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Thread: Trump: The Wall Is Mostly Built- Military Can Finish The Rest

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That is silly. I already said that most are not even sneaking across the border. The point was that spending another $25 billion to build walls where people are not trying to cross the border will not reduce immigration. It was also to show that walls can be defeated. No bang for our taxpayer buck.

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...otally-useless
    Ron Paul on Trump's Border Wall: Totally Useless

    Former Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) says President Trump's plan to build a wall along the country's Southern border a "totally useless" idea with low support in border states.

    A new poll found that 61% of Texas citizens do not approve of building a wall along the border with Mexico to keep illegal immigrants out. "I’m glad that the poll shows that people in Texas don’t think much of this wall,” Paul told the FOX Business Network’s Maria Bartiromo.

    "I’ve always argued that the walls are going to hinder the American people as much as anybody," Paul said. "If somebody has honestly earned money and they want to walk across the border, they become criminals, you know, they can’t do it because they have all these regulations.”
    And there it is, the truth reveals itself. Ron also says in that article that the wall is going to hinder the American people as much as anybody else(read illegal immigrants). So not even Ron Paul believes that the wall be useless. You know why? because the wall is not useless, if completed all the way through would drastically reduce the number of illegals crossing the southern border.

    You continue to lose your credibility by arguing this case.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    And there it is, the truth reveals itself. Ron also says in that article that the wall is going to hinder the American people as much as anybody else(read illegal immigrants). So not even Ron Paul believes that the wall be useless. You know why? because the wall is not useless, if completed all the way through would drastically reduce the number of illegals crossing the southern border.

    You continue to lose your credibility by arguing this case.
    https://mises.org/wire/ron-paul-sums...ws-immigration

    The idea of building walls around the country, I think it’s a joke. I could never take a position that we need more barbed wire to solve this problem.
    Actually Ron has been more specific on the idea of a wall. http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...forum-20120201

    Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-12-2018 at 05:00 PM.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Well, I guess Ron would be happy to hear this. This being that nobody is talking about building a barbed wired fence. The fences are usually built with steel bars with very narrow slits between them. They are not built with cinder blocks, woods or barbed wires. Ron was right in the first article you posted.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Well, I guess Ron would be happy to hear this. This being that nobody is talking about building a barbed wired fence. The fences are usually built with steel bars with very narrow slits between them. They are not built with cinder blocks, woods or barbed wires. Ron was right in the first article you posted.
    You mean where he said this?

    President Trump's plan to build a wall along the country's Southern border a "totally useless" idea

  7. #35
    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...s-border-wall/

    A Better Solution Than Trump’s Border Wall

    RON PAUL

    Just one week in office, President Trump is already following through on his pledge to address illegal immigration. His January 25th executive order called for the construction of a wall along the entire length of the US-Mexico border. While he is right to focus on the issue, there are several reasons why his proposed solution will unfortunately not lead us anywhere closer to solving the problem.

    First, the wall will not work. Texas already started building a border fence about ten years ago. It divided people from their own property across the border, it deprived people of their land through the use of eminent domain, and in the end the problem of drug and human smuggling was not solved.

    Second, the wall will be expensive. The wall is estimated to cost between 12 and 15 billion dollars. You can bet it will be more than that. President Trump has claimed that if the Mexican government doesn’t pay for it, he will impose a 20 percent duty on products imported from Mexico. Who will pay this tax? Ultimately, the American consumer, as the additional costs will be passed on. This will of course hurt the poorest Americans the most.

    Third, building a wall ignores the real causes of illegal border crossings into the United States. Though President Trump is right to prioritize the problem of border security, he misses the point on how it can be done effectively and at an actual financial benefit to the country rather than a huge economic drain.

