Dr. Zimmerman evaluated Yates as a teenager. That’s when he partnered with vaccine safety advocate Robert F. Kennedy, Junior—who has a voice condition.

    Kennedy: This was one of the most consequential frauds, arguably in human history.

    Kennedy was instrumental in convincing Dr. Zimmerman to document his remarkable claim of the government covering up his true expert opinion on vaccines and autism.

    Dr. Zimmerman declined our interview request and referred us to his sworn affidavit. It says: On June 15, 2007, he took aside the Department of Justice—or DOJ lawyers he worked for defending vaccines in vaccine court. He told them that he’d discovered “exceptions in which vaccinations could cause autism.” “I explained that in a subset of children, vaccine induced fever and immune stimulation did cause regressive brain disease with features of autism spectrum disorder.”

    Kennedy: This panicked the two DOJ attorneys and they immediately fired Zimmerman. That was on a Friday and over the weekend they called Zimmerman and said his services would no longer be needed. They wanted to silence him.

    Days after the Department of Justice lawyers fired Dr. Zimmerman as their expert witness, he alleges, they went on to misrepresent his opinion to continue to debunk autism claims. Records show that on June 18, 2007, a DOJ attorney Dr. Zimmerman spoke to told vaccine court, “We know [Dr. Zimmerman’s] views on the issue...There is no scientific basis for a connection” between vaccines and autism. Dr. Zimmerman now calls that “highly misleading.”

    The former DOJ lawyer didn’t return our calls and emails. Kennedy has filed a fraud complaint with the Justice Department Inspector General, who told us they don’t “comment on investigations or potential investigations.”

    Meantime, CDC—which promotes vaccines and monitors vaccine safety-- never disclosed that the government’s own one-time medical expert concluded vaccines can cause autism - and to this day public health officials deny that’s the case.

    Dr. Anne Schuchat: “Based on dozens of studies and everything I know as a physician and a scientist, there’s no link between autism and vaccines.”

    CDC declined our interview request. In addition to filing a fraud complaint, Kennedy has delivered Dr. Zimmerman’s affidavit to leaders on Capitol Hill. But there he claims, is another key part of this story: roadblocks set up by the pharmaceutical industry—or PhRMA.

    Kennedy: But everybody takes money from PhRMA so they've all been corrupted. And it's almost impossible to get anything done on Capitol Hill.

    Kennedy, a Democrat, isn’t the only one claiming vaccine industry money rules the day. We spoke to 11 current and former members of Congress and staff who claim they faced pressure, bullying or threats when they raised vaccine safety questions. Several of them agreed to appear on camera.

    Burton: There's no question in my mind whatsoever that the pharmaceutical industry had a great influence with people over at the CDC and FDA. There's no question in my mind.

    Republican Dan Burton—former Chairman of the House Oversight Committee—has an autistic grandson.

    Burton: I am not against vaccinations.

    He pursued vaccine investigations in the early 2000s. Beth Clay was one of his staffers.

    Clay: There was a lot of pressure from people on the Hill.

    When you say people on the hill were exerting pressure, what kind of people? Colleagues?

    Clay: Colleagues, there were pharmaceutical lobbyists. The pharmaceutical lobbyists had, you know, they are the same people that have been entrenched. They can walk into any office in Capitol Hill, and they'll talk to staff, they'll talk to members and they'll encourage them to discourage, our investigation.

    Sharyl: At the risk of stating the obvious why did they have that kind of access to members?

    Clay: It's money. And if you look at the donations over the last 20 years, the pharmaceutical industry, and Republican and Democrat, they're nonpartisan. They put money everywhere.

    Former Congressman, Dr. Dave Weldon, a Republican, says he got the message loud and clear.

    Sharyl: If you would want to hold a hearing on an issue like vaccines and autism, your own leadership might fight you on that because of the financial influence, the pharmaceutical industry

    Dave Weldon: They wouldn’t fight you. They’d kill it. It's dead. They don't even want to discuss it. It's dead on arrival. If you, if you as an individual member want to take on the pharmaceutical industries. It's forget it.

    Sharyl: Can you describe an incident or just how it, how that would go?

