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Thread: MAGA's immediate Syria withdrawal annoucement was technically not fakenews

  1. #1

    MAGA's immediate Syria withdrawal annoucement was technically not fakenews

    At the time MAGA meant what he said "we are leaving Syria now" but such big decisions may have to be reevaluated after call from Israeli PM and other funders/influencers inside US who may have better understanding of threats Iran poses to our closest allies in the region.
    That said, this is WaPo, so may need to wait for second opinion on this alleged reversal/flip flop of sorts by leadership of GOP-Adelson:

    Syria withdrawal has been paused

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G65BqqgsDQo

    Israeli official: Trump agreed to Netanyahu request to stagger Syria exit
    Itamar Eichner, AgenciesPublished: 12.31.18


    Senator Graham , second from left, in Israel with like minded Senators and Senior White House advisors


    Lindsey Graham’s description of Trump’s Syria withdrawal plan sounds suspiciously like a plan to stay in Syria


    By Adam Taylor
    December 31 at 11:23 AM
    Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) has become one of President Trump’s key allies on Capitol Hill. However, the famously hawkish politician was publicly dismayed this month when Trump announced he would pull U.S. troops out of Syria.
    After the announcement, Graham issued a statement that denounced the decision as “an Obama-like mistake made by the Trump Administration.”
    But this weekend, the senator had a change of heart after a meeting at the White House, later telling reporters the president “told me some things I didn’t know that made me feel a lot better about where we’re headed in Syria.”
    What explains Graham’s newfound optimism about Trump’s plan to leave Syria?
    Well, there is one big but rather confusing reason. In Graham’s retelling, Trump’s plan to leave Syria sounds suspiciously like a plan to stay in Syria — one that could be extended indefinitely, too. Speaking to reporters Sunday, Graham described Trump’s Syria plan as a “pause situation” rather than a withdrawal.
    The senator went into more detail in some tweets Sunday evening:
    The President will make sure any withdrawal from Syria will be done in a fashion to ensure:

    1) ISIS is permanently destroyed.

    2) Iran doesn’t fill in the back end, and

    3) our Kurdish allies are protected.
    — Lindsey Graham (@LindseyGrahamSC) December 30, 2018

    Considering these three elements, a full withdrawal would not be possible in the immediate future.
    Trump has previously suggested the Islamic State militant group, also known as ISIS, has been defeated — which is why he feels comfortable pulling U.S. troops out of Syria. “We have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there during the Trump Presidency,” he tweeted Dec. 19.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...an-stay-syria/


    Also, despite Gen Clark's comments, any nefarious foreign lobbies/ groups are very unlikely to use any tactics to initimidate or pressure MAGA using such tactics as may have been used to pressure other politicians with aim to influence US foreign policy in the past.


    Publisher of the ‘Atlanta Jewish Times’ suggests Mossad should assassinate Obama
    Adam Horowitz on January 20, 2012
    John Cook reports at Gawker:
    Andrew Adler, the owner and publisher of the Atlanta Jewish Times, a weekly newspaper serving Atlanta’s Jewish community, devoted his January 13, 2012 column to the thorny problem of the U.S. and Israel’s diverging views on the threat posed by Iran. Basically Israel has three options, he wrote: Strike Hezbollah and Hamas, strike Iran, or “order a hit” on Barack Obama. Either way, problem solved!
    Here’s how Adler laid out “option three” in his list of scenarios facing Israeli president Benjamin Netanyahu (the column, which was forwarded to us by a tipster, isn’t online, but you can read a copy here):
    Three, give the go-ahead for U.S.-based Mossad agents to take out a president deemed unfriendly to Israel in order for the current vice president to take his place, and forcefully dictate that the United States’ policy includes its helping the Jewish state obliterate its enemies.
    Yes, you read “three” correctly. Order a hit on a president in order to preserve Israel’s existence. Think about it. If I have thought of this Tom Clancy-type scenario, don’t you think that this almost unfathomable idea has been discussed in Israel’s most inner circles?
    Another way of putting “three” in perspective goes something like this: How far would you go to save a nation comprised of seven million lives…Jews, Christians and Arabs alike?
    You have got to believe, like I do, that all options are on the table.



    Related








    Wesley Clark on Trump’s Syria withdrawal: ‘Did Erdogan blackmail the president?'
    By Michael Burke - 12/24/18
    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4...-the-president


    Considering MAGA's fealess personality, Scaramucci's assessment seems more credible that Gen Clark's.

    Loyal Trump supporter Scaramucci says Trump is "not blackmailable"



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  3. #2
    If he flip-flopped once, he could possibly flip back to his original plan to withdraw the troops. MIGA to MAGA?

