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Thread: US Spends $834 Billion A Year To Defend Europe

  1. #1

    US Spends $834 Billion A Year To Defend Europe

    If Trump's numbers are correct. That is more than our entire US military budget.



    US GDP is $19.39 trillion. 4.3% of that would be $834 billion a year.



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  3. #2
    So what's the real number?
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    So what's the real number?
    Our entire military budget is about $730 billion a year.

    Some other figures:

    https://www.iiss.org/blogs/military-...osts-and-value

    Direct funding for NATO

    Looking at its direct commitment to Europe, the US contribution to NATO common funding stands at a fairly hefty 22.1%, or about US$685 million. This covers the costs of some operations, training and exercises, joint facilities, NATO headquarters and staff. The US further contributes to common equipment procurement, such as the Alliance Ground Surveillance System and the Strategic Airlift Command. It also provides some unique capabilities, including NATO Ballistic Missile Defence, for which the costs are included in the US Missile Defence Agency budget. In total, US funding for NATO military capabilities amounted to US$6.96bn in 2017 and US$6.87bn in 2018.

    Costs of US military presence in Europe

    Besides direct support to NATO capabilities, the US maintains a significant military presence in Europe, via various mechanisms. As of March 2018, US European Command (EUCOM) had around 70,000 active duty personnel, 2,000 reservists and 16,350 Department of Defense civilian personnel. Including personnel deployed on Operation Atlantic Resolve, with operations and maintenance expenses, annual costs for these forces are estimated at US$20.3bn in 2017 and US$24.4bn in 2018. This covers the costs of operating US bases in Europe.

    The US presence in Europe has also been strengthened since June 2014 by the European Deterrence Initiative (EDI), an evolving response to the Russian annexation of Crimea (and originally called the European Reassurance Initiative). The EDI budget was US$789m in 2016 but rose to US$3.42bn in 2017, US$4.78bn in 2018 and is projected to increase to US$6.53bn in 2019 (see Figure 2).

    US foreign military assistance

    Finally, the US further contributes to European security through military aid to NATO allies, to a total of US$54m in 2017, but declining by more than 50% – to US$24m – in 2018.
    That comes to about $36 billion. That is about five percent of our total military budget or less than two tenths of one percent (0.18%) of our GDP.



    https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...es-pay-below-1
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-08-2018 at 04:23 PM.

  5. #4
    So europe should be paying tribute .
    Do something Danke

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    So what's the real number?
    A lot.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    So europe should be paying tribute .
    Bitches...

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  8. #7
    Time to leave NATO.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That comes to about $36 billion. That is about five percent of our total military budget or less than two tenths of one percent (0.18%) of our GDP.
    $36 billion would buy an awful lot of territorial United States border defense and invasion repelling.

    Wasn't there some crazy old coot from Texas that said something like that?

    Something to the effect of just marching the troops home and putting them to work defending the United States?

    Nah...prolly not...I must be losing my mind.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 12-08-2018 at 06:00 PM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our entire military budget is about $730 billion a year.

    Some other figures:

    https://www.iiss.org/blogs/military-...osts-and-value



    That comes to about $36 billion. That is about five percent of our total military budget or less than two tenths of one percent (0.18%) of our GDP.



    https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...es-pay-below-1
    That's ONLY the DIRECT funding, much of the rest of our military costs are necessitated by our defense of Europe.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    $36 billion would buy an awful lot of territorial United States border defense and invasion repelling.

    Wasn't there some crazy old coot from Texas that said something like that?

    Something to the effect of just marching the troops home and putting them to work defending the United States?

    Nah...prolly not...I must be losing my mind.
    Ron said you could save $1 trillion by bringing home the military from overseas. But we don't spend $1 trillion a year overseas. And bringing them home (just moving them) doesn't save money but costs for the transportation.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron said you could save $1 trillion by bringing home the military from overseas. But we don't spend $1 trillion a year overseas. And bringing them home (just moving them) doesn't save money but costs for the transportation.
    It does save money in the long run and if Ron said $1T then he knows more than you do so I will trust him.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our entire military budget is about $730 billion a year.

    That comes to about $36 billion. That is about five percent of our total military budget or less than two tenths of one percent (0.18%) of our GDP.
    Thank you for serving Trumps purpose and pointing out the many billions we pay in direct and indirect defense of Europe and we are not being compensated. Fairness!
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our entire military budget is about $730 billion a year.




    That comes to about $36 billion. That is about five percent of our total military budget or less than two tenths of one percent (0.18%) of our GDP.

    \
    I don't get to say this very often, but something is wrong with your numbers. I don't know where Trump is getting current his number from, but these charts taken directly from NATO indicate that the US was estimated to be spending dramatically upwards of your numbers in 2017.

    Last edited by angelatc; 12-08-2018 at 08:07 PM.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I don't get to say this very often, but something is wrong with your numbers. I don't know where Trump is getting current his number from, but this chart taken directly from NATO indicates that the US was estimated to be spending dramatically upwards of your numbers in 2017.

    Charts show total military expenditures as a percent of GDP- not how much they are spending in Europe but the entire world including inside the US. The US is not spending their entire military budget in Europe.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-08-2018 at 08:10 PM.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If Trump's numbers are correct. That is more than our entire US military budget.