    Weldon: It would typically be in a hallway or the street and people would come up to you and say, “You know, you really need to, you know, back off on this. It could be, it could be bad for the community or bad for the country or bad for you.”

    Weldon says he’s generally pro-vaccine, depending on the patient and the shot—and gives flu shots to adults. We asked him to review Dr. Zimmerman’s new affidavit.

    Weldon: I found his affidavit and testimony through that affidavit to be consistent with my opinions. That some children can get an autism spectrum disorder from a vaccine.

    Republican Bill Posey is a current member of Congress.

    Rep. Bill Posey: I don’t have to tell you that industry is a very, very powerful industry. Matter of fact, I don’t know of anyone more powerful than that industry.

    Posey says his own party leaders twice promised to hold hearings on the topic, only to scuttle them in the end.

    Hazlehurst – who happens to be a criminal prosecutor-- was scheduled to be a witness at one such Congressional hearing. Two weeks before the hearing in 2013, he briefed Congressional staff.

    Hazlehurst: I presented at that Congressional briefing and I explained in that hearing, if I did to a criminal in a court of law what the United States Department of Justice did to vaccine injured children, I would be disbarred and I would be facing criminal charges. I think that scared the hell out of them.

    The hearing was abruptly cancelled. Meantime, Dr. Zimmerman – the one-time expert used to debunk vaccine autism claims—now says several of his own patients got autism from vaccines. They include Yates Hazlehurst.

    Today, with intensive treatment, Yates is doing better. His dad hopes the new testimony from a most unlikely source will get new attention.

    Hazlehurst: A child that was unnecessarily sacrificed and hopefully some good, will come from his suffering.

    The lobby group representing the pharmaceutical industry wouldn’t agree to an interview but told us they’re working with Congress and other stakeholders on the importance and safety of vaccines to support the health and safety of individuals and communities.
    http://fullmeasure.news/news/cover-s...ination-debate
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens



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  3. #2
    There is no debate.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There is no debate.
    I would expect nothing less coming from you. Everything that is imposed upon citizens is up for debate. I know how you like to squelch free speech in this category, nevertheless.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There is no debate.
    That's what they say about "Climate Change" too.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There is no debate.
    One of the worst thing governments ever did was make vaccinations mandatory. If these things were strictly left to the free market, these same people would be lining up to buy 'em like Iphones. But no... Governments overstepped and people, as they should, became suspicious.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  7. #6
    99% of Big Pharma CEO's are in unanimous agreement, the science is in,
    Vaccinations must be mandatory, distribution, manufacturing and health
    workers; 'held harmless' .

  8. #7



    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  9. #8
    The worst part of the debate is merely "You dont own your own body, must take all vaccines", vs "I own my own body and can make my own choice". Obedience vs Freedom of Choice.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  11. #9

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    One of the worst thing governments ever did was make vaccinations mandatory. If these things were strictly left to the free market, these same people would be lining up to buy 'em like Iphones. But no... Governments overstepped and people, as they should, became suspicious.
    Which vaccines are mandatory?
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's what they say about "Climate Change" too.
    The reason people are skeptical of climate change is that their models are complicated, and when the projections don't come to fruition they go back and adjust the models.

    Vaccines don't suffer that phenomenon. We can watch the disease rates fall exactly as predicted when the vaccine rates hit a certain level in the population. There is no debate about that.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Which vaccines are mandatory?
    Are you serious? Governments are always making vaccinations mandatory. I'm not taking about the US federal government, but lots of other countries have done it. In the US, most states make vaccinations a prerequisite to attend government schools and exemptions are usually only granted based on need. On the federal level, you are required to be vaccinated to serve in the military.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy

    Listen, I'm with you on the efficacy. I'm just trying to explain the push back. I don't think you get that in a free society. You will still have some people that choose not to take them, but you don't end up with all the conspiracy stuff.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Are you serious? Governments are always making vaccinations mandatory. I'm not taking about the US federal government, but lots of other countries have done it. In the US, most states make vaccinations a prerequisite to attend government schools and exemptions are usually only granted based on need. On the federal level, you are required to be vaccinated to serve in the military.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy

    Listen, I'm with you on the efficacy. I'm just trying to explain the push back. I don't think you get that in a free society. You will still have some people that choose not to take them, but you don't end up with all the conspiracy stuff.
    It's almost like they know that there are enough problems that they need to make them mandatory if they want people to take them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's almost like they know that there are enough problems that they need to make them mandatory if they want people to take them.
    It's almost like they know there's a subset of people who are literally too $#@!ing stupid to vaccinate themselves.
    Last edited by angelatc; 01-07-2019 at 04:53 PM.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    It's almost like they know there's a subset of people who are literally too stupid to vaccinate themselves.
    And the government should have the power to "protect them from themselves" if you are right?

