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Thread: Critical Thoughts About This Border Wall "Crisis"

  1. #31



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    So far with the exception of Ender and myself, I am seeing blanket sentencing without due process,
    That is pure nonsense, nobody is being sentenced to anything, they are being denied PERMISSION for something they DON'T have a right to.


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    eminent domain,
    One of the reasons I don't support the wall but it is more justifiable on the border for national defense than anywhere else.


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    restriction on freedom of travel,
    There is no such thing on an international basis, we have a right to keep out people who would violate our rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    papers please,
    Securing the border will reduce the justification for that inside the country and as I said above the foreigners don't have a right to come here without following the rules we need in order to protect our rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    blowing off BoR... all being promoted.
    The BoR is not relevant, it does NOT contain a right for foreigners to enter our country without following our rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    All of you are doing a helluva fine job assisting those who you say are wrecking this country.
    You are doing a bang up job of helping them with their #1 goal right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Hell I feel freer and safer among the immigrants.
    Then move to California and enjoy the "freedom" and "safety" they have brought to that state.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Perhaps it would be prudent to take a good look at yourselves. Talk about flakes, you guys take the cake.
    Physician heal thyself.


    I have yet to hear you explain how we are going to educate millions of immigrants whose culture doesn't even give lip service to individual unalienable rights fast enough to ensure that things get better in this country instead of worse, we can't even educate enough Americans to make much progress.

    Stop telling us what not to do for just a moment and tell us what to do and explain how it will succeed.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 12-29-2018 at 01:57 AM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    03:40

    It's NOT about workers and jobs, it's about political control of the country and the fight for our rights, Ron's suggestions are good but with or without them people will still come her by the millions as long as we are wealthier than the other countries, if we don't increase border security with or without a wall then we will lose the war for our rights and become a communist country.

    Also please notice that Ron wants services denied to non-citizens, that means citizens will need to prove their citizenship, that's the dreaded "papers please" according to your simplistic anarchist way of thinking.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #34
    The Wall is a brand of Utopia. We all know that Utopia does not exist. One would be better served to lock themselves into their homes or in a box, exchanging liberty for mythical total security.

    Golf courses, farms, communities, parks, businesses... the wall would not be just an inconvenience, but would lead to bankruptcies, devestated communities and the potential to add even more people to the welfare system.

    There is no question that Welfare needs to End. But imposing costly solutions, growth of government and eminent domain that reject liberty always, always leads to tyranny.






  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    The Wall is a brand of Utopia. We all know that Utopia does not exist. One would be better served to lock themselves into their homes or in a box, exchanging liberty for mythical total security.
    That is just plain hilarious coming from an anarchist that is selling open borders utopia.
    The wall or other means of border enforcement isn't a utopia, it is a pragmatic method of mitigating a real world problem, it will not perfectly solve that problem but it will reduce it.



    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Golf courses, farms, communities, parks, businesses... the wall would not be just an inconvenience, but would lead to bankruptcies, devestated communities and the potential to add even more people to the welfare system.

    There is no question that Welfare needs to End. But imposing costly solutions, growth of government and eminent domain that reject liberty always, always leads to tyranny.





    I don't support the wall.

    Now tell us what we should do to actively secure the border, ending welfare is insufficient because they will still come in excessive numbers as long as we are more wealthy than other countries and ending welfare would make us more wealthy.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That is just plain hilarious coming from an anarchist that is selling open borders utopia.
    The wall or other means of border enforcement isn't a utopia, it is a pragmatic method of mitigating a real world problem, it will not perfectly solve that problem but it will reduce it.





    I don't support the wall.

    Now tell us what we should do to actively secure the border, ending welfare is insufficient because they will still come in excessive numbers as long as we are more wealthy than other countries and ending welfare would make us more wealthy.

    I am not selling anything. But I am also not buying into anything that would infringe the rights of others. They clearly do not want that wall. It has already caused some businesses to fold, which put workers out of work, and one town in the above video to belly up.