    The solution to really addressing the problem of illegal immigration, drug smuggling, and the threat of cross-border terrorism is clear: remove the welfare magnet that attracts so many to cross the border illegally, stop the 25 year US war in the Middle East, and end the drug war that incentivizes smugglers to cross the border.
    I believe it is important for the United States to have secure borders, but unfortunately President Trump’s plan to build a wall will end up costing a fortune while ignoring the real problem of why people cross the borders illegally.
    More at link.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-12-2018 at 05:16 PM.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Ron was right in the first article you posted.
    I agree. That so many people here now have abandoned RP's views and instead accept all sorts of big-government means of trying to curb illegal immigration, like building border walls and other ridiculous ideas is really frustrating.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I think Ron is talking about liberty when he is talking about the wall. When he says the wall is useless he clearly not referring about its utility in preventing human movement. And if he actually thinks building a wall is useless in preventing the movement of people, then he is wrong. Sorry zippy but this is just common sense,

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    But Mexicans tho
    No doubt , is that where all those crappy Taco Bells came from ?
    Do something Danke

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I agree. That so many people here now have abandoned RP's views and instead accept all sorts of big-government means of trying to curb illegal immigration, like building border walls and other ridiculous ideas is really frustrating.
    I did not say that I supported building a wall, if it was up to me ending welfare programs which many illegals find ways of getting regardless of what zippy wants you to believe would be my #1 option in reducing illegals. I think they would still show up to the country but the ones showing up are most likely going to be more of the type who are willing and ready to work their butts off.

    I am just trying to point out that walls do work, they have been historically used by public and private institutions to stop people movement.
    Last edited by juleswin; 12-12-2018 at 06:08 PM.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I did not say that supported building a wall, if it was up to me ending welfare programs which many illegals find ways of getting regardless of what zippy wants you to believe would be my #1 option in reducing illegals. I think they would still show up to the country but the ones showing up are most likely going to be more of the type who are willing and ready to work their butts off.

    I am just trying to point out that walls do work, they have been historically used by public and private institutions to stop people movement.

    Article from the conservative Breitbart: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...orn-americans/

    Foreign-Born More Likely To Have Job Than Native-Born Americans

    Foreign-born people in the U.S. were more likely to have a job last year than native-born Americans, based on new data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

    In 2014, the unemployment rate for foreign-born people was 5.6 percent, compared to 6.3 percent for native-born Americans. Both groups experienced declines in unemployment from the year prior when foreign-born unemployment was 6.9 percent and native-born was 7.5 percent.
    also from Breitbart: https://www.breitbart.com/border/201...s-us-born-men/

    Rate of Illegal Immigrant Males in Workforce 12 Percent Higher Than US-Born Males

    WASHINGTON, DC — An illegal immigrant male residing in the United States is more likely to be gainfully employed than a male who is a legal immigrant or U.S.-born citizen, a senior demographer at the Pew Research Center think tank told lawmakers.

    In 2012, the most recent year for which data is available, an estimated 91 percent of illegal immigrant males were in the workforce. This compares to 84 percent of legal immigrant men and 79 percent of U.S.-born males, Pew Research Center demographer Jeffrey Passel wrote in testimony prepared for a March 26 hearing held by the Senate Homeland Security & Government Affairs Committee.


    Put in a different way, legal and illegal immigrant males had a better chance to be in the workforce than U.S.-born men in 2012.
    “While there have been some modest changes in labor force participation rates over the past 20 years, the participation of unauthorized immigrant men and women, relative to the U.S.-born population and legal immigrants, has remained essentially unchanged since 2005,” he added.
    more at links
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-12-2018 at 06:13 PM.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.
    "Bring our troops home and put them on the border." - Someone that looked and sounded a lot like Ron Paul

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Anecdotal evidence inc but I know off an illegal immigrant who is living off welfare benefits she collected due to her American born kids. You stop many of that type of problems by ending the welfare state now.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    And they get welfare anyway.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Anecdotal evidence inc but I know off an illegal immigrant who is living off welfare benefits she collected due to her American born kids. You stop many of that type of problems by ending the welfare state now.
    Getting rich off that $1.40 a meal welfare benefits the kids (and not the parents if they are not legal) are eligible for. Maybe that is why 90% of men are in the workforce.