    Just how many people do you think are that "stupid"?

    Capt is right, if vaccines were safe and effective mandates and shifting the costs of bad vaccines to the taxpayer shouldn't be necessary.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Listen, I'm with you on the efficacy. I'm just trying to explain the push back. I don't think you get that in a free society. You will still have some people that choose not to take them, but you don't end up with all the conspiracy stuff.
    I'm not big on mandatory anything. But I disagree that the conspiracy noise won't exist in a free society.

    God, we live in an age where we can literally carry around the sum of the worlds knowledge in our pocket. The fact that there are people so freaking lost in their own echo chambers that they literally think vaccines are evil and disease is good is maddening. I get it - I understand the psychological need to feel superior and wise, but this death of expertise - some world where people consider extensive Google searches the same as a doctorate in biology - that will only serve hasten the end of liberty.

    And lets face it. They don't actually fact check anything.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And the government should have the power to "protect them from themselves" if you are right?

    Just how many people do you think are that "stupid"?

    Capt is right, if vaccines were safe and effective mandates and shifting the costs of bad vaccines to the taxpayer shouldn't be necessary.
    All anti-vaxxers are that stupid. That's evidenced by the fact that they exist. If the court system allowed juries of medical professionals to decide verdicts, we would not need to set up a court system that has medical professionals deciding verdicts.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    All anti-vaxxers are that stupid. That's evidenced by the fact that they exist. If the court system allowed juries of medical professionals to decide verdicts, we would not need to set up a court system that has medical professionals deciding verdicts.
    That didn't respond to anything I said.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That didn't respond to anything I said.
    Because I don't speak stupid.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Because I don't speak stupid.
    You don't seem to have any issues reading stupid, stop dodging his questions and answer it. Sorry but there is nothing stupid about the question he asked and quite frankly, I am dying t see how you can answer those question.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  24. #21
    [The Godfather of Vaccines]Dr Stanley Plotkin Under Oath - The Shocking Truth (NOT THEORY) About What Is IN Vaccines




    Dr. Stanley "Human-in-Form" Plotkin, re: experiments on orphans/mentally retarded/prisoners




    This has been posted before but I believe it needs to be put here to point out how scientists who blow the whistle on bad policies are delt with by Big pHARMa

    Whistleblower Dr. Judy Mikovits

    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There is no debate.
    Because it is forbidden.



    In an Empire of Lies, Angela. In an Empire of Lies.

    Are you really so sure that you know what the truth is?

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    All anti-vaxxers are that stupid. That's evidenced by the fact that they exist. If the court system allowed juries of medical professionals to decide verdicts, we would not need to set up a court system that has medical professionals deciding verdicts.
    And if Reality had a court system that allowed nutritional professionals to arbitrate the truth or falsehood of nutritional claims, then the food pyramid would still be True and Real.

    AMIRITE?


  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    We can watch the disease rates fall exactly as predicted when the vaccine rates hit a certain level in the population.
    But is that a good thing, Angela? Are you thinking 10,000 years into the future?

    Well are you?

    Because someone bloody has to.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The reason people are skeptical of climate change is that their models are complicated, and when the projections don't come to fruition they go back and adjust the models.

    Vaccines don't suffer that phenomenon. We can watch the disease rates fall exactly as predicted when the vaccine rates hit a certain level in the population. There is no debate about that.

