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Thread: Trump: The Wall Is Mostly Built- Military Can Finish The Rest

  1. #1

    Trump: The Wall Is Mostly Built- Military Can Finish The Rest

    Does this mean he no longer needs his $25 billion for the urgent project?

    From Twitter:





    https://www.npr.org/2018/12/11/67542...ations-are-low

    In Fight With 'Chuck And Nancy,' Trump Says He'd Be 'Proud' To Shut Down Government

    In a testy Oval Office exchange with the two top congressional Democrats, Rep. Nancy Pelosi and Sen. Chuck Schumer, President Trump made clear he would be "proud" to shut down the government in less than two weeks if he doesn't get funding for his border wall.

    "I'll be the one to shut it down. I will take the mantle. And I will shut it down for border security," Trump told House and Senate Democratic leaders as Vice President Pence sat by stoically.

    The statement from Trump came in an extraordinary show before the cameras and the press, with minutes of tense back-and-forth with both Pelosi, the likely incoming House speaker, and Schumer, the Senate minority leader.

    Democratic leaders have made it clear they don't intend to give the president a victory on funding for his signature border wall, and afterwards released a statement reiterating that, "We gave the president two options that would keep the government open. It's his choice to accept one of those options or shut the government down."

    Speaking after the meeting, both Schumer and Pelosi thought they had emerged with the upper hand after seemingly baiting Trump into taking the blame if there's a partial shutdown just days before Christmas.

    "This Trump shutdown, this temper tantrum he seems to want to throw, will not get him his wall," the Senate minority leader told reporters outside the White House.

    Throughout the meeting, Trump kept insisting that much of the wall has already been built (numerous fact checkers earlier this year determined it hasn't, which Schumer pointed out) and he's also said that the military can build the rest. During the 2016 campaign, Trump kept claiming that Mexico would pay to build the wall, but he has since dropped that talking point.
    A little more than a year ago, Trump had a couple of meetings with Schumer and Pelosi. He said he'd worked out a deal on immigration with "Chuck and Nancy," as he called them.

    "I think something can happen," Trump told reporters. "We'll see what happens. But something will happen."

    Nothing happened. The deal blew up without even an agreement on what the deal was.
    If Trump does decide not to sign a bill which does not give him $5 billion (it used to be $25 billion he wanted), the only parts of government which would not be funded would be the Department of Homeland Security (responsible for that border he worries about) and the Justice Department (which can punish violators of that border) and the Department of State. Not the entire government- the rest has already been funded for the next year (October which is the end of the fiscal year). The funding bill will require support from at least ten Democrats in the Senate to pass plus a portion of House Democrats as well.

    About 20 miles of the 2000 mile border was replaced (funding approved while Obama was president) but despite Trump claims, no new sections have been built. Unless you count the "prototypes" built in San Diego which were for demonstration only and not part of any actual wall.

    Trump would probably be willing to accept anything so he can claim victory and declare his campaign promise fulfilled.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-11-2018 at 02:35 PM.



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  3. #2
    Welp, I guess he's going to sign that budget after all...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  4. #3
    And the invasion continues non stop.

    Not that either of you guys care, you're in favor of it.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    And the invasion continues non stop.

    Not that either of you guys care, you're in favor of it.
    Quite the conundrum, isn’t it.

    Sacrifice liberty for security... deserve neither.

    A. Build a wall restricting human beings, leading to other police state tactics, at tremendous cost in dollars and freedom.

    B. Let them in, to vote for the very same welfare your own government refuses to eliminate.

    Either way it costs financially. Because government never ends welfare and steps out of the way to allow free markets to naturally fix the problems. They only compound problems ensuring their own jobs.

    You support the very same increasing dependent state that you claim to oppose. By counting on government to “solve problems”, not by reducing government, but by increasing it.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Quite the conundrum, isn’t it.

    Sacrifice liberty for security... deserve neither.

    A. Build a wall restricting human beings, leading to other police state tactics, at tremendous cost in dollars and freedom.

