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Thread: The Vaccination Debate

  1. #241
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #242
    Statement on Federal Vaccine Mandates

    To: Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee, House Energy and Commerce Committee
    Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions
    Re: Statement federal vaccine mandates
    Feb. 26, 2019

    The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) strongly opposes federal interference in medical decisions, including mandated vaccines. After being fully informed of the risks and benefits of a medical procedure, patients have the right to reject or accept that procedure. The regulation of medical practice is a state function, not a federal one. Governmental preemption of patients’ or parents’ decisions about accepting drugs or other medical interventions is a serious intrusion into individual liberty, autonomy, and parental decisions about child-rearing.

    A public health threat is the rationale for the policy on mandatory vaccines. But how much of a threat is required to justify forcing people to accept government-imposed risks? Regulators may intervene to protect the public against a one-in-one million risk of a threat such as cancer from an involuntary exposure to a toxin, or-one-in 100,000 risk from a voluntary (e.g. occupational) exposure. What is the risk of death, cancer, or crippling complication from a vaccine? There are no rigorous safety studies of sufficient power to rule out a much lower risk of complications, even one in 10,000, for vaccines. Such studies would require an adequate number of subjects, a long duration (years, not days), an unvaccinated control group (“placebo” must be truly inactive such as saline, not the adjuvant or everything-but-the-intended-antigen), and consideration of all adverse health events (including neurodevelopment disorders).

    Vaccines are necessarily risky, as recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court and by Congress. The Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has paid some $4 billion in damages, and high hurdles must be surmounted to collect compensation. The damage may be so devastating that most people would prefer restored function to a multimillion-dollar damage award.

    The smallpox vaccine is so dangerous that you can’t get it now, despite the weaponization of smallpox. Rabies vaccine is given only after a suspected exposure or to high-risk persons such as veterinarians. The whole-cell pertussis vaccine was withdrawn from the U.S. market, a decade later than from the Japanese market, because of reports of severe permanent brain damage. The acellular vaccine that replaced it is evidently safer, though somewhat less effective.

    The risk: benefit ratio varies with the frequency and severity of disease, vaccine safety, and individual patient factors. These must be evaluated by patient and physician, not imposed by a government agency.

    https://aapsonline.org/measles-outbr...q_jjiCkCH_QLBQ
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  4. #243
    If we are the PROPERTY of the Govt, then they can do with our bodies as they see fit. If we are FREE, then we own ourselves, including our body, and can choose for ourselves what happens to our own bodies. Forced Vaccinations are the most blatant VIOLATION of our RIGHT of SELF OWNERSHIP.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  5. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    One of the worst thing governments ever did was make vaccinations mandatory. If these things were strictly left to the free market, these same people would be lining up to buy 'em like Iphones. But no... Governments overstepped and people, as they should, became suspicious.
    I agree with almost every position you hold in your posts. I do absolutely agree Government overstepped their authority. however, in this instance, I respectfully disagree that people would be so enthusiastic to go get vaccines. I believe the people's reluctance and suspicion towards vaccines is exactly what inspired the government overreach.

    "Whereas between 1978 and 1981 only nine product-liability suits were filed against DTP manufacturers, by the mid-1980’s the suits numbered more than 200 each year. This destabilized the DTP vaccine market, causing two of the three domestic manufacturers to withdraw; and the remaining manufacturer, Lederle Laboratories, estimated that its potential tort liability exceeded its annual sales by a factor of 200. Vaccine shortages arose when Lederle had production problems in 1984."

    Page #2 of former Supreme Court Justice Scalia's delivered opinion.
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-152.pdf
    Last edited by Leaning Libertarian; 03-07-2019 at 12:37 PM.

  6. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Leaning Libertarian View Post
    I agree with almost every position you hold in your posts. I do absolutely agree Government overstepped their authority. however, in this instance, I respectfully disagree that people would be so enthusiastic to go get vaccines. I believe the people's reluctance and suspicion towards vaccines is exactly what inspired the government overreach.

    "Whereas between 1978 and 1981 only nine product-liability suits were filed against DTP manufacturers, by the mid-1980’s the suits numbered more than 200 each year. This destabilized the DTP vaccine market, causing two of the three domestic manufacturers to withdraw; and the remaining manufacturer, Lederle Laboratories, estimated that its potential tort liability exceeded its annual sales by a factor of 200. Vaccine shortages arose when Lederle had production problems in 1984."
    People wouldn´t be sueing big pharma and actually make a profit if the vaccines have no severe adverse effects.
    Furthermore, despite the claims of big pharma, I have seen NO evidence that vaccines actually prevent disease...
    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page2

  7. #246
    Heard today on the radio that the flu season is not over. The update is that there have been 40 deaths in Connecticut this year. Once again I ask how did they claim 80,000 deaths last year?

  8. #247

    Not fair , there was a guy in his mom's basement in So Dakota that
    hadn't been vaccinated, so see....

  9. #248
    NIH officials lying.



