View Poll Results: Anti-Trust Law Is...

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  • ....destructive interventionism which libertarians ought to oppose.

    5 100.00%
  • ...MAGArific

    0 0%
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Thread: Anti-Trust Law Is...

  1. #1

    Anti-Trust Law Is...

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  3. #2
    Are we playing hide and seek, John?

  4. #3
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    Revolution 3.0's inspiration for this thread and poll came from this video I posted six minutes before he started the poll.

    A particular incident that has happened recently does indeed look like anti-trust law has been violated.

    You can see the non-partisan, apolitical tech lawyer's analysis here:



    https://youtu.be/akJf2oz5JOM

    The thread and synopsis on the removal of SargonOfAkkad from Patreon, and subsequent destruction of a Patreon-like company that he attempted to use as an alternative (named SubscribeStar):
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eon-and-Paypal
    Last edited by UWDude; 12-24-2018 at 11:53 PM.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    He totally just did this because I just posted a story about Youtuber law saying there is an anti-trust case.
    He is trying to control the headlines.

    He didn't even have time to get the poll up, he was in such a rush.

    $#@!.

    Dual thread
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eon-and-Paypal

    You are six minutes late, $#@!.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    He totally jsut did this because I just posted a story about Youtuber law saying ther eis an anti-trust case.
    Indeed I did.

    I saw your thread and thought: huh, I wonder how many people oppose laissez faire?

    Thus the poll.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Indeed I did.

    I saw your thread and thought: huh, I wonder how many people oppose laissez faire?

    Thus the poll.
    Why don't you change your diapers an go to bed, John?

  8. #7
    So that's two opposed to the market economy, though they didn't vote.

  9. #8
    Time to expose all the fake libertarians on here who think ISPs shouldn't be allowed to deny you service for having the wrong opinions!

    Why do you all hate freedom so much? Just go and make your own internet, losers!
    "Only after disaster can we be resurrected."

    Heil Honkler!



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamL View Post
    Time to expose all the fake libertarians on here who think ISPs shouldn't be allowed to deny you service for having the wrong opinions!

    Why do you all hate freedom so much? Just go and make your own internet, losers!
    Just use two coconuts. Aloha.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamL View Post
    Time to expose all the fake libertarians on here who think ISPs shouldn't be allowed to deny you service for having the wrong opinions!

    Why do you all hate freedom so much? Just go and make your own internet, losers!
    I wouldn't put it on a tee shirt... but yeah. Ill take inconvenience over inconsistency. Heh, then there is that whisper in my year "Let the State own such things, essentials. The roads, the rails, the airways and waves. Only state ownership can guarantee access for all." The voice is strange, its in my head but it isn't mine--I'm not sure quite how it got there.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    I wouldn't put it on a tee shirt... but yeah. Ill take inconvenience over inconsistency. Heh, then there is that whisper in my year "Let the State own such things, essentials. The roads, the rails, the airways and waves. Only state ownership can guarantee access for all." The voice is strange, its in my head but it isn't mine--I'm not sure quite how it got there.
    There are natural monopolies, but they're rare, internet services aren't among them, and anti-trust law isn't the way to handle them anyway.

    In reality, anti-trust law is an anti-competitive device for politically connected enterprises to harass their more efficient rivals.

  14. #12

  15. #13
    Anti-trust law is one of the last things we should get rid of after restoring liberty in many other ways.
    We do NOT have a free market that is flush with competition and entrepreneurs and if we got rid of anti-trust law before fixing the other problems first we would enable a totalitarian Neo-Feudalism from which we might never recover unless we had a redistributive revolution and that is a precedent that should be avoided unless we end up with no other options.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bv3 View Post
    I wouldn't put it on a tee shirt... but yeah. Ill take inconvenience over inconsistency. Heh, then there is that whisper in my year "Let the State own such things, essentials. The roads, the rails, the airways and waves. Only state ownership can guarantee access for all." The voice is strange, its in my head but it isn't mine--I'm not sure quite how it got there.
    Ideological purity is a suicidal position in a fight for survival.

    I fail to see how giving the banksters and mainstream media even more power is going to advance the cause of freedom. Whose voices do you think are going to be silenced? Good luck having any influence without freedom of the press.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamL View Post
    Ideological purity is a suicidal position in a fight for survival.

    I fail to see how giving the banksters and mainstream media even more power is going to advance the cause of freedom. Whose voices do you think are going to be silenced? Good luck having any influence without freedom of the press.
    We can eventually get around to absolute purity IF we do things in the right order and if we are completely successful.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Yeah maybe. In the meantime I'm going to choose to deal with reality. I'll likely be dead before that time ever comes.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamL View Post
    Yeah maybe. In the meantime I'm going to choose to deal with reality. I'll likely be dead before that time ever comes.
    That's the way I see it, I don't expect us to get anywhere near perfection in my lifetime.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We can eventually get around to absolute purity IF we do things in the right order and if we are completely successful.
    Oh yeah? Well, at least you have a prescription:
    "The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production." (Communist Manifesto)


  23. #20
    Poll doesn't have enough options. Why does the OP get monopoly power to set up the poll selections? That ain't right.

    There ought to be a law...

    Well, as long as we're having one conversation in two threads:

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Put a lot of faith in old Teddy, do you [UWDude]?