    Or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  4. #3
    I'm not opposed to being nimble and listening to others when making big decsions... but in the end an image of decisive leadership will need to be created to project strong leadership. And the order of discussions should be carefully planned so that that last party to be listened to are America-First folks.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    If he flip-flopped once, he could possibly flip back to his original plan to withdraw the troops. MIGA to MAGA?

    Or not.
    He either will or he won't. Words have already been said, does he follow through or does he equivocate? This one is too important to $#@! around with and look like a clown.
    "The Patriarch"

    willie with tan lines: enjoy the shots and the woman
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This one is too important to $#@! around with and look like a clown.
    Rut roh.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  7. #6

  8. #7
    Seems to me it was:

    (a) an ill-thought tantrum motivated by personnel problems within the white house,

    (b) not a real withdrawal of US forces from Syria (given that covert support and senseless bombing on WMD pretexts will continue),

    (c) not real even as to "boots on the ground," since they're probably going back in soon enough,

    and (d) just enough to rope in the dregs of the electorate.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  9. #8

    Visualize World Peace

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?



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  11. #9
    Earlier, Trump went to Twitter to defend his decision to withdraw American troops from Syria, accusing his critics of hypocrisy. He noted that any other US president would have been applauded for such a decision.
    The New York Times has cited two unnamed US administration officials as saying that President Donald Trump will give the Pentagon about four months to withdraw American troops from Syria.
    The officials referred to the US president’s meeting with Lt. Gen. Paul J. LaCamera, head of the Combined Joint Task Force fighting Daesh* in the region, during which Trump said that the troops could have several months to ensure a “succinct departure”.
    Pentagon spokesman Sean Robertson, in turn, was quoted by the New York Times as saying that “I’ll let the president’s words speak for themselves.”


    More at: https://www.infowars.com/trump-gives...ticism-report/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10

  13. #11
    enhanced_deficit and his misleading headlines and statements.

    A David Icke-tard.

    Lizard people, bro, lizard people.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    enhanced_deficit and his misleading headlines and statements.

    A David Icke-tard.

    Lizard people, bro, lizard people.
    A pretty Pointless personal attack,,considering we are still in Syria with no sign of movement..

    I was hoping the Clown in Chief would do something right.. even by accident.
    BUT we are in fact still supporting Syrian Rebels and ISIS assets.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #13
    Has Trump Been Outmaneuvered on Syria Troop Withdrawal?

    Trump’s possible backtracking on withdrawal from Syria means he may have been once again outmaneuvered by the Deep State, says Virginia State Senator Dick Black.

    By Senator Dick Black
    Virginia State Senate, 13th District

    The mainstream media refuses to acknowledge that the hardest fighting against ISIS and al Qaeda has been done by Syria and its allies. Indeed, we label Iran’s fight against Syrian terrorists as “malign activity,” ignoring the fact that al Qaeda in Syria [al Nusra] is the progeny of the al Qaeda force that highjacked jets and flew them into the Twin Towers and Pentagon, killing 3,000 Americans on 9-11.

    Pulitzer Prize-winning author, Seymour Hersh, wrote that a Defense Intelligence Agency review of Syrian policy in 2013 revealed that clandestine CIA Program Timber Sycamore, had degenerated into a program that armed all terrorists indiscriminately, specifically including ISIS and al Qaeda. I seriously doubt that this was merely a program failure. There is strong evidence that the U.S. planned to overthrow Syria in 2001; the U.S. Embassy in Damascus issued a detailed strategy to destabilize Syria in 2006–long before the so-called “Arab Spring;” and that our focus has consistently been on toppling the duly elected, constitutional and UN-recognized government of Syria.

    It’s sickening to hear these clowns repeatedly claim that “Assad murdered 500,000 of his people,” as though the U.S.-backed terrorists have played no role in the killings. I’ve viewed hundreds of beheadings and crucifixions online but none committed by Syria troops–all were proudly posted by the hellish filth that we’ve recruited, armed and trained for the past eight years. Major war crimes, like beheading 250 Syrian soldiers after running them across the desert in their underpants, were scarcely mentioned by the MSM.

    During a five-hour drive across liberated Syria this September, I spoke with many people, from desert shepherds, to nuns and Muslim religious. There were palpable expressions of joy that the Syrian armed forces had liberated them from the terrorists. That was coupled with broad-based, unequivocal support for President Bashar al Assad and the Syrian Armed Forces.

    This disastrous war would never have occurred without American planning and execution. And it would have ended years and hundreds of thousands of casualties ago had we closed our training and logistics bases in Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The Syrian War had little to do with the “Arab Spring” and much to do with clandestine actions of CIA, MI-6, Mossad, Turkish MIT, French DGSE, Saudi GID and others, working with the savage Syrian Muslim Brotherhood. We trained and recruited far more terrorists than we killed, and we will encounter those survivors again, at other times and places.