    All credit to Del Bigtree. Watch the whole video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wiq7tdaP6k Head official in a hearing about vaccine misinformation caught telling a lie under oath. You gotta watch the whole video it's incredible!
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?



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  11. #249
    FYI: Dr. Messonnier is Rod Rosenstein's sister. Just thought I would throw that in.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  12. #250
    One of the arguments against those “dangerous” anti-vaxxers is that they “cause” epidemics. The argument is something like if more than 95% of the population would be “immunised” they can’t spread epidemics – the myth of herd immunity: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...keting-Gimmick


    According to the following scientific looking report it could actually be the other way around for those magical flu vaccines (that at best could protect you against last year´s flu virus)...

    People that were vaccinated in the last 2 years “fine-aerosol” shed more than six times - 6.3 - the amount of infectious flu A virus than individuals that weren´t vaccinated in the last 2 years.
    Self-reported vaccination for the current season was associated with a trend (P < 0.10) toward higher viral shedding in fine-aerosol samples; vaccination with both the current and previous year’s seasonal vaccines, however, was significantly associated with greater fine-aerosol shedding in unadjusted and adjusted models (P < 0.01). In adjusted models, we observed 6.3 (95% CI 1.9–21.5) times more aerosol shedding among cases with vaccination in the current and previous season compared with having no vaccination in those two seasons. Vaccination was not associated with coarse-aerosol or NP shedding (P > 0.10). The association of vaccination and shedding was significant for influenza A (P = 0.03) but not for influenza B (P = 0.83) infections (Table S4).
    This suggests that vaccines “promote lung inflammation, airway closure, and aerosol generation”. More study is needed to confirm these hypotheses.
    Another interesting conclusion is that men have a threefold greater shedding impact of coughing than women.

    Jing Yan et al. - Infectious virus in exhaled breath of symptomatic seasonal influenza cases from a college community (2018): https://www.pnas.org/content/115/5/1081

    Do NOT ever read my posts.
    Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...he-world/page2

  13. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Antibodies in the urine is not "shedding" where somebody is infected by a person recently given a live vaccine. Did somebody contract measles from that urine? It is actually normal and found even in healthy people following vaccination who exhibit zero symptoms of measles.
    Yea but, for some reason hospitals that treat cancer patients don't want someone who has been recently vaccinated around their patients because of potential shedding...

  14. #252

    Thumbs down Collusion against anti-vaxx

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  15. #253

  16. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by navy-vet View Post
    Dumbasses are going to be our undoing....
    https://www.futurism.com/fda-anti-va...cause-epidemic
    If vaccines work so well, what is the problem?

    The FDA should be more concerned about illegal immigrants that are coming from 3rd world countries, not because they are unvaccinated, but because they are coming here malnourished from filthy regions bringing in diseases or shedding disease to others after vaccinated.

    Here is a good article:

    Measles Outbreaks: How a Witch Hunt* Against Parents of Unvaccinated Children Was Unleashed

    We are witness to an orchestrated frenzy that has been revved-up by vaccine stakeholders – i.e., those who have a direct or indirect financial stake in vaccines– through the corporate / academic institutions that employ them. Their unified objective is to achieve maximum utilization of vaccines, and total compliance with vaccination schedules set by the government in collaboration with vaccine manufacturers.

    During the measles outbreak in California in 2015, a large number of suspected cases occurred in recent vaccines. Of the 194 measles virus sequences obtained in the United States in 2015, 73 were identified as vaccine sequences.

    Contrary to the barrage of “fake news” promulgated by government public health officials and the media to influence public opinion, the fact is, most childhood infectious disease “outbreaks” include both vaccinated and unvaccinated children. What’s more, when the infection has been tested, vaccine strain has often been identified as the cause of infection.

    In 2015, a “measles outbreak” in California’s Disney Land garnered nationwide front page publicity and dire warnings by public health officials and vaccine “authorities”. They generated high public anxiety. This fear mongering led to the demonization of unvaccinated children, who were perceived as the spreaders of disease.

    Never disclosed to the public, but known to CDC officials is the following evidence that has finally been published in the Journal of Clinical Microbiology (2017):

    “During the measles outbreak in California in 2015, a large number of suspected cases occurred in recent vaccinees. Of the 194 measles virus sequences obtained in the United States in 2015, 73 were identified as vaccine sequences (R. J. McNall, unpublished data).”[1]

    Rebecca J. McNall, a co-author of the published report, is a CDC official in the Division of Viral Diseases, who had the data proving that the measles outbreak was in part caused by the vaccine. It is evidence of the vaccine’s failure to provide immunity.

    But this crucial information has been concealed, and continues to be withheld from the public. After all, how many have read the belated disclosure in the Journal of Microbiology?

    So, the mumps outbreak at Texas detention centers occurred following children’s MMR vaccination! Does anyone fail to see the connection between vaccination and an infectious disease outbreak?

    Current Mumps Outbreak Following Vaccination

    The Texas Tribune headline announced: Nearly 200 People In Texas Detention Facilities Have Contracted Mumps, March 1 2019. Since October, 186 children and adults contracted mumps at migrant detention facilities across Texas, according to a state health agency. These include immigrants and employees.