    I do not know why you keep asking me what the solution is. If I had a clear cut immediate solution it would already be in progress. That would be like me asking you what the immediate solution is to end the NSA, and while waiting for your answer, I would demand internet companies to give their businesses up to the Fed, by force if necessary, until NSA is abolished.

    It is quite the conundrum, what this government does to appease the deep state. But I will not be responsible for supporting a wall and then live with the consequences of driving rightful property and business owners who employ workers out to dry.

    I ABHOR Welfare. That is among the very first topics that I discuss at every event that I attend. But I try to keep a level head, so that I do not inadvertently suggest solutions that would infringe other Rights. Welfare has been around for a very long time, even republicans are numb to it. The good thing is, the more I talk about it, the more upset the attendees become. Now I am hoping that Welfare will be on the front burner around this country sooner rather than later.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I am not selling anything. But I am also not buying into anything that would infringe the rights of others. They clearly do not want that wall. It has already caused some businesses to fold, which put workers out of work, and one town in the above video to belly up.

    I do not know why you keep asking me what the solution is. If I had a clear cut immediate solution it would already be in progress. That would be like me asking you what the immediate solution is to end the NSA, and while waiting for your answer, I would demand internet companies to give their businesses up to the Fed, by force if necessary, until NSA is abolished.

    It is quite the conundrum, what this government does to appease the deep state. But I will not be responsible for supporting a wall and then live with the consequences of driving rightful property and business owners who employ workers out to dry.

    I ABHOR Welfare. That is among the very first topics that I discuss at every event that I attend. But I try to keep a level head, so that I do not inadvertently suggest solutions that would infringe other Rights. Welfare has been around for a very long time, even republicans are numb to it. The good thing is, the more I talk about it, the more upset the attendees become. Now I am hoping that Welfare will be on the front burner around this country sooner rather than later.
    In other words you don't believe that there is anything we should do to actively secure the border.

    I can tell you what to do about the NSA, you can campaign against it with your elected officials, you can sue and try to take the case to SCOTUS or you can launch a revolution.
    I can't guarantee that any of those will succeed but those are the things you can do about it.

    Am I wrong in the first line of this post? Is there ANYTHING you believe we can do to improve active border security?

    Do you have any idea how a libertarian country with no border or immigration controls is supposed to avoid losing its liberty to the millions of people who would move in on it for the wealth without understanding or believing in the principles that created the wealth?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    In other words you don't believe that there is anything we should do to actively secure the border.

    I can tell you what to do about the NSA, you can campaign against it with your elected officials, you can sue and try to take the case to SCOTUS or you can launch a revolution.
    I can't guarantee that any of those will succeed but those are the things you can do about it.

    Am I wrong in the first line of this post? Is there ANYTHING you believe we can do to improve active border security?

    Do you have any idea how a libertarian country with no border or immigration controls is supposed to avoid losing its liberty to the millions of people who would move in on it for the wealth without understanding or believing in the principles that created the wealth?
    You just answered your own question. Contact every elected official throughout the country. Demand that you do not want another cent spent or piece of sh|t legislation passed. Tell them that they are being paid to enforce the current law, and that you insist government workers start earning their paycheck.

    I (actually many of us) have been doing that in my state, the anarchist that I am. Perhaps you and others here can do the same in your states, the republicans that you are ;-)

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You just answered your own question. Contact every elected official throughout the country. Demand that you do not want another cent spent or piece of sh|t legislation passed. Tell them that they are being paid to enforce the current law, and that you insist government workers start earning their paycheck.

    I (actually many of us) have been doing that in my state, the anarchist that I am. Perhaps you and others here can do the same in your states, the republicans that you are ;-)
    And demand that they do what?
    Expand the Border Patrol?
    Put the Military on the border?
    Expand ICE and increase workplace raids?
    Reduce immigration quotas?
    Tighten the asylum system and impose quotas on it?


    What measures would you find acceptable that we should campaign for?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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