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Thread: Trump-Xi Meet: 100 Christians snatched in overnight raids on underground Chinese church

  1. #1

    Trump-Xi Meet: 100 Christians snatched in overnight raids on underground Chinese church

    Probably has nothing to do with events of past week with historic meeting between Christian base's savior Trump and Chinese President and timing is just coincidence:





    100 Christians snatched in overnight raids on underground Chinese church


    • Worshippers taken from their homes and off the streets in coordinated crackdown across Chengdu in Sichuan province
    • Pastor among those arrested



    PUBLISHED : Monday, 10 December, 2018, 5:15pm
    Mimi Lau

    About 100 worshippers at an unofficial church in southwestern China were snatched from their homes or from the streets in coordinated raids which began on Sunday evening.
    Chinese authorities targeted members of the Early Rain Covenant Church across various districts of Chengdu, the provincial capital of Sichuan, in what appears to be an effort to close down one of the country’s most prominent Protestant house churches.
    Members’ personal accounts and cell group discussions on social media channels were blocked at around 9pm on Sunday while the church’s telephone line was also cut. The homes of the church’s leaders, including pastor Wang Yi, were among those raided.
    Zhang Guoqiang, assistant deacon of the Early Rain Covenant Church, was among two church members who were released on Monday morning after his arrest by Chengdu police in the Sunday night raids.
    He is now being watched around the clock by “security personnel” in his home.

    Zhang said he headed to Wang’s home at around 7pm on Sunday after hearing about the raids but the pastor and his wife Jiang Rong were nowhere to be found.
    “His home was ransacked. It was a mess,” Zhang said.
    “The police said our church is an illegal organisation and we cannot attend any more gatherings from now on.”

    The Early Rain Covenant Church is one of China’s few unofficial house churches – Christian assemblies that operate without state sanction – and this is not the first time Wang and other members of the church have been detained.

    While most of China’s Protestant house churches operate underground to avoid attracting official attention and control, the Early Rain congregation openly practices its faith, posting sermons online and evangelising on the streets.

    China bans one of Beijing’s biggest underground Protestant churches

    Many house churches have been closed this year in China’s harshest religious suppression in decades.
    Bob Fu of China Aid, a US-based Christian non-profit organisation, said the crackdown represented a major escalation of religious persecution in China.
    According to Fu, there were more than 10,000 cases of detention of Christians this year, compared with just over 3,000 cases for the whole of last year. In September, Beijing police closed the Zion Church, one of the largest Protestant churches in China with more than 1,500 regular church-goers.
    In February the Religious Affairs Regulation was amended to give grass-roots officials more power to act against churches and impose tougher penalties for “unauthorised religious gatherings”.

    In Henan and Zhejiang provinces, two of the hardest-hit areas in the religious clampdown, churches have been shut down or even demolished, and their members told to denounce their faith.
    The Early Rain church has about 500 followers but their weekly gatherings spread across 12 meeting points around Chengdu, attracting more than 800 church-goers on a weekly basis, according to the church’s elders. It also has about 100 seminary students and a primary school catering to about 40 children.

    The South China Morning Post has learned that a number of elders are still in hiding while many church members were tracked down by police overnight asking them to sign a letter pledging they would not attend further gatherings.

    “This round of crackdown is unusual as it seems that the authorities want to close the church down for good. Our social media channel accounts such as WeChat were not closed in previous rounds and they have taken a large number of our members into custody this time. The scale was unprecedented,” said Li Yingqiang, one of the church elders.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/poli...aids-overnight



    Related


    China Summons U.S. Envoy Over Arrest of Huawei CFO
    December 9, 2018


    • Tensions ratchet up after Huawei’s Meng arrested in Canada
    • U.S. alleges Chinese telecom giant violated sanctions on Iran

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...or-over-huawei



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  3. #2
    This happens ALL THE TIME in China, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRUMP.

    Are you trying to blow what little credibility you have left?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    This happens ALL THE TIME in China, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRUMP.

    Are you trying to blow what little credibility you have left?
    Stop with the insults to @enhanced_deficit; he provides tons of useful info and also things from his POV.
    If you can't handle that put him on ignore but STFU on insults & name calling.
    There is no spoon.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Probably has nothing to do with events of past week with historic meeting between Christian base's savior Trump and Chinese President and timing is just coincidence:
    You do have a talent for predicting how the shills will spin things...

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    This happens ALL THE TIME in China, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRUMP.

    Are you trying to blow what little credibility you have left?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Make no mistake -- President Trump has not been a strong ally on issues like gun rights, spying, spending, and other important issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  6. #5
    I never see any christians at my local chinese eating house , mostly chinese & Hindus I think , maybe an occasional atheist .
    Do something Danke

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    This happens ALL THE TIME in China, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRUMP.

    Are you trying to blow what little credibility you have left?
    He has TDS. Best just to block him if he makes you crazy
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    He has TDS. Best just to block him if he makes you crazy
    Yeah, because the oligarchy is creating a lot of "privately owned" CIA-created censored websites and spending a lot of money promoting Left Wing TDS and Right Wing TDS to destroy our free speech, prevent us from talking with each other, divide us and conquer us.

    And if they're going to that much expense and trouble, it's only polite to help them do it!