    B. Let them in, to vote for the very same welfare your own government refuses to eliminate.

    Either way it costs financially. Because government never ends welfare and steps out of the way to allow free markets to naturally fix the problems. They only compound problems ensuring their own jobs.

    You support the very same increasing dependent state that you claim to oppose. By counting on government to “solve problems”, not by reducing government, but by increasing it.
    And you support it by supporting the invasion that it has caused and enabled in order to take total control.

    Some government is necessary in order to secure liberty and border/immigration control is one of the most necessary parts of that.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    And the invasion continues non stop.

    Not that either of you guys care, you're in favor of it.
    What flavor is that Kool aid?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And you support it by supporting the invasion that it has caused and enabled in order to take total control.

    Some government is necessary in order to secure liberty and border/immigration control is one of the most necessary parts of that.
    I found some free jigsaw puzzles to get you started. Good luck!

    https://www.thejigsawpuzzles.com
    Last edited by PAF; 12-11-2018 at 05:57 PM.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  11. #9
    I have questions for the wall people:

    Where have you been the past 40 years begging Uncle Sugar to enforce existing laws to prevent corporations bringing in these folks and paying them pennies on the dollar for labor...state sponsored corporate welfare ignored by all? I watched whole towns be displaced and not a word. Millions are here because the people you vote for want them here.

    Do you not understand that a 100’ tall slave-funded wall will only create a true free market for 101’ tall ladders? Tax slaves are always on the wrong side of these equations, as well as personal liberty.

    I share your frustrations with the perception of being overrun (even though numbers are lower now than years ago when you were silent) but am a bit disappointed in some on here for going right for the red meat that has been used for generations to whip up dangerous nationalism - which is just back door full blown statism.

    No welfare and no jobs. Problem solved. Everything else is a distraction away from the real $#@!ing criminals, which a damned wall just makes more of.

    You don’t have to be a an unreasonable idealistic purist in order to be consistent in what you do and don’t want from this government. A wall is not a beacon for liberty no matter how you want to spin it. The mere presence of one suggests otherwise.

    I don’t have the answers, but I can’t help but think the wall discussion is just a way of gaining conscent to continue building walls around our own minds. These $#@!ers are desperate to hold onto the perception of power. Never forget that. We should be shopping for yellow vests....

  12. #10
    Also See:

    Tunnels, how do they work? 🙂

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    I have questions for the wall people:

    Where have you been the past 40 years begging Uncle Sugar to enforce existing laws to prevent corporations bringing in these folks and paying them pennies on the dollar for labor...state sponsored corporate welfare ignored by all? I watched whole towns be displaced and not a word. Millions are here because the people you vote for want them here.

    Do you not understand that a 100’ tall slave-funded wall will only create a true free market for 101’ tall ladders? Tax slaves are always on the wrong side of these equations, as well as personal liberty.

    I share your frustrations with the perception of being overrun (even though numbers are lower now than years ago when you were silent) but am a bit disappointed in some on here for going right for the red meat that has been used for generations to whip up dangerous nationalism - which is just back door full blown statism.

    No welfare and no jobs. Problem solved. Everything else is a distraction away from the real $#@!ing criminals, which a damned wall just makes more of.

    You don’t have to be a an unreasonable idealistic purist in order to be consistent in what you do and don’t want from this government. A wall is not a beacon for liberty no matter how you want to spin it. The mere presence of one suggests otherwise.

    I don’t have the answers, but I can’t help but think the wall discussion is just a way of gaining conscent to continue building walls around our own minds. These $#@!ers are desperate to hold onto the perception of power. Never forget that. We should be shopping for yellow vests....
    If dogs keep coming onto your property and $#@! everywhere you step, would you build a fence?

    If you own a large spread, would you want the pigs $#@!ting by the main door to your home?

    Some say that private home owners should protect their property and have every right to do so. Who owns the US? Who has a right to protect the USA from trespassers?
    Last edited by Schifference; 12-12-2018 at 06:12 AM.