    US GDP is $19.39 trillion. 4.3% of that would be $834 billion a year.
    Looking at the UN numbers, that estimate doesn't seem out of line.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Charts show total military expenditures as a percent of GDP- not how much they are spending in Europe. The US is not spending their entire military budget in Europe.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Charts show total military expenditures as a percent of GDP- not how much they are spending in Europe. The US is not spending their entire military budget in Europe.
    Then what's the 2% NATO suggestion about? Isn't that how much NATO suggests each country spend on NATO?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Then what's the 2% NATO suggestion about? Isn't that how much NATO suggests each country spend on NATO?
    That is a percent of GDP they spend on their military- not just towards NATO. From your link:

    NATO collects defence expenditure data from Allies on a regular basis and presents
    aggregates and subsets of this information. Each Ally’s Ministry of Defence reports
    current and estimated future defence expenditure according to an agreed definition of
    defence expenditure. The amounts represent payments by a national government actually
    made, or to be made, during the course of the fiscal year to meet the needs of its armed
    forces,
    those of Allies or of the Alliance.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-08-2018 at 08:19 PM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That is a percent of GDP they spend on their military- not just towards NATO.
    But his tweet is accurate. Germany is paying approx 1% while we're paying upwards of 3.5%, and we are not using all that money to defend our borders, that's for sure.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    But his tweet is accurate. Germany is paying approx 1% while we're paying upwards of 3.5%, and we are not using all that money to defend our borders, that's for sure.
    Tweet says we are spending 4.3% of our GDP to defend Europe. That is accurate if you can claim that all of our military spending goes to defending Europe. It doesn't.

    Germany is paying 1% while the U.S. pays 4.3% of a much larger GDP - to protect Europe. Fairness!

  24. #21
    Be nice if we didn't spend any money defending Europe.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Be nice if we didn't spend any money defending Europe.
    /Thread
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Tweet says we are spending 4.3% of our GDP to defend Europe. That is accurate if you can claim that all of our military spending goes to defending Europe. It doesn't.
    I guess I'm not reading it the same way you are.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron said you could save $1 trillion by bringing home the military from overseas. But we don't spend $1 trillion a year overseas. And bringing them home (just moving them) doesn't save money but costs for the transportation.
    So you are saying we would not have saved a trillion dollars in defense spending if we had elected Ron in 2008?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I guess I'm not reading it the same way you are.
    Fair enough.

  30. #26
    I said it before, I'll say it again:

    I miss the days when this "movement" was opposed to military spending abroad, wanted the troops home and the border defended.

  31. #27
    How much does Europe spend to defend the US?

    Or is NATO just a scheme to rob the US taxpayer to subsidize European socialism?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So you ares saying we would not have saved a trillion dollars in defense spending if we had elected Ron in 2008?
    How much would Congress be willing to cut (they write the budgets)? In 2008 we were spending $481 on defense. Can you save $1 trillion there (certainly not in one year)? Total spending was $2.9 trillion. This year we are spending over $4 trillion and $700 billion on defense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_U...federal_budget

    I had problems with his math back then too. Besides Social Security, Medicare/ Medicaid and interest on the debt we were spending about $1.15 trillion. He said he could cut $1 trillion from that budget without cutting any Social Security or Medicaid. That would leave about $150 billion for everything including Defense.

    SPENDING:

    Cuts $1 trillion in spending during the first year of Ron Paul’s presidency, eliminating five cabinet departments (Energy, HUD, Commerce, Interior, and Education), abolishing the Transportation Security Administration and returning responsibility for security to private property owners, abolishing corporate subsidies, stopping foreign aid, ending foreign wars, and returning most other spending to 2006 levels.

    ENTITLEMENTS:

    Honors our promise to our seniors and veterans, while allowing young workers to opt out. Block-grants Medicaid and other welfare programs to allow States the flexibility and ingenuity they need to solve their own unique problems without harming those currently relying on the programs.
    Plan to Restore America- Ron Paul. http://c3244172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/...mericaPlan.pdf

    The budgets (2008) for the five departments he would eliminate:

    Energy: $24.3 billion
    HUD: $35.2 billion
    Commerce: $1.9 billion
    Interior: $10.6 billion
    Education: $56.4 billion

    That's $117 billion. Only about ten percent of what he wanted. Assuming Congress would agree.

    Returning discretionary spending to 2006 levels would actually have INCREASED spending. The 2006 budget called for $2.7 trillion in spending but subtracting off Social Security and Medicare/ Medicaid and interest on the debt leaves $1.3 trillion -more than the 2008 budget of $1.15. The growth of the social welfare programs offset reductions in other spending.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-08-2018 at 08:53 PM.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I said it before, I'll say it again:

    I miss the days when this "movement" was opposed to military spending abroad, wanted the troops home and the border defended.
    WE are, why zippy is allowed to disrupt the movement is another question.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    How much would Congress be willing to cut (they write the budgets)? In 2008 we were spending $481 on defense. Total spending was $2.9 trillion. This year we are spending over $4 trillion and $700 billion on defense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_U...federal_budget
    Good question.

    Moot point.

    The executive can veto any budget that expands.

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