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Thread: Federal Judge Rules Obamacare Unconstitutional

  1. #1

    Federal Judge Rules Obamacare Unconstitutional

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...re-act-n948306

    A federal judge in Texas struck down the Affordable Care Act on Friday night, ruling that former President Barack Obama's signature domestic legislation has fallen down like a losing game of "Jenga."

    U.S. District Judge Reed O’Connor in Fort Worth sided with the argument put forward by a coalition of Republican-leaning states, led by Texas, that Obamacare could no longer stand now that there's no penalty for Americans who don't buy insurance.

    The U.S. Supreme Court had upheld the law in 2012, by classifying the legislation as a tax. But since Congress removed the individual mandate in 2017, O’Connor ruled, there's no way the ACA can be allowed to stand.

    "The Individual Mandate can no longer be fairly read as an exercise of Congress's Tax Power and is still impermissible under the Interstate Commerce Clause — meaning the Individual Mandate is unconstitutional," O'Connor wrote. "The Individual Mandate is essential to and inseverable from the remainder of the ACA."
    The left is already cheering the opportunity to go to a "Medicare For All!" plan.



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  3. #2
    Hopefully we will be rid of it without a "medicare for all" replacement.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Hopefully we will be rid of it without a "medicare for all" replacement.
    There's no stopping the Democrats. I wish there was a way to prevent them from taking over healthcare, but both sides now talk about having a plan, and neither side is saying "Let the states work it out."

    Barney Frank explained early on that Obamacare was merely a necessary steppingstone to Medicare for all.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Hopefully we will be rid of it without a "medicare for all" replacement.
    Hope in one hand, $#@! in the other.
    "The Patriarch"

  6. #5
    No replacement necessary.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    No replacement necessary.
    Right? IF you have a pre-existing condition, you already have insurance. Just keep it.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Right? IF you have a pre-existing condition, you already have insurance. Just keep it.
    Yeah, what ever did people do before Obamacare?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Yeah, what ever did people do before Obamacare?
    If you ask the liberals, they all died.

    Meanwhile, Sigh.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    If you ask the liberals, they all died.

    Meanwhile, Sigh.
    I am posting from beyond the grave right now.
    "The Patriarch"

  12. #10
    Rand needs to have another talk with Trump ASAP.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    If you ask the liberals, they all died.

    Meanwhile, Sigh.
    Trump doesn't sound very conservative, saying that.

    How about just getting the government out of healthcare?

    I would prefer to keep my health concerns between my physician and myself.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Right? IF you have a pre-existing condition, you already have insurance. Just keep it.
    Most people who lose their job lose their insurance... but you can get another job and get their insurance, and now, thanks to Rand, we may see the association option opening up soon.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Most people who lose their job lose their insurance... but you can get another job and get their insurance, and now, thanks to Rand, we may see the association option opening up soon.
    I would rather see the insurance companies forced out of routine care and back into catastrophic-coverage-only. Make people pay out of pocket and watch prices drop like a stone.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I would rather see the insurance companies forced out of routine care and back into catastrophic-coverage-only. Make people pay out of pocket and watch prices drop like a stone.
    That's what I think too.

    I believe prices would tend to go down when instead of trying to please the insurance companies, physicians would try to please their clientele.
    Last edited by Dr.3D; 12-14-2018 at 10:22 PM.

  17. #15
    Good.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  18. #16
    Friday's decision which will undoubtedly be fought all the way to the Supreme Court, as California has already announced that they will appeal.
    The Texas-led Republicans argued that they've been harmed by an explosion of people on state-supported insurance rolls - claiming that when Congress repealed the tax penalty last year it nullified the US Supreme Court's rationale for deeming the ACA constitutional in 2012.
    The Democratic attorneys general argued that overturning Obamacare would toss millions of people from health insurance rolls by reversing Medicaid expansion - which would end tax credits and allow insurers to start denying coverage for pre-existing conditions.
    DOJ attorneys urged Judge O'Connor to strike down the individual mandate and pre-existing condition mandate, however they asked the judge to spare the rest of the law - including Medicaid expansion, health exchanges, the employer mandate, federal healthcare reimbursement rates for hospitals and premium subsidies.

    On September 13, Maryland Attorney General Brian Frosh tried to save Obamacare, seeking a judgement that the Affordable Care Act is indeed constitutional, in the form of a court order barring the United States from taking any action inconsistent with that conclusion. Frosh sued then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions along with the DOJ and department of Health and Human Services.


    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...al-texas-judge
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    It was always unConstitutional .
    Do something Danke

  21. #18
    Oh, I have no doubt that the appeals court will issue a stay, and then we'll have to wait to see what SCOTUS does.

