$215,000 Raised for Border Wall in One Day via GoFundMe

[UWDude]

The Constitution enslaves human beings..

LoL

[Ender]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Superfluous Man again.

And same for you.

And covered.

[Ender]

LoL

The 14th Amendment did not "free" the slaves- it made everyone a slave.

[PAF]

The 14th Amendment did not "free" the slaves- it made everyone a slave.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Ender again.

I’m out of +reps because it seems there are only a small handful left on this board :-O

[PAF]

yeah



really? Well then, let's just have no government at all! Things will definitely be better then! What could go wrong!?

I’m all for that. The slaves feel proud and happy that their statist “government” takes any amount they want.

The second you ask somebody on the street if they would part with 10-35% of their pay check, even just quarterly, watch how fast they’ll leave skid-marks.

Perhaps they would take another position regarding bombs blowing up people and free welfare to those who are well enough to have 5 babies from 3 different dads but won’t walk 3 blocks to go to work.

[devil21]

Maybe the board has just become more grounded in reality.

In regards to my question earlier. If you invite and allow someone to live on your property, you need to legally have them evicted to get them off it. The fact that someone believe in property rights, NAP, limited government has no bearing on the consequences of their actions. Stop paying property taxes and see what happens to your land. Why would you ever even consider paying property taxes in the first place? If you pay taxes, you have surrendered the rights you speak of.

Legal evictions take place because you don't own your land. Governments do. You handed it over when you signed certain land records and/or mortgage documents. Same reason property taxes exist. They are rent payments to the owner.

[Swordsmyth]

Once you deny any piece of reality no amount of logic or principles can save you.

Reality says that people will attempt to impose their beliefs about government on those around them, that means that I have a right to keep certain kinds of people from living around me and imposing their tyrannical beliefs on me, in order to do that I must cooperate with others in my area who share more of my beliefs than those who must be kept away.

Open borders leads to tyranny and it always will unless libertarianism conquers the world philosophically, libertarianism is far from doing so, the world gets more tyrannical all the time.

The anarchists are asking a man with a severed artery to remove his tourniquet because it is bad for his circulation.

[specsaregood]

The Constitution enslaves human beings..

I think everyone should be welcome here; but perhaps it is you that is in the wrong place.

"I am running for president to restore the rule of law and to stand up for our divinely inspired Constitution." -- Ron Paul

Just saying...

[devil21]

I think everyone should be welcome here; but perhaps it is you that is in the wrong place.

"I am running for president to restore the rule of law and to stand up for our divinely inspired Constitution." -- Ron Paul

Just saying...

You probably should read up on the real history of this country, instead of the spoon-fed version we all received in government school. PAF is correct that the BILL OF RIGHTS is the divinely inspired "Constitution" that RP is referring to. Surely you're not suggesting that RP thinks the 16th amendment, for example, is "divinely inspired"???

[specsaregood]

You probably should read up on the real history of this country, instead of the spoon-fed version we all received in government school. PAF is correct that the BILL OF RIGHTS is the divinely inspired "Constitution" that RP is referring to. Surely you're not suggesting that RP thinks the 16th amendment, for example, is "divinely inspired"???

I'm sure I've read as much as you. I can only work off what he said and RP said. I used exact quotes.

[Ender]

I think everyone should be welcome here; but perhaps it is you that is in the wrong place.

"I am running for president to restore the rule of law and to stand up for our divinely inspired Constitution." -- Ron Paul

Just saying...

@devil21 is correct.

Again, the CONstitution was a Hamiltonian coup- the BoR are about real freedom.

[Ender]

I'm sure I've read as much as you. I can only work off what he said and RP said. I used exact quotes.

Ron Paul- exact quote:

The solution to really addressing the problem of illegal immigration, drug smuggling, and the threat of cross-border terrorism is clear: remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year US war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.

A Better Solution Than Trump’s Border Wall
By Ron Paul
Ron Paul Institute

[Swordsmyth]

Ron Paul- exact quote:


A Better Solution Than Trump’s Border Wall
By Ron Paul
Ron Paul Institute

Well, I start off with saying that it`s a big problem. I don`t like to get involved with the Federal Government very much, but I do think it is a federal responsibility to protect our borders....And that`s why I don`t think our border guards should be sent to Iraq, like we`ve done. I think we need more border guards. But to have the money and the personnel, we have to bring our troops home from Iraq. Ron Paul


More at: http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-pa...al-sovereignty

Totally free immigration! I`ve never taken that position...Well, you work on both. The most important is the welfare state, but you can still beef up your borders and get rid of some incentives for illegals....Ron Paul


More at: http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-pa...al-sovereignty

[PAF]

Ron Paul, Dec 19, 2018: “I was thinking the other day, how could I ever support any money for the wall, I don’t like the wall.”