  14. #12
    The military builds missile silos, bases, and naval yards on our own soil. I see no problem with them building a wall for our national defense.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    If dogs keep coming onto your property and $#@! everywhere you step, would you build a fence?

    If you own a large spread, would you want the pigs $#@!ting by the main door to your home?

    Some say that private home owners should protect their property and have every right to do so. Who owns the US? Who has a right to protect the USA from trespassers?
    The first thing I'd do is stop throwing out treats for the dogs (welfare state), and stop watering the mud holes for the pigs (drug war).

    And the private property argument is ludicrous. Shouldn't private property owners have the right to decide who works for them or who they sell their property to? Should the government tell them they can't hire, rent or sell to certain people??

    Look, PAF had it right with his 2 options:
    1. Grow government to keep them out - leads to less liberty.
    2. Let them in to eventually vote for bigger government - leads to less liberty.

    It's pointless to watch you all debate which is the better option since the results are exactly the same. Funny how the government set it up this way, eh?? It's great for division, fundraising and growth of government, but it will always reduce liberty.

    There is a 3rd option, however. Understand that government created problems will never be solved with government solutions. The only principled stance is to reduce the government created incentives that drive the undesirable illegal immigration. That is the only option that leads to liberty. "Oh," but you say, "that's too hard"... Well, guess what? It's always easier to hang onto liberty than it is to get it back once you've lost it. So instead of advocating for greater losses of liberty that will "be too hard" to get back, how about we do the hard work now of getting back the liberty we've already lost?

    At a minimum, we shouldn't be lending any credence to options 1 or 2!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The first thing I'd do is stop throwing out treats for the dogs (welfare state), and stop watering the mud holes for the pigs (drug war).

    And the private property argument is ludicrous. Shouldn't private property owners have the right to decide who works for them or who they sell their property to? Should the government tell them they can't hire, rent or sell to certain people??

    Look, PAF had it right with his 2 options:
    1. Grow government to keep them out - leads to less liberty.
    2. Let them in to eventually vote for bigger government - leads to less liberty.

    It's pointless to watch you all debate which is the better option since the results are exactly the same. Funny how the government set it up this way, eh?? It's great for division, fundraising and growth of government, but it will always reduce liberty.

    There is a 3rd option, however. Understand that government created problems will never be solved with government solutions. The only principled stance is to reduce the government created incentives that drive the undesirable illegal immigration. That is the only option that leads to liberty. "Oh," but you say, "that's too hard"... Well, guess what? It's always easier to hang onto liberty than it is to get it back once you've lost it. So instead of advocating for greater losses of liberty that will "be too hard" to get back, how about we do the hard work now of getting back the liberty we've already lost?

    At a minimum, we shouldn't be lending any credence to options 1 or 2!
    I couldn't agree more.
    "The Patriarch"

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    Also See:

    Tunnels, how do they work? ��
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    I have questions for the wall people:

    Where have you been the past 40 years begging Uncle Sugar to enforce existing laws to prevent corporations bringing in these folks and paying them pennies on the dollar for labor...state sponsored corporate welfare ignored by all? I watched whole towns be displaced and not a word. Millions are here because the people you vote for want them here.

    Do you not understand that a 100’ tall slave-funded wall will only create a true free market for 101’ tall ladders? Tax slaves are always on the wrong side of these equations, as well as personal liberty.

    I share your frustrations with the perception of being overrun (even though numbers are lower now than years ago when you were silent) but am a bit disappointed in some on here for going right for the red meat that has been used for generations to whip up dangerous nationalism - which is just back door full blown statism.

    No welfare and no jobs. Problem solved. Everything else is a distraction away from the real $#@!ing criminals, which a damned wall just makes more of.

    You don’t have to be a an unreasonable idealistic purist in order to be consistent in what you do and don’t want from this government. A wall is not a beacon for liberty no matter how you want to spin it. The mere presence of one suggests otherwise.

