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Thread: Senate heading for historic vote to pull US military aid to Saudi Arabia

  1. #1

    Senate heading for historic vote to pull US military aid to Saudi Arabia

    The Senate could begin debating a measure as early as Monday that would override the Trump administration and force the withdrawal of U.S. support for the Saudi-led war in Yemen.
    The effort is fueled in large part by a strong sense among lawmakers in both parties that the United States needs to rebuke Saudi Arabia over the murder of dissident Jamal Khashoggi.
    The Senate has never considered a measure to withdraw U.S. military forces from an overseas conflict, and the resolution would compel them to take such a vote. Many think the Senate will take it up.

    The vote hasn’t been scheduled yet, but Senate lawmakers anticipate Monday’s agenda will include passage of a motion to proceed to the joint resolution.
    “My guess is it’s got more than 51,” said Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Bob Corker, R-Tenn., referring to a majority vote in the Senate that would be needed to proceed to the measure. “My sense is the motion to proceed will be successful.”
    The tri-partisan measure is sponsored by Sens. Mike Lee, R-Utah, Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and Chris Murphy, D-Conn. and calls for ending U.S. military involvement in the war between a Saudi-led coalition and Iran-backed Houthis in Yemen.
    Sanders, Lee, and Murphy believe the United States should not be aiding the Saudis in a war that has created a humanitarian crisis in Yemen.
    According to lawmakers, 10,000 civilians have been killed in the war and 40,000 have been wounded. The majority of the population is struggling to avoid starvation.
    A large faction of Republican lawmakers is eager to avoid a vote on the War Powers Act because they believe it would set a dangerous precedent that could be applied to any United States ally. At the same time, they are determined to rebuke the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who the CIA determined is responsible for the October murder and dismemberment of Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.
    Corker, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., and other lawmakers are working behind closed doors to come up with an alternative to the War Powers Resolution that would sanction the crown prince, although Corker would not provide the details of that plan.
    Lawmakers will meet Thursday morning to discuss what they hope can serve as a substitute to the Lee-Sanders-Murphy resolution.
    Graham is mulling a variety of alternatives, including one that would stop the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia and suspend U.S. support in Yemen until the crown prince is punished or held accountable for Khashoggi’s death.
    [Lindsey Graham: I feel 'played,' 'used' by Saudi crown prince]
    On Wednesday, Graham and others introduced a resolution that holds the crown prince responsible for Khashoggi's murder and calls for the United States and the international community to hold the Saudis and the crown prince responsible.
    It's not clear now the resolution will impact the Lee-Sanders-Murphy measure.
    Murphy said he won’t support any bill that leaves the U.S. in Yemen.

    More at: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...o-saudi-arabia
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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  3. #2
    The White House wants to stay the course in Yemen even as the Senate is set to push back against US military support to the Saudi-led bombing campaign. But now a bombshell report reveals the Pentagon has been fueling Saudi and UAE jets free of charge due to "errors in accounting where DoD failed to charge" according to US defense officials.


    The huge significance is summarized in the opening lines of The Atlantic report which broke the story over the weekend:
    President Donald Trump, who repeatedly complains that the United States is paying too much for the defense of its allies, has praised Saudi Arabia for ostensibly taking on Iran in the Yemen war. It turns out, however, that U.S. taxpayers have been footing the bill for a major part of the Saudi-led campaign, possibly to the tune of tens of millions of dollars.
    For the entire three-and-a-half years of the program, the Pentagon never had an official servicing agreement in place with the Saudis and further never informed Congress.
    The vital refueling role that the US military has played in the war goes back to March 2015 and is reported to be "enormously expensive". The recipient country, in this case the Saudis, is required by law to pay the costs but the Pentagon now admits "they in fact had not been charged adequately" in an official DoD letter obtained by The Atlantic.
    The Pentagon is now “currently calculating the correct charges” but it's unclear if the missing funds going back years footed by the American taxpayer will ever be obtained especially as the DoD doesn't even know what it's owed.


    Senator Jack Reed, the top Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, told The Atlantic that likely "tens of millions of dollars" worth of fuel was supplied to the Saudi coalition for free. However, this figure (again which the Pentagon says it can't account for) is possibly in the hundreds of millions, considering the following:
    Records provided by the Defense Logistics Agency this March indicated that since the start of fiscal year 2015 (October 2014), more than 7.5 million gallons of aerial refueling had been provided to the UAE, and more than 1 million gallons to the Saudis. Those figures were for all aerial refueling, not necessarily only related to operations in Yemen.
    “It is clear that the Department has not lived up to its obligation to keep Congress appropriately informed or its responsibility to secure timely reimbursement,” Sen. Reed told The Atlantic. “U.S.-provided aerial refueling assistance was provided to the