[Swordsmyth]

Ron Paul, Dec 19, 2018: “I was thinking the other day, how could I ever support any money for the wall, I don’t like the wall.”

That's fine, I am happy to control the border other ways and so is Ron.

You want to erase the border and let us turn into Venezuela.

[PAF]

That's fine, I am happy to control the border other ways and so is Ron.

You want to erase the border and let us turn into Venezuela.

Perhaps you missed the conversation earlier today. I wrote:

Raising money, voluntarily, to expand corrupt government overreach, “give” public land to the BLM agency, while forcing Eminent Domain on private property and businesses owners. Voluntarily, you state. SMGDH

[Swordsmyth]

Perhaps you missed the conversation earlier today. I wrote:

No, I didn't miss that.
What does it have to do with controlling immigration without a wall or your insistence on erasing the border?

[specsaregood]

Ron Paul- exact quote:


A Better Solution Than Trump’s Border Wall
By Ron Paul
Ron Paul Institute

I have no problem with those solutions and in fact support them along with a wall. Which one is more likely to actually occur? A wall, in my opinion.

[Superfluous Man]

That's fine, I am happy to control the border other ways and so is Ron.

The ways Ron is fine with include reducing government power, such as cutting entitlement spending (which on its own is really not strictly about border control anyway, and may or may not have much effect on immigration, legal or illegal). But he's against all ways that involve more government power, and he's against pretty much everything the government now does to do what you euphemistically call controlling the border. He's against a wall. He's against requiring employers to participate in immigration law enforcement. He's against requiring people to have passports to be able to enter the country. He's against deporting illegal immigrants in general. Your position and his are quite different.

[Superfluous Man]

I have no problem with those solutions and in fact support them along with a wall. Which one is more likely to actually occur? A wall, in my opinion.

You support a wall?

Since when?

[Swordsmyth]

The ways Ron is fine with include reducing government power, such as cutting entitlement spending (which on its own is really not strictly about border control anyway, and may or may not have much effect on immigration, legal or illegal). But he's against all ways that involve more government power, and he's against pretty much everything the government now does to do what you euphemistically call controlling the border. He's against a wall. He's against requiring employers to participate in immigration law enforcement. He's against requiring people to have passports to be able to enter the country. He's against deporting illegal immigrants in general. Your position and his are quite different.

Well, I start off with saying that it`s a big problem. I don`t like to get involved with the Federal Government very much, but I do think it is a federal responsibility to protect our borders....And that`s why I don`t think our border guards should be sent to Iraq, like we`ve done. I think we need more border guards. But to have the money and the personnel, we have to bring our troops home from Iraq. Ron Paul


More at: http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-pa...al-sovereignty

Totally free immigration! I`ve never taken that position...Well, you work on both. The most important is the welfare state, but you can still beef up your borders and get rid of some incentives for illegals....Ron Paul


More at: http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-pa...al-sovereignty

[Superfluous Man]

Well, I start off with saying that it`s a big problem. I don`t like to get involved with the Federal Government very much, but I do think it is a federal responsibility to protect our borders....And that`s why I don`t think our border guards should be sent to Iraq, like we`ve done. I think we need more border guards. But to have the money and the personnel, we have to bring our troops home from Iraq. Ron Paul


More at: http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-pa...al-sovereignty

Totally free immigration! I`ve never taken that position...Well, you work on both. The most important is the welfare state, but you can still beef up your borders and get rid of some incentives for illegals....Ron Paul


More at: http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-pa...al-sovereignty

But what does he want those border guards to do? And what does beefing up our borders mean in practice in his proposals?

It's not about preventing peaceful people from entering and leaving. He doesn't even support requiring people to show a passport to cross our borders into the country.

This is why you need to get into specifics and vague platitudes about "border security" and "sovereignty" don't mean anything at all until you do.

When it comes down to the specifics, RP may not call his position one of totally free immigration, but in effect it is.

[dannno]

You support a wall?

Since when?