    -Cause and effect, you've proven that?
    -Diseases never die out, humans never develop resistance, without
    vaccines, the human race is doomed?
    -If you give a person the flu shot (they rarely even guess which strain is going to hit/yr).
    -Can you tell us what is in those vaccines? Everything that's in them?
    -Do legislators and Big Pharma Exec really have their children inoculated with the
    same batches they give to the public, I don't mean do they go to the same outlet, I
    mean do they get the same batch?
    -Why do they' insist on the 'herd effect' , if it works , how do other non inoculated children
    pass it on to the properly compliant children?
    -Why can you not sue Big Pharma for killing your kid in a real bona fide court,
    is that because vaccines are so safe and effective?

  30. #26
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  31. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There is no debate.
    There is debate. I have watched you and donnay debate this subject for years, both thinking that each is correct.

    I know that vaccines can be very helpful and can also be dangerous. The real debate is how dangerous and is the danger or safety exaggerated.

    I think it is probably safe to say that most vaccines are mostly safe.

    What I always find strange is your apparent faith in government workers when it comes to this subject. It seems like this is the one area where you don't think there could be corruption.

    We all know that government economists push flawed Keynesian economic theories as fact. We know that nearly every part of the federal government spins for the benefits of their lobbyists.

    It seems that every bit of evidence that donnay puts forth, you write off as hog wash. At the same time it seems that every bit of evidence that you put forth is true because some government body signed off on it.

    My question to you is: Why is the CDC(or whoever) free of the corrupting influences that affect the FDA, FBI, ATF, DOD, TSA, etc?
    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  32. #28
    Dr. Brian Hooker’s official statement regarding William Thompson
    April 26, 2016

    Brian S. Hooker, Ph.D., P.E. | Science Adviser, Focus For Health

    Dr. William Thompson, senior scientist at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) contacted me during 2013 and 2014 and shared many issues regarding fraud and malfeasance in the CDC, specifically regarding the link between neurodevelopmental disorders and childhood vaccines. Dr. Thompson and I spoke on the phone more than 40 times over a 10 month period and he shared thousands of pages of CDC documents with me. Eventually, Dr. Thompson turned this information over to Congress via Rep. Bill Posey of Florida. Among the issues discussed in the phone conversations were lies told to the public by the CDC regarding the link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and neurodevelopmental disorders (including autism) as well as the links between the MMR vaccine and autism in African American males and the MMR vaccine and “isolated” autism. Isolated autism is the term coined by CDC researchers referring to all children who received an autism diagnosis without additional diagnoses of mental retardation, cerebral palsy, visual impairment or hearing impairment.

    Very recently, Mr. Richard Morgan, Esq., Dr. Thompson’s whistle blower attorney, stated that Dr. Thompson will be publishing a paper in May, 2016, where he will assert that the MMR vaccine is not linked to autism in African American males. Instead Dr. Thompson will state that socioeconomic factors alone in the African American community account for the original MMR-African American male “effect” (the effect that he is on record as stating the CDC purposefully hid). I have not been given access to Dr. Thompson’s reanalysis and therefore cannot comment regarding the forthcoming paper at this time. However, I am suspect of any analysis coming from the CDC due to the historic nature of the agency’s scientific misconduct and conflicts of interest specifically around any link between vaccines and autism.

    Regardless of the content of Dr. Thompson’s reanalysis paper, these facts remain:

    1. CDC scientists colluded to cover up a relationship between the timing of the MMR vaccine and autism in African Americans that was first discovered in November of 2001. Rather than reporting the results to the public, all data regarding this relationship were destroyed at a secret meeting held some time in August/September of 2002. This fact has been affirmed via an affidavit given by Dr. Thompson to Rep. Bill Posey in September, 2014.

    2. Dr. Thompson attempted to warn the CDC Director at the time, Dr. Julie Gerberding, regarding this relationship, prior to the February 2004 Institute of Medicine meeting on vaccines and autism. Rather than allowing Dr. Thompson to present the information at this meeting, Dr. Gerberding replaced him as a speaker with Dr. Frank Destefano, current director of the CDC’s Immunization Safety Office, where he presented fraudulent results regarding the MMR vaccine and autism. Dr. Thompson was put on administrative leave and was threatened that he would be fired due to “insubordination.”

    3. When Dr. Thompson attempted to leave the CDC later that same year, he was given a $24,000 retention bonus. Dr. Thompson’s impression of the timing of this bonus, in light of disciplinary actions taken against him earlier that year, is that CDC officials were “buying his silence” through controlling his actions as a CDC employee.