    SNAP benefits average only about $1.40 per person per meal. In fiscal year 2017, the average SNAP household received about $254 a month, while the average recipient received about $126 a month — about $1.40 per meal.


    https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-a...d-on-the-table
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-12-2018 at 06:26 PM.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Getting rich off that $1.40 a meal welfare benefits the kids (and not the parents if they are not legal) are eligible for. Maybe that is why 90% of men are in the workforce.





    https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-a...d-on-the-table
    They get other kinds of welfare through fraud.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #46
    Noting that the following is about legal immigrants who are eligible for benefits after they are in the country for at least five years and also immigrants who have become citizens.

    https://www.cato.org/publications/co...-welfare-state

    Don’t Blame Immigrants for Bloated Welfare State

    The Trump administration is in the process of writing new regulations to guarantee that certain immigrants won’t consume too many welfare or entitlement benefits. The welfare state is certainly a problem, but it’s a home-grown one, not an imported one. Welfare’s benefits are too large and too many people receive them. But the Trump administration should not blame this problem on immigrants.

    In fact, immigrants use fewer welfare and entitlement benefits in than native-born Americans.

    These were the results of a new study we produced for the Cato Institute. We examined data from 2016 on programs for the poor, such as Medicaid and food stamps, and also the entitlement programs of Social Security and Medicare. The latter two are the largest portion of the welfare state and twice as large as all welfare programs for the poor combined. We found that immigrants use 39 percent fewer welfare and entitlements benefits per person than native-born Americans. Immigrants are less likely to use the individual programs in most cases and, when they do, the benefits they receive tend to be smaller.

    Social Security retirement benefits provide a good example. Based on the data, adult immigrants are 47 percent less likely to receive Social Security benefits than native-born American adults. Furthermore, the average amount they receive in benefits is about $1,427 below that of natives in 2016. The net effect is that immigrants individually consumed 48 percent fewer Social Security retirement benefits than natives.

    Supplemental Security Income provides another example. Lower immigrant use rates and benefits mean that the average adult immigrant consumes about 22 percent less in SSI benefits than the average native-born American adult.

    Welfare and entitlement programs are generally intended to aid the poor and support the elderly, but only some Americans and immigrants fall into those categories. In another section of my study, we compare poor and elderly immigrants who meet the poverty and age requirements for those programs with native-born Americans who are also eligible. In this section, immigrants consume 27 percent fewer benefits than native-born Americans.

    One reason why immigrants use fewer benefits is because they are often not eligible for them. Legal immigrants cannot get welfare for their first five years of residency, with few exceptions, mostly at the state level. Illegal immigrants are not eligible for welfare except for rare circumstances like emergency Medicaid.

    Immigrants are drawn to America’s labor markets, not to welfare benefits. The number of illegal immigrants apprehended on the Southwest border, a good proxy measurement for the number who want to come here, is down by 82 percent in 2017 compared to 2000. During that time, Congress has increased the number of welfare programs available for new immigrants.

    If they were coming for welfare, there would be more illegal immigrants entering the country than ever. But there aren’t. Murder, the chaotic drug war in Central America, and a recovering economy here, combined with a faltering one there, is the main driver of asylum seekers and some illegal immigrants coming from that part of the world.

    The fact that immigrants are in fact less likely to receive welfare benefits should dampen the fears of conservatives and libertarians who would support more legal immigration if it weren’t for welfare and entitlement programs.

    Still, Congress needs to address the high cost of welfare and entitlement programs. The best option would be to severely cut the size and accessibility to the welfare and entitlement state for everybody here — immigrants and natives. The benefits are unaffordable and push millions of people out of the labor market.
    More at link.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Noting that the following is about legal immigrants who are eligible for benefits after they are in the country for at least five years and also immigrants who have become citizens.

    https://www.cato.org/publications/co...-welfare-state



    More at link.
    Corpratist American Traitors Organization propagand.

    63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs Compared to 35% of native households

    The illegals that use stolen identities are counted among the native households as well.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Corpratist American Traitors Organization propagand.

    63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs Compared to 35% of native households

    The illegals that use stolen identities are counted among the native households as well.
    Noting that the figure includes both legal and illegal residents. "non- citizens".