I guess since he identified tens of millions of new Democratic voters in the US a bigger threat to his liberty than a wall on the Mexican border?

Everybody here would prefer to see the dissolution of the welfare state over a border wall... that's not the question, because the dissolution of the welfare state is not currently in the cards. What is in the cards is tens of millions of new Democrat voters who want bigger government and socialism vs. protect the border (easier with a wall).

Ron Paul makes the argument that the border wall infringes on our freedom.. of course it does, and so there are better options to take care of the problem, they just are not at all realistic in the current political climate.

So we have to make a choice between two worse options.

[Swordsmyth]

But what does he want those border guards to do? And what does beefing up our borders mean in practice in his proposals?

It's not about preventing peaceful people from entering and leaving. He doesn't even support requiring people to show a passport to cross our borders into the country.

This is why you need to get into specifics and vague platitudes about "border security" and "sovereignty" don't mean anything at all until you do.

When it comes down to the specifics, RP may not call his position one of totally free immigration, but in effect it is.

Can you back up what you claim Ron supports?

If you can (and I doubt it) then he is wrong, the whole world is condemned to the lowest common denominator of tyranny if those who believe in liberty can't keep the tyrants from following them around and imposing tyranny on them wherever they go.

[PAF]

I guess since he identified tens of millions of new Democratic voters in the US a bigger threat to his liberty than a wall on the Mexican border?

Everybody here would prefer to see the dissolution of the welfare state over a border wall... that's not the question, because the dissolution of the welfare state is not currently in the cards. What is in the cards is tens of millions of new Democrat voters who want bigger government and socialism vs. protect the border (easier with a wall).

The problem in a nutshell is that many are talking up that stupid wall because a government employee boasted about it and not the actual problem, as government is famous for doing. In no way, shape or form would government ever advocate individualism, freedom and liberty, certainly not ending welfare. So the solution becomes more government intervention which always reduces freedom and liberty, to the point of “voluntarily” raising donations to assist government growth and control, trampling even more rights, even among so-called liberty advocates on this very forum.

[specsaregood]

You support a wall?

Since when?

I don't recall ever not supporting a wall. At least since I lived in San Diego in my youth and saw the filth that is Tijuana.

[Superfluous Man]

Can you back up what you claim Ron supports?

If you can (and I doubt it) then he is wrong, the whole world is condemned to the lowest common denominator of tyranny if those who believe in liberty can't keep the tyrants from following them around and imposing tyranny on them wherever they go.

Here. Coming from a website I imagine you generally agree with in its criticisms of RP.
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/n...t-we-didnt-mak

The part about passports is from this quote from Ron Paul's book Liberty Defined:

Another concern I have with the immigration issue is that the strong border protection proponents are as interested in regulating our right to freely exit the country as they are in preventing illegal entry. No longer can we travel even to Canada or Mexico without a U.S. passport. Our government keeps tabs on our every move, which involves a lot more than looking for drug dealers, illegal immigrants, or stopping a potential terrorist.... A tight border policy to keep certain people out is one thing, but tight border control to limit our ability to leave when we please is something else.
-- Source: Liberty Defined: 50 Essential Issues That Affect our Freedom. New York: Grand Central Publishing, 2011. Pages 157-158.

[Swordsmyth]

Here. Coming from a website I imagine you generally agree with in its criticisms of RP.
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/n...t-we-didnt-mak

The part about passports is from this quote from Ron Paul's book Liberty Defined:

So it appears Ron just says whatever his audience wants to hear.

Pardon me if I reject your appeal to authority then but facts, history and logic are on my side.

[Superfluous Man]

So it appears Ron just says whatever his audience wants to hear.

Pardon me if I reject your appeal to authority then but facts, history and logic are on my side.

The question then becomes why you are here.

[devil21]

The problem in a nutshell is that many are talking up that stupid wall because a government employee boasted about it and not the actual problem, as government is famous for doing. In no way, shape or form would government ever advocate individualism, freedom and liberty, certainly not ending welfare. So the solution becomes more government intervention which always reduces freedom and liberty, to the point of “voluntarily” raising donations to assist government growth and control, trampling even more rights, even among so-called liberty advocates on this very forum.

It's what happens when a "Republican" President is in office. Republicans become just like Democrats, with the only difference being which projects to spend more on and which projects to expand government with. It's very much by design (through perception management agents...ahem) but here we are, on Ron Paul Forums, with people clamoring for more federal spending and more government control of property and population.