    4. Dr. Thompson has published two papers linking thimerosal exposure in infant vaccines to tics in boys (Thompson et al. 2007 and Barile et al. 2012). CDC fraudulently maintains on their website that “There is no evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site.” (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/). The tic result was also affirmed in the earlier CDC publication by Verstraeten et al. (2003) and the Andrews et al. (2004) publication.

    5. CDC pressured Dr. Thompson to downplay the tic result of his analysis in his 2007 paper. He was instructed to deemphasize the tic result by the CDC’s Chief Science Officer, Dr. Tanja Popovic, by emphasizing that the “major finding of the study” was “there is NO associations (sic) of thimerosal exposure with the great majority of the outcomes.” Dr. Popovic also instructed Dr. Thompson to interpret any negative outcomes as “chance findings.”

    6. CDC also pressured Dr. Thompson to withhold publication of his 2012 paper which reported a relationship between thimerosal and tics. Dr. Ed Travathan, head of the CDC’s National Center for Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, stated in an April 27, 2009 memo to him that the analysis was sound except for the tic results and that they should be omitted from the publication. Since the tic result was the only result that had a consistent negative relationship with thimerosal exposure, it seemed that Dr. Thompson’s superiors were specifically concerned that thimerosal’s safety and use not be questioned. As an epidemiologist, Dr. Thompson was justifiably concerned and critical of the CDC’s action to approve the paper for publication only after the CDC took the extraordinary step of adding an expert in tics to water down the paper to state, “This finding should be interpreted with caution due to limitations in the measurement of tics and the limited biological plausibility regarding a causal relationship.”

    Thompson himself instructed me regarding the link between thimerosal and “autism like features” and stated that “tics were like five times more common in children with autism.” Yet the CDC will not recommend thimerosal-free vaccines and thimerosal is still used in many flu shots given to infants and pregnant women in the U.S.

    Beyond this, the CDC, through the fraud and scientific malfeasance revealed by Dr. Thompson and others, has been shown repeatedly to be a conflicted, dysfunctional agency having no business stewarding vaccine safety for the United States. I join the call from Dr. William Thompson and many others to remove vaccine safety surveillance activities from the CDC to an entity completely independent of the CDC and Department of Health and Human Services as a whole. Again, the revelations of Dr. Thompson go far beyond issues with the MMR vaccine and affirm my own inquiry of the CDC starting in 2001. Please join me in calling for an immediate Congressional investigation of this agency.
    https://www.focusforhealth.org/dr-br...liam-thompson/
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by H_H View Post
    Because it is forbidden.



    In an Empire of Lies, Angela. In an Empire of Lies.

    Are you really so sure that you know what the truth is?
    I know that that outdated food pyramid has nothing to do with vaccines. But here - I have a pyramid too!!!

    Last edited by angelatc; 01-07-2019 at 04:59 PM.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    There is debate. I have watched you and donnay debate this subject for years, both thinking that each is correct.

    I know that vaccines can be very helpful and can also be dangerous. The real debate is how dangerous and is the danger or safety exaggerated.

    I think it is probably safe to say that most vaccines are mostly safe.

    What I always find strange is your apparent faith in government workers when it comes to this subject. It seems like this is the one area where you don't think there could be corruption.

    We all know that government economists push flawed Keynesian economic theories as fact. We know that nearly every part of the federal government spins for the benefits of their lobbyists.

    It seems that every bit of evidence that donnay puts forth, you write off as hog wash. At the same time it seems that every bit of evidence that you put forth is true because some government body signed off on it.

    My question to you is: Why is the CDC(or whoever) free of the corrupting influences that affect the FDA, FBI, ATF, DOD, TSA, etc?
    Because everything DOnnaY puts together IS hogwash. She's got the mental capacity of an 8th grader.

    If you're asking why I side with rational professionals who have advanced degrees like molecular and cellular biology over a high school drop out who believes that there is a global plot involving all the governments, corporations and universities in the world, then I have to say that's just a stupid question.
    Last edited by angelatc; 01-07-2019 at 04:54 PM.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

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