    I don’t have the answers, but I can’t help but think the wall discussion is just a way of gaining conscent to continue building walls around our own minds. These $#@!ers are desperate to hold onto the perception of power. Never forget that. We should be shopping for yellow vests....
    And just because your umbrella doesn't keep your feet dry during the rain doesn't mean you should toss it. Speaking strictly on the efficiency of a border fence, it would make it significantly harder for immigrants to cross the border when its built. Does anyone really think a woman carrying a 4 year old can scale a 100" tall fence? and closing off a tunnel is 1000x more easier and cheaper than securing a 100 mile open border.

    So say what you will about Trump, but his border wall would be a game changer for immigration and it doesn't help your credibility by trying to deny this fact.

  18. #16
    Remember how enthusiastically all the deplorables would yell, "Mexico!!!" at his campaign events every time he asked, "...and who's gonna pay for it?"

    It was like the cheers at big college pep rallies. One would have almost thought that promise was important to them.

    And where are they now demanding that that promise be kept and that no wall be built with American taxpayer money?

    They are being led along like mindless lemmings who actually don't believe in anything at all except what their leader tells them to.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Some say that private home owners should protect their property and have every right to do so. Who owns the US? Who has a right to protect the USA from trespassers?
    It can't be both.

    Either private property owners within this vast tax jurisdiction that you call "the US" own their own property and have every right to decide who gets to be on it, or their property is just a subset of this "US" which is owned by some other entity which gets to decide that and dictate it to them.

  21. #18
    But Mexicans tho
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    It can't be both.

    Either private property owners within this vast tax jurisdiction that you call "the US" own their own property and have every right to decide who gets to be on it, or their property is just a subset of this "US" which is owned by some other entity which gets to decide that and dictate it to them.
    and property owners may lose some of their private property so the government can build its wall on it.

    The wall will be free. You won't have to pay a penny for it. Mexico will. At least he has dropped that facade. Now he has dropped how much money he wants to spend. It was a matter of life and death that we get $25 billion for this wall. Now only $5 billion is enough. The goals are getting smaller. He will accept anything and declare victory and get his picture taken.

    Maybe they should use crowdfunding. People who want a wall can donate whatever they want to to fund it. Perhaps this could be a new model for funding government programs.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-12-2018 at 02:50 PM.

  23. #20
    The Pentagon said Tuesday that there is no current plan for the military to build sections of the border wall, but suggested that the law would allow the Defense Department to fund doing so in some cases.

    “To date, there is no plan to build sections of the wall. However, Congress has provided options under Title 10 U.S. Code that could permit the Department of Defense to fund border barrier projects, such as in support of counter drug operations or national emergencies,” Pentagon spokesman Army Lt. Col. Jamie Davis said.

    The Pentagon statement came after President Trump on Tuesday morning said the military could build remaining sections of a border wall.


    More at: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...rier-military/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    And just because your umbrella doesn't keep your feet dry during the rain doesn't mean you should toss it. Speaking strictly on the efficiency of a border fence, it would make it significantly harder for immigrants to cross the border when its built. Does anyone really think a woman carrying a 4 year old can scale a 100" tall fence? and closing off a tunnel is 1000x more easier and cheaper than securing a 100 mile open border.

    So say what you will about Trump, but his border wall would be a game changer for immigration and it doesn't help your credibility by trying to deny this fact.
    Lol, you're concern trolling about credibility? This place sometimes, I swear. LOLOL
    "The Patriarch"

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Lol, you're concern trolling about credibility? This place sometimes, I swear. LOLOL
    I just think it is ludicrous and/or damaging to one's credibility to be arguing that building a wall can be easily overcome with a ladder or digging a tunnel. If that is what makes one a concern troll then I am guilty as charged, send the forum thought police after me

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I just think it is ludicrous and/or damaging to one's credibility to be arguing that building a wall can be easily overcome with a ladder or digging a tunnel. If that is what makes one a concern troll then I am guilty as charged, send the forum thought police after me
    Half those in the country illegally didn't even sneak across the border. They entered legally and stayed after their visa expired (travel, student, work). Tunnels go under the wall. Trucks actually have driven over it. Boats go around it.