    Lara Anton, a spokeswoman for the Department of State Health Services, said in an email that patients range in age from 13-66 and that “there has been no reported transmission to the community.” She added that the state doesn’t know the vaccination status of detained migrant adults or the children who entered the U.S. with them but that “all unaccompanied minors are vaccinated when they are detained.”

    The Texas cases are not unique! Numerous similar outbreaks of mumps in have occurred in vaccinated children in New York, and in the U.S. Territory of Guam in 2009.[2]

    So, the mumps outbreak at Texas detention centers occurred following children’s MMR vaccination! Does anyone fail to see the connection between vaccination and an infectious disease outbreak?

    CDC Pink Book acknowledges:

    “From 1985 through 1988, 42% of cases occurred in persons who were vaccinated on or after their first birthday. During these years, 68% of cases in school-aged children (5–19 years) occurred among those who had been appropriately vaccinated. The occurrence of measles among previously vaccinated children (i.e., vaccine failure) led to a recommendation for a second dose in this age group.

    During the 1989 -1991 measles resurgence, incidence rates for infants were more than twice as high as those in any other age group. The mothers of many infants who developed measles were young, and their measles immunity was most often due to vaccination rather than infection with wild virus. As a result, a smaller amount of antibody was transferred across the placenta to the fetus, compared with antibody transfer from mothers who had higher antibody titers resulting from wild-virus infection. The lower quantity of antibody [in the vaccine] resulted in immunity that waned more rapidly, making infants susceptible at a younger age than in the past.”

    … 38% of measles cases in the U.S. were in vaccinated persons.

    CDC further acknowledges that: despite relatively high vaccination rates, small measles outbreaks continue to occur. Since 2008, most of these outbreaks were imported or linked to importation from other countries. In 2011, CDC reported 220 measles cases – “62% were in persons not vaccinated.” That means that 38% of measles cases in the U.S. were in vaccinated persons.

    The CDC Pink Book further acknowledges that: “Some studies indicate that secondary vaccine failure (waning immunity) may occur after successful vaccination”. Evidence of MMR vaccine-induced infection undermines the protective rationale for its indiscriminate, mass use, much less, mandating its use against parents’ objections.

    200 measles cases in the U.S. do not justify the current media frenzy;
    The empirical evidence is based on reality; the evidence cannot be wiped out by the faith-based “safe and effective” chant.

    Empirical evidence refutes the faked epidemiological vaccine studies that are only draped with the mantle of “science”.

    200 measles cases in the U.S. do not justify the current media frenzy; this frenzy is fomented by collaborating vaccine stakeholders with financial conflicts of interest who should be held accountable for subjecting an unknown number of children to defective vaccines – some of which were the cause of infectious disease outbreaks.

    Two congressional hearings called for enforcement of mandatory childhood vaccination, citing the current measles outbreaks. The committees invited only vaccine promoters who endorsed mandatory vaccination of children, but not of adults.

    February 27th hearing, the House Committee on Energy and Commerce:

    Dr. Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases declared: “Risks from vaccines are almost non-measurable…” In an earlier interview with Frontline, Dr. Fauci is on record stating:

    “We know historically that it’s much more difficult to get adults vaccinated for a variety of sociological and other reasons, whereas when you have the children, you can get it out of the way …”

    Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at the CDC declared:

    “I do believe that parents’ concerns about vaccines leads to undervaccination, and most of the cases that we’re seeing are in unvaccinated communities. Outbreaks of measles occur when measles gets into these communities of unvaccinated people. The only way to protect against measles is to get vaccinated.”

    March 5th hearing, Senate Health, Education, Labor & Pensions (HELP) committee: John G. Boyle, CEO of the Immune Deficiency Foundation (whose core benefactors are bio-pharma corporations) upped the decibel, declaring:

    “The current decline in vaccine usage is literally bringing back plagues of the past.”

    Senator Rand Paul, a HELP Committee member, was the only member of the committee who voiced some reservations about the stampede toward depriving U.S. citizens of their human right to choose what’s in the best interest of their children!

    Why is the public health armamentarium aimed at eliminating “unvaccinated” children rather than on preventing a true catastrophic epidemic of neurodevelopmental injuries in children?

    The focus of concern and public anger should be directed at the failure of the public health establishment to methodically investigate the contributing cause[s] of the genuine, empirically documented childhood epidemic – the relentless, ever-increasing rise in the number of neurologically injured children has climbed to 1 in 36 in the U.S. The numbers of those affected is now in the millions.



    *Witch Hunt defined: “the searching out for persecution and deliberate harassment of those with unpopular views” Merriam Webster’s; “a rigorous campaign to round up or expose dissenters on the pretext of safeguarding the welfare of the public” Collins English Dictionary.

    References:

    Journal of Clinical Microbiology (2017)
    CDC. Pink Book, Chapter 15 Mumps
    CDC Pink Book, Chapter 13 Measles
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/n...ated-children/
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

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