    Swordshyll isn't going to put anyone on ignore. That would get him fired. His little feuds disrupt conversations. Those get him bonuses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Make no mistake -- President Trump has not been a strong ally on issues like gun rights, spying, spending, and other important issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.
    A POX ON BOTH YOUR PARTIES

  9. #8
    Hopefully agnostics don't start getting snatched up.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Hopefully agnostics don't start getting snatched up.
    Yeah, then someone will try to blame Trump for that too.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    There could be some improvement possibly:

    December 11, 2018 7:38 pm
    Donald Trump says he’d step in on Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou’s case if it helped with a trade deal

    By Jeff Mason, Steve Holland and Roberta Rampton Reuters
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4753011/d...-meng-wanzhou/




    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    This happens ALL THE TIME in China, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRUMP.
    “This round of crackdown is unusual as it seems that the authorities want to close the church down for good. Our social media channel accounts such as WeChat were not closed in previous rounds and they have taken a large number of our members into custody this time. The scale was unprecedented,” said Li Yingqiang, one of the church elders.

    To be devil's advocate, it's plausible that this clampdown was bit unusual and headline splashed on frontpage of China's largest international newspaper because Prez Xi wanted to appear tough following arrest of China tech giant's CFO on the day of Xi-Trump meeting?

    Some reports are suggesting that respected anti-Iran neocon Bolton was aware that a top Chinese tech executive was being arrested over Iran sanctions on behalf of US as Trump and Xi sat down for 'historic meeting' but Trump was kept in the dark about arrest. That said, there is no proof that Trump got played by GOP-Adelson wing's upper layers/Iran war hawk Bolton.

    On a side note, if this happens "all the time" as you claimed, why this has not been reported in US media headlines or on this forum? Were you aware and tried to raise awarenwss on by starting a thread on persecution of Christians while US-China started top level negotiations? Are Just Christians being persecuted all the time or other religious minorities jews, muslims, sikhs are also persecuted all the time?
    More omprtantly, if persecution of Christians is happening all the time, are we funding their persecution everytime we buy a product made by that country?

    Do you support or oppose MAGA's priorities in negotiations with Xi? Or have "unsure/don't know" frame of mind?




    Trump: Fighting Christian Persecution Will Be a Priority
    October 5, 2018
    The United States might soon be prioritizing the resettlement of Christian refugees, President Trump said in a statement.
    orribly treated,” Trump said in an interview with Christian Broadcasting Network anchor David Brody. “Do you know if you were a Christian in Syria it was impossible, at least very tough, to get into the United States?”
    http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/...a-priority.php

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    There could be some improvement possibly:

    December 11, 2018 7:38 pm
    Donald Trump says he’d step in on Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou’s case if it helped with a trade deal

    By Jeff Mason, Steve Holland and Roberta Rampton Reuters
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4753011/d...-meng-wanzhou/









    To be devil's advocate, it's plausible that this clampdown was bit unusual and headline splashed on frontpage of China's largest international newspaper because Prez Xi wanted to appear tough following arrest of China tech giant's CFO on the day of Xi-Trump meeting?

    Some reports are suggesting that respected anti-Iran neocon Bolton was aware that a top Chinese tech executive was being arrested over Iran sanctions on behalf of US as Trump and Xi sat down for 'historic meeting' but Trump was kept in the dark about arrest. That said, there is no proof that Trump got played by GOP-Adelson wing's upper layers/Iran war hawk Bolton.

    On a side note, if this happens "all the time" as you claimed, why this has not been reported in US media headlines or on this forum? Were you aware and tried to raise awarenwss on by starting a thread on persecution of Christians while US-China started top level negotiations? Are Just Christians being persecuted all the time or other religious minorities jews, muslims, sikhs are also persecuted all the time?
    More omprtantly, if persecution of Christians is happening all the time, are we funding their persecution everytime we buy a product made by that country?

    Do you support or oppose MAGA's priorities in negotiations with Xi? Or have "unsure/don't know" frame of mind?




    Trump: Fighting Christian Persecution Will Be a Priority
    October 5, 2018
    The United States might soon be prioritizing the resettlement of Christian refugees, President Trump said in a statement.
    orribly treated,” Trump said in an interview with Christian Broadcasting Network anchor David Brody. “Do you know if you were a Christian in Syria it was impossible, at least very tough, to get into the United States?”
    http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/...a-priority.php
    Your attempts to link this to Trump are pathetic.

    The Chinese have been increasing their attacks on Christians for some time:

    Christianity crackdown: Police in China raid SUMMER CAMP

    Started by Swordsmyth, 08-17-2018

    Other religions too:

    China reportedly holding thousands of Muslims in internment camps

    Started by Swordsmyth, 05-18-2018
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    This is one of the biggest social experiments probably in the history of humanity. The current campaign to completely enslave the minds of the Chinese people is completely new to me as a westerner. The stuff about tiananmen square wasn't really talked about when I was little, most Presidents wanted to keep trade going with China to westernize them. This looks like societal suicide to me, most cultures that go this route typically implode from mismanagement of resources followed by revolution. Can modern technology create a surveillance state that can contain the human spirit? Can they put the genie back into the bottle?



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