    Ever hear of Edward H. Harriman? Give or take a van Swearingen or two, he was the last great rail baron. He made a mint manipulating the stock market, bought the Union Pacific, and whipped it into shape. Later he merged it with the Southern Pacific in 1903. The combination never had more than the usual local monopoly here and there, by the way. Harriman contributed to Roosevelt's 1904 campaign and never heard a peep from him. He made no contribution to Roosevelt's 1908 campaign and the UP/SP merger was under attack from 1909.

    As an aside, they should have been left alone. After they were broken up, the UP swallowed the Western Pacific and the SP was swallowed by the smaller, but much healthier Rio Grande. Because of this, when they later merged again (the two systems were designed and built to work together, especially the SP subsidiary called the Central Pacific) the combination did wind up with a significant monopoly. If the UP/SP had been combined all along, it would never have been allowed to swallow either the WP or the Rio Grande, and the national rail network would be more competitive today.

    Meanwhile, AT&T was awarded a major nationwide monopoly about that time. So much for trust busting. That happened because cities and towns were awash in wires. Later improvements in duplex telegraphy eliminated the need for so many wires, as more signals could be carried by fewer wires. But even though the impetus for the monopoly was gone, the monopoly remained for decades. Obviously someone was paying brib--er, I mean campaign contributions.

    Without principle, political decisions are made for political reasons.

    Does YouTube have a monopoly? No. And yet, in some ways they do. YouTube actively censors libertarians, yet this site allows no videos to be embedded but YouTube videos. Why is that? That site, Facebook and Google all reserve the right to censor political speech, because they're all privately owned. But the CIA and other government agencies were in on their creation. So, are they government or are they not? And if they are, what became of the First Amendment? No one seems to be asking that.

    Without principle, political decisions are made for political reasons.

    One bad habit you seem to retain from your days as a prog is a belief that government power is good, and when it isn't, the only solution is putting the "right person" in charge. But the real problem is power without principle. So, where is the principle here?

    If one is going to invoke the ghost of Teddy Roosevelt, one ought to realize he was just another unprincipled politician. If one is going to look for meaning in the history of the railroads, one should have enough facts to see where these actions of the past left us. And if one calls for government intervention, especially on a libertarian site, one really ought to offer a principle or set of principles which can be used to limit that government power and keep it working honestly for the people.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-25-2018 at 09:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Anti-trust law is one of the last things we should get rid of after restoring liberty in many other ways.
    We do NOT have a free market that is flush with competition and entrepreneurs and if we got rid of anti-trust law before fixing the other problems first we would enable a totalitarian Neo-Feudalism from which we might never recover unless we had a redistributive revolution and that is a precedent that should be avoided unless we end up with no other options.
    Boromir promises that he'll destroy the ring after he uses it, guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Boromir promises that he'll destroy the ring after he uses it, guys.
    So did Teddy Roosevelt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Boromir promises that he'll destroy the ring after he uses it, guys.
    Oh, he promised? Then by all means!


  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Anti-trust law is one of the last things we should get rid of after restoring liberty in many other ways.
    We do NOT have a free market that is flush with competition and entrepreneurs and if we got rid of anti-trust law before fixing the other problems first we would enable a totalitarian Neo-Feudalism from which we might never recover unless we had a redistributive revolution and that is a precedent that should be avoided unless we end up with no other options.
    You sound like a Demoncrat (TM). Not because if your sixty-five word run-on stream of consciousness that makes little sense. Rather, it's because trust-busting and wealth redistribution are very DNC, very statist, very progressive "tools".

    So, just out of curiosity, why aren't you attacking UWDude as a " Demoncrat or former Demoncrat" the way you do me? After all, unlike me, he actually, demonstrably fits that description.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-25-2018 at 09:41 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Boromir promises that he'll destroy the ring after he uses it, guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So did Teddy Roosevelt.
    SwordShill reminds me of this self-elected “interim” president:


  30. #26
    I have never read anti trust law . What is it preventing ?
    Do something Danke

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I have never read anti trust law . What is it preventing ?
    In theory, after you buy Atlantic and Marvin Gardens, they take Ventnor Avenue away from you and give it to another player.

    In practice it goes to the person who has both Park Place and Boardwalk. And who made campaign contributions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  32. #28
    You can't have open borders and a welfare state, you must end the welfare state first.
    You can't get rid of anti-trust law with crony capitalism, you must get rid of the crony capitalism first.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Google is a monopoly. I don't think what they do controlling searches and steering people toward liberal clips on Youtube and demonetizing people like Prager U is good. I would rather they shared my values but I can't force other people to agree with me. Yahoo and Bing are awful, so I choose Google as a consumer despite the flaws.

    The people who run Twitter, Google, Patreon, etc are all disgusting and immoral people. But they are winning out in the marketplace fairly. What do people want? The Fairness Doctrine? Donald Trump's arbitrary whims to choose? Consumers should choose. Seems clearcut.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Google is a monopoly. I don't think what they do controlling searches and steering people toward liberal clips on Youtube and demonetizing people like Prager U is good. I would rather they shared my values but I can't force other people to agree with me. Yahoo and Bing are awful, so I choose Google as a consumer despite the flaws.

    The people who run Twitter, Google, Patreon, etc are all disgusting and immoral people. But they are winning out in the marketplace fairly. What do people want? The Fairness Doctrine? Donald Trump's arbitrary whims to choose? Consumers should choose. Seems clearcut.
    They were built by the government and now they are conspiring with the government, we don't have anything close to a free market.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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