    But it looks like he was saying that the original SCOTUS decision was that the law wasn't permissible under the Interstate Commerce Clause, but it was permissible under the Congressional Tax Power. Since the tax is gone, the law is no longer Constitutional because it violates the ICC.

    We'll see. I've no faith left in the power of the Constitution to restrain government.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Oh, I have no doubt that the appeals court will issue a stay, and then we'll have to wait to see what SCOTUS does.

    But it looks like he was saying that the original SCOTUS decision was that the law wasn't permissible under the Interstate Commerce Clause, but it was permissible under the Congressional Tax Power. Since the tax is gone, the law is no longer Constitutional because it violates the ICC.

    We'll see. I've no faith left in the power of the Constitution to restrain government.
    The article I linked to says he declared the individual mandate unconstitutional:

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's no stopping the Democrats. I wish there was a way to prevent them from taking over healthcare, but both sides now talk about having a plan, and neither side is saying "Let the states work it out."

    Barney Frank explained early on that Obamacare was merely a necessary steppingstone to Medicare for all.
    ^^^this^^^

    It was nothing but the warm-up to prep the public for single payer Medicare for all system. +rep

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to angelatc again.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  24. #21
    I wonder if the caravan will turn around now.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The article I linked to says he declared the individual mandate unconstitutional:

    So can all the people who paid the fine get their money back?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    i don't want anything special , just give me the same insurance members of congress get .

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    That's what I think too.

    I believe prices would tend to go down when instead of trying to please the insurance companies, physicians would try to please their clientele.
    Nothing--nothing--has ever made medical care prices in the U.S. rise faster than the law that doctors must charge cash customers (who require no paperwork) the same prices as Medicare customers (who require reams of paperwork).

    That law never saved Medicare one penny. It only accomplished one thing--it made price gouging mandatory for the uninsured.

    Of all the laws that were ever enacted strictly to benefit insurance companies, that one--which was on the face of it supposed to protect Medicare from excessive charges--has done the insurance lobby the most good and the rest of America the most harm. And so far as Medicare is concerned, it changed not one single thing.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-15-2018 at 11:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Nothing--nothing--has ever made medical care prices in the U.S. rise faster than the law that doctors must charge cash customers (who require no paperwork) the same prices as Medicare customers (who require reams of paperwork).

    That law never saved Medicare one penny. It only accomplished one thing--it made price gouging mandatory for the uninsured.

    Of all the laws that were ever enacted strictly to benefit insurance companies, that one--which was on the face of it supposed to protect Medicare from excessive charges--has done the insurance lobby the most good and the rest of America the most harm. And so far as Medicare is concerned, it changed not one single thing.
    I had no idea that was a law. Just...wow.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So can all the people who paid the fine get their money back?
    Probably not. They were covered for services while the coverage was there. Services therefore rendered.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Nothing--nothing--has ever made medical care prices in the U.S. rise faster than the law that doctors must charge cash customers (who require no paperwork) the same prices as Medicare customers (who require reams of paperwork).

    That law never saved Medicare one penny. It only accomplished one thing--it made price gouging mandatory for the uninsured.

    Of all the laws that were ever enacted strictly to benefit insurance companies, that one--which was on the face of it supposed to protect Medicare from excessive charges--has done the insurance lobby the most good and the rest of America the most harm. And so far as Medicare is concerned, it changed not one single thing.
    Just curious, what law is that?

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I would rather see the insurance companies forced out of routine care and back into catastrophic-coverage-only. Make people pay out of pocket and watch prices drop like a stone.
    Yes, this.
    "The Patriarch"

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Just curious, what law is that?
    It's old news, and now that all the search engines use Google's priorities, it isn't easy to find. Also, there have been more laws since altering and expanding the rule. This site gives a pretty good idea how it works:

    https://www.homecaremag.com/hcexpert...ue-mix-201101/

    This gives an overview of how physical therapy providers are affected:

    https://drjarodcarter.com/medicare-s...sical-therapy/

    This is short, but enlightening:

    http://www.physicianspractice.com/qa...f-pay-patients

    And this is, as Time spins it, one 'refreshingly subversive' free market result of it:

    http://time.com/4649914/why-the-doctor-takes-only-cash/

    I personally know a lady who went to work for that Oklahoma City hospital, and she is an outstanding physician. What that says about the rest of the staff I don't know.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-15-2018 at 12:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  34. #30
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
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    Good luck with Medicare for all, given that S.S. and medicare will default relatively soon. Please do it.

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