    Non-citizens also include long-term temporary visitors (e.g. guestworkers and foreign students) and permanent residents who have not naturalized (green card holders).
    It also notes:

    The immigrant might not always be receiving the benefit, as with households in which a U.S.-born child qualifies for a benefit, while their undocumented or newly arrived immigrant parent does not.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-12-2018 at 06:58 PM.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What programs are they actually using? Digging into the data shows that it is the $126 a month food stamps for qualifying children.
    And?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    Troll fight!!

    “Let’s take my path to tyranny!” “No! Your way sucks! We need to take my path to tyranny!!”
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    No doubt , is that where all those crappy Taco Bells came from ?
    Most Mexican food is pretty awful but Doritos Locos tacos are pretty good .
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Most Mexican food is pretty awful but Doritos Locos tacos are pretty good .
    Taco Cabana for the win. Wish we had those up here.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


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  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Troll fight!!

    “Let’s take my path to tyranny!” “No! Your way sucks! We need to take my path to tyranny!!”
    "The Patriarch"

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Troll fight!!

    “Let’s take my path to tyranny!” “No! Your way sucks! We need to take my path to tyranny!!”

    ROTFLMAO!!! Epic!

    "you must spread some Reputation around..."
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  29. #55
    My money is on Zippy. He's got more flair with his charts.
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  30. #56
    NAFTA will pay for the wall.




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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I am not saying that a wall is 100% full proof, what I am saying is that a wall would make it significantly harder for immigrants to cross the border when compared to no wall at all.

    the drug war makes it significantly harder to sell contraband in the open

    has this reduced the amount of drugs on the street?
    or simply enriched those willing to skirt the law?

    the majority of drugs enter our borders through ports of entry hidden in containers.

    the majority of illegalized immigrants came here legally and overstayed their visa
    another sizeable share were smuggled in at ports of entry like drugs


    how does a wall change that?

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  33. #58
    http://fortune.com/2018/12/12/trump-border-wall-poll/

    69% of Americans Don’t Think Trump's Border Wall Is a Priority, Poll Says

    While talks of a wall between the U.S. and Mexico border have led to televised shouting matches between national leaders, the rest of America is less divided. More than two-thirds of Americans don’t think the wall should be a priority, according to a new poll by NPR, PBS News Hour and Marist.

    Only 28% of those polled answered that the border wall should be an immediate priority, while 19% replied it shouldn’t be an immediate priority, and 50% said it shouldn’t be a priority at all.

    Of those polled, a vast majority of Democrats—91%—said they didn’t think the wall was an immediate priority or said it was not a priority at all, while 35% of Republicans held that view. Sixty-three percent of Republicans thought the wall was of immediate concern compared to 7% of Democrats.

    During a meeting with congressional leaders Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer on Tuesday, President Donald Trump proclaimed that he was willing and would be “proud” to let the government shut down on Dec. 21 if Congress doesn’t include funding for a wall in a proposed deal. The plan Pelosi and Schumer presented to the president didn’t include the $5 billion Trump has requested. Schumer left the meeting saying there were many confusing and contradictory statements by the president.

    It isn’t the first time Trump has threatened to shut down the government over border security.

    Building a wall along the country’s southern border has been a mainstay of Trump’s campaign promises, however, a majority of Americans (57%) think Trump should compromise to avoid gridlock, poll findings revealed. Only 21% agree with Trump’s current tactic of not compromising in favor of building the wall.

    Results by party lines show that this issue is more divided, with 71% of Democrats believing Trump should compromise and 65% standing by his decision to not budge on the issue.
    Of course if Mexico is going to pay for it, Congress should not need to allocate any US tax dollars for the project.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I think Ron is talking about liberty when he is talking about the wall. When he says the wall is useless he clearly not referring about its utility in preventing human movement. And if he actually thinks building a wall is useless in preventing the movement of people, then he is wrong. Sorry zippy but this is just common sense,
    That's the problem. Preventing human movement isn't a utility. It's a harm. It's a net negative and worse than useless.

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