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Thread: "Bake the Cake" issue reversed

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    No, the point we're arguing is whether or not he had the right to refuse service. He did. He gave a reason. You or I may think it's dumb but, as Capt pointed out, others think the Christian Baker was wrong to refuse service.

    What I or you would do in that situation is irrelevant.
    'Zackly.
    There is no spoon.



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  3. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    'Zackly.
    Can I refuse to serve a black person because they are black or a jew because they are jewish?

  4. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Can I refuse to serve a black person because they are black or a jew because they are jewish?
    If that's your wish, you should be able to under real freedom- but I wouldn't advise it.
    There is no spoon.

  5. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    'Zackly.
    Ya, and the customer has a right to call him on is bull$#@! and stand there. If he's wrong, then he can get slapped with some charges by the property owner. Turns out he was right.

    This is why Trump won. Because people who don't like Trump stick up for stupid dip$#@! behavior instead of doing the smart thing and backing off. It's quite obvious that the property owner didn't intend for his property to be used this way, so the employee was actually the one who was mis-using the property not the customer.. and it is quite clear that the property owner intended to make sales to Trump supporters. So the Trump supporter did nothing wrong.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  7. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    If that's your wish, you should be able to under real freedom- but I wouldn't advise it.
    Why would you not advise it?

  8. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    You seem to have a very complicated set of internal rules as to who must bake cakes and who need not bake cakes.

    So do you. I am willing to bet that your Obama and Hilliary voting self sided with the customers who demanded their cake be baked. Am I right?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  9. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Why would you not advise it?
    Because it's against Federal Law. Personally, I think you should be able to, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  10. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Because it's against Federal Law. Personally, I think you should be able to, though.
    Is it against the law to not serve people of a certain political affiliation?

  11. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Is it against the law to not serve people of a certain political affiliation?
    Only in a few states.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  12. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Only in a few states.
    Is there an app or something that people can refer to that outlines who is protected and where?

  13. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Is there an app or something that people can refer to that outlines who is protected and where?
    Feel free to use your preferred search engine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  14. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Is it against the law to not serve people of a certain political affiliation?
    Why are you bouncing around from blacks and Jews to political affiliation?
    "The Patriarch"



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  16. #193
    Is it a crime to call someone a Racist or use defamatory language against someone that is not accurate? Is that slander or something? Is the clerk guilty of any crimes?

  17. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Why are you bouncing around from blacks and Jews to political affiliation?
    Because in my perspective they are all the same no person is above the other.

  18. #195
    This entire thing is so stupid. The clerk would have never called the police. The clerk vacillated from the very start because he knew he was wrong. That's why he was so indecisive. Calling the cops would have intensified his dilemma. If a customer had called the pigs, then I'm guessing girly man clerk backs off. He did not want to lose his job, but his emotions got the better of him with no cops or media in the store.

    And, if the customer really wanted his product, then he would have backed off his comments after the clerk agreed to call the boss, and also after the clerk agreed to sell the product. But, at that point, the customer became more interested in egging the guy on.

    So, in the end, some dumbass loses an inconsequential job that he probably never has to put on his resume. The customer's video falls into internet oblivion after one week.

    Big deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  19. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Employee fired:

    https://twitter.com/XhaleCity/status...58394952445952

    So the owner exercised their property rights and got rid of the snowflake for trespassing.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  20. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Because in my perspective they are all the same no person is above the other.
    Ok, didn't really come off that way though.
    "The Patriarch"

  21. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    This entire thing is so stupid. The clerk would have never called the police. The clerk vacillated from the very start because he knew he was wrong. That's why he was so indecisive. Calling the cops would have intensified his dilemma. If a customer had called the pigs, then I'm guessing girly man clerk backs off. He did not want to lose his job, but his emotions got the better of him with no cops or media in the store.

    And, if the customer really wanted his product, then he would have backed off his comments after the clerk agreed to call the boss, and also after the clerk agreed to sell the product. But, at that point, the customer became more interested in egging the guy on.