    It is instructive that, despite President Donald Trump’s strong directive on a rapid Syrian pull-out, apparently not one soldier or Marine has departed Syria. And the argument that they’re tied up with fighting ISIS doesn’t hold water. On Syria’s southern border, across from Jordan, lies the U.S. base at al Tanf. ISIS is nowhere around. Al Tanf’s sole purpose is to hold and defend the sovereign territory of Syria (using a 55 km no-fly zone). It denies Syria the right to restore order and provide aid to starving Syrians trapped in the American zone.

    Al Tanf is the canary in the Syrian coal mine. If Trump’s pullout has any credibility, the 800 or so troops and equipment assigned there could be withdrawn across the Jordanian border within 24 hours. Their failure to do so suggests duplicity by our foreign policy shadow government. The Pentagon seems unresponsive to the Commander-in-Chief, and he has surrounded himself with advisors whose allegiance does not lie with him–or with the American people.

    Republican Senator Richard H. Black represents the 13th district of Virginia, encompassing parts of both Loudoun and Prince Williams Counties in northern Virginia.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2019/01/0...op-withdrawal/
    "The Patriarch"

    willie with tan lines: enjoy the shots and the woman
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    we are still in Syria with no sign of movement..
    For one, there has already been movement.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...rn-Syria/page6

    For two, Iran, Turkey, and Russia are moving, and making gestures, having meetings, etc.

    You people always talk out your ass. You never actually know what is going on, and just make broad assumptions.
    Just like stupid poopyfaced puppy The Count, and his claim "nothing is happening in Korea"
    You two using the logic of, "well I'm ignorant, so I am right"

    I've been following this civil war every $#@!ing day for years.

    Now that trump announces a move, you all talk like you are experts.

    GoldenEquity has been posting about the war here every day, with incredibly detailed analysis.

    So stop acting like you have a god damned clue.

    And Enhanced_Deficit is an Icketard.
    Lizard people David Icke.

    posting his "rumors" and straight out lies every day with his mealy-mouthed, very unfunny tongue in cheek bull$#@!.

    Everybody in the area under control of, and around, the SDF are acting as if Trump is actually withdrawing from Syria....

    ..but the trump-haters of RPF always seem to know better.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Has Trump Been Outmaneuvered on Syria Troop Withdrawal?

    Trump’s possible backtracking on withdrawal from Syria means he may have been once again outmaneuvered by the Deep State, says Virginia State Senator Dick Black.

    By Senator Dick Black
    Virginia State Senate, 13th District

    The mainstream media refuses to acknowledge that the hardest fighting against ISIS and al Qaeda has been done by Syria and its allies. Indeed, we label Iran’s fight against Syrian terrorists as “malign activity,” ignoring the fact that al Qaeda in Syria [al Nusra] is the progeny of the al Qaeda force that highjacked jets and flew them into the Twin Towers and Pentagon, killing 3,000 Americans on 9-11.

    Pulitzer Prize-winning author, Seymour Hersh, wrote that a Defense Intelligence Agency review of Syrian policy in 2013 revealed that clandestine CIA Program Timber Sycamore, had degenerated into a program that armed all terrorists indiscriminately, specifically including ISIS and al Qaeda. I seriously doubt that this was merely a program failure. There is strong evidence that the U.S. planned to overthrow Syria in 2001; the U.S. Embassy in Damascus issued a detailed strategy to destabilize Syria in 2006–long before the so-called “Arab Spring;” and that our focus has consistently been on toppling the duly elected, constitutional and UN-recognized government of Syria.

    It’s sickening to hear these clowns repeatedly claim that “Assad murdered 500,000 of his people,” as though the U.S.-backed terrorists have played no role in the killings. I’ve viewed hundreds of beheadings and crucifixions online but none committed by Syria troops–all were proudly posted by the hellish filth that we’ve recruited, armed and trained for the past eight years. Major war crimes, like beheading 250 Syrian soldiers after running them across the desert in their underpants, were scarcely mentioned by the MSM.

    During a five-hour drive across liberated Syria this September, I spoke with many people, from desert shepherds, to nuns and Muslim religious. There were palpable expressions of joy that the Syrian armed forces had liberated them from the terrorists. That was coupled with broad-based, unequivocal support for President Bashar al Assad and the Syrian Armed Forces.

    This disastrous war would never have occurred without American planning and execution. And it would have ended years and hundreds of thousands of casualties ago had we closed our training and logistics bases in Jordan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The Syrian War had little to do with the “Arab Spring” and much to do with clandestine actions of CIA, MI-6, Mossad, Turkish MIT, French DGSE, Saudi GID and others, working with the savage Syrian Muslim Brotherhood. We trained and recruited far more terrorists than we killed, and we will encounter those survivors again, at other times and places.