  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Half those in the country illegally didn't even sneak across the border. They entered legally and stayed after their visa expired (travel, student, work). Tunnels go under the wall. Trucks actually have driven over it. Boats go around it.







    All of which add extra cost and difficulty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post

    So say what you will about Trump, but his border wall would be a game changer for immigration and it doesn't help your credibility by trying to deny this fact.

    I don't give a $#@! what anyone rates my "credibility". I want liberty, not Uncle Sugar protecting me from the Bad Guys. Pretty simple really.

    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Half those in the country illegally didn't even sneak across the border. They entered legally and stayed after their visa expired (travel, student, work). Tunnels go under the wall. Trucks actually have driven over it. Boats go around it.







    I am not saying that a wall is 100% full proof, what I am saying is that a wall would make it significantly harder for immigrants to cross the border when compared to no wall at all. Showing me an elaborate and most likely expensive one time use contraption does not disprove my point. And I agree with you that may of the illegal immigrants in the country came in through legal means but that is not what the walls is being built for, so why talk about it here?

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    I don't give a $#@! what anyone rates my "credibility". I want liberty, not Uncle Sugar protecting me from the Bad Guys. Pretty simple really.
    I want liberty too but continuing to make bad and easily debunkable arguments about the efficiency of a border wall doesn't your case. I am not crazy about a wall because I know that it works and just as it can be used to hold people from coming in, it can also be used from preventing people from leaving.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I am not saying that a wall is 100% full proof, what I am saying is that a wall would make it significantly harder for immigrants to cross the border when compared to no wall at all. Showing me an elaborate and most likely expensive one time use contraption does not disprove my point. And I agree with you that may of the illegal immigrants in the country came in through legal means but that is not what the walls is being built for, so why talk about it here?
    We already have walls and barriers at the most used crossing points. Is it worth it to build a wall where people are not crossing? Does it reduce those entering the country if we build a wall where there are no people? Sure you can wall off the entire country (why not the northern border? Why not a wall with China where most immigrants are now coming from?). The migrant caravans are going to established crossing points with walls and barriers.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    We already have walls and barriers at the most used crossing points. Is it worth it to build a wall where people are not crossing? Does it reduce those entering the country if we build a wall where there are no people? Sure you can wall off the entire country (why not the northern border? Why not a wall with China where most immigrants are now coming from?). The migrant caravans are going to established crossing points with walls and barriers.
    Are you tell me that we now have a wall in every single crossing point on the southern border and every body crossing now is scaling the fence, tunneling under or making a tear on the war to cross through it? if yes, then I agree with you, no new wall.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Are you tell me that we now have a wall in every single crossing point on the southern border and every body crossing now is scaling the fence, tunneling under or making a tear on the war to cross through it? if yes, then I agree with you, no new wall.
    That is silly. I already said that most are not even sneaking across the border. The point was that spending another $25 billion to build walls where people are not trying to cross the border will not reduce immigration. It was also to show that walls can be defeated. No bang for our taxpayer buck.

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...otally-useless

    Ron Paul on Trump's Border Wall: Totally Useless

    Former Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) says President Trump's plan to build a wall along the country's Southern border a "totally useless" idea with low support in border states.

    A new poll found that 61% of Texas citizens do not approve of building a wall along the border with Mexico to keep illegal immigrants out. "I’m glad that the poll shows that people in Texas don’t think much of this wall,” Paul told the FOX Business Network’s Maria Bartiromo.

    "I’ve always argued that the walls are going to hinder the American people as much as anybody," Paul said. "If somebody has honestly earned money and they want to walk across the border, they become criminals, you know, they can’t do it because they have all these regulations.”

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