    So, in the end, some dumbass loses an inconsequential job that he probably never has to put on his resume. The customer's video falls into internet oblivion after one week.

    Big deal.
    But muh vape juice.
    "The Patriarch"

  22. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    I am no legal expert but the only thing I saw in the video was a foul mouthed clerk that physically assaulted a person wanting to purchase a product. The clerk stereotyped the customer and accused him of being racist among other things.
    I saw the same thing, likely a part time gig for him. Apparently some other people saw a paragon of Libertarianism defending property rights and the NAP.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  23. #200
    The point is that people reach their conclusions not on principle, but on whether or not they agree with the reason for the refusal to do business with someone.

    If you agree that commerce should be voluntary, the reasoning of either party doesn’t matter.

    This incident just lays bare the hypocrisyof those who are not guided by principle. And as you can see in this thread, the usual suspects reveal themselves.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  25. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    This is really the best defense yet. At least it’s consistent. But the customers in both situations were clearly instigating the conflict when they were denied service. And continuing it to make a political point. Again, the aim of this thread was to highlight the hypocrisy of the responses. And it worked.
    Uh ya sorta, except you and others keep lying about what is being defended.

    The cake bake people were making a political point that gay people should be served no matter what.

    The vape dude was making a political point that leftists are hypocrites and idiots who don't respect the private property of those they work for.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  26. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The point is that people reach their conclusions not on principle, but on whether or not they agree with the reason for the refusal to do business with someone.

    If you agree that commerce should be voluntary, the reasoning of either party doesn’t matter.

    This incident just lays bare the hypocrisyof those who are not guided by principle. And as you can see in this thread, the usual suspects reveal themselves.
    What have I revealed about myself in this thread?

  27. #203
    The OP is trying to find something that isn't there.

  28. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The issue at hand here is not the incident in the tape, but the hypocritical response. That was stated in the OP. Obviously, the employee was out of line and acting like a ridiculous little baby.

    But the fact of the matter is that no one should be forced into commerce with someone against their wishes. A simple lesson that can be seen when you agree with one party or the other but gets people all flustered when the tables are turned.
    I believe the clerk had one job. To take people's money and hand them vape $#@!. Unless I'm greatly mistaken he was a representative to do commerce for someone else. He had one job, as they say.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  29. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Property rights FTW!
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  30. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    I believe the clerk had one job. To take people's money and hand them vape $#@!. Unless I'm greatly mistaken he was a representative to do commerce for someone else. He had one job, as they say.
    Yep, and that clerk couldn't even say, serving the Trumper was against his religious beliefs.

  31. #207
    The baker, the vape shop, Starbucks, or Kim Davis. People refusing to do business with someone and the customer demanding service.

    But people seem to line up with the customer or the business depending on their politics and the reasoning - not on the principle that anyone can refuse to serve anyone at any time for any reason.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  32. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Yep, and that clerk couldn't even say, serving the Trumper was against his religious beliefs.
    But it probably was. And the only people bothered to defend his communist State Worshipping ass are kind hearted libertarians on the internet that he probably wants sent to concentration camps.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe






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  34. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    I believe the clerk had one job. To take people's money and hand them vape $#@!. Unless I'm greatly mistaken he was a representative to do commerce for someone else. He had one job, as they say.
    Yes and if he had just done his job the customer would have come in and left with no issue and libtard could have gone back to doing whatever libtard wanted to do.

  35. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    What have I revealed about myself in this thread?
    That you suspect slander might be an actual crime (it isn't--yet).

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The baker, the vape shop, Starbucks, or Kim Davis. People refusing to do business with someone and the customer demanding service.
    Not in the Starbucks case. There non-customers refused to do business--then demanded use of the chairs and the restrooms.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-29-2018 at 04:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    My tax dollars paid to fund ISIS and make fake beheading videos. Are you saying we shouldn't get our monies worth??

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