    It is instructive that, despite President Donald Trump’s strong directive on a rapid Syrian pull-out, apparently not one soldier or Marine has departed Syria. And the argument that they’re tied up with fighting ISIS doesn’t hold water. On Syria’s southern border, across from Jordan, lies the U.S. base at al Tanf. ISIS is nowhere around. Al Tanf’s sole purpose is to hold and defend the sovereign territory of Syria (using a 55 km no-fly zone). It denies Syria the right to restore order and provide aid to starving Syrians trapped in the American zone.

    Al Tanf is the canary in the Syrian coal mine. If Trump’s pullout has any credibility, the 800 or so troops and equipment assigned there could be withdrawn across the Jordanian border within 24 hours. Their failure to do so suggests duplicity by our foreign policy shadow government. The Pentagon seems unresponsive to the Commander-in-Chief, and he has surrounded himself with advisors whose allegiance does not lie with him–or with the American people.

    Republican Senator Richard H. Black represents the 13th district of Virginia, encompassing parts of both Loudoun and Prince Williams Counties in northern Virginia.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2019/01/0...op-withdrawal/
    That sounds plausible. He's dealing with an empire that does what it wants, when it wants. His only real weapon is public shame, and he's reluctant to pull out that measure. Spooks don't like sunlight.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    For one, there has already been movement.
    How's that, uh, North Korea thing going?
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.




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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    How's that, uh, North Korea thing going?
    LoL


    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6729075


    Just love getting your face rubbed in it, don't you, puppy?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    For one, there has already been movement.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...rn-Syria/page6

    For two, Iran, Turkey, and Russia are moving, and making gestures, having meetings, etc.

    You people always talk out your ass. You never actually know what is going on, and just make broad assumptions.
    Just like stupid poopyfaced puppy The Count, and his claim "nothing is happening in Korea"
    You two using the logic of, "well I'm ignorant, so I am right"

    I've been following this civil war every $#@!ing day for years.

    Now that trump announces a move, you all talk like you are experts.

    GoldenEquity has been posting about the war here every day, with incredibly detailed analysis.

    So stop acting like you have a god damned clue.

    And Enhanced_Deficit is an Icketard.
    Lizard people David Icke.

    posting his "rumors" and straight out lies every day with his mealy-mouthed, very unfunny tongue in cheek bull$#@!.

    Everybody in the area under control of, and around, the SDF are acting as if Trump is actually withdrawing from Syria....

    ..but the trump-haters of RPF always seem to know better.
    BBBBut it didn't happen overnight.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    we are still in Syria with no sign of movement..
    LoL Mattis resigned. I guess you know better than Mattis what the orders are.


    You people are dense.

    Your predictions of doom and gloom are always wrong.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    LoL Mattis resigned. I guess you know better than Mattis what the orders are.


    You people are dense.

    Your predictions of doom and gloom are always wrong.
    Trump cedes Syria to Iran: 'They can do what they want there, frankly'

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    I've been following this civil war every $#@!ing day for years.
    Civil War?

    well ,, I think that explains it.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Civil War?
    Yeah.

    The Syrian Civil War.

    Ever hear of it?

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post

    ..but the trump-haters of RPF always seem to know better.
    Ron's Supporters seemed to recognize Trump for what he is.
    And Ron keeps getting proven right,, even about Trump.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Ron's Supporters seemed to recognize Trump for what he is.
    And Ron keeps getting proven right,, even about Trump.
    You mean like his son, Rand?

    Rand seems to like Trump quite a lot now.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Yeah.

    The Syrian Civil War.

    Ever hear of it?
    Regime Change.. Orchestrated Overthrow.

    DUDE,, I have read the PHUCKIN' MANUAL.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Regime Change.. Orchestrated Overthrow.

    DUDE,, I have read the PHUCKIN' MANUAL.
    It's still a civil war.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    You mean like his son, Rand?

    Rand seems to like Trump quite a lot now.
    Trump was the right choice as flawed as he is. Even Rand's statements confirm this. We chose right for once.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    You mean like his son, Rand?

    Rand seems to like Trump quite a lot now.
    Likes Israel Too Much Too.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    You mean like his son, Rand?

    Rand seems to like Trump quite a lot now.


    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1080482589176152065

    Like other Big Government Republicans who never liked Reagan, Mitt Romney wants to signal how virtuous he is in comparison to the President. Well, I’m most concerned and pleased with the actual conservative reform agenda @realDonaldTrump has achieved.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    It's still a civil war.
    Nothing Civil About it.

    and it has all been instigated and pushed by outside forces..that is not a Civil War..
    it is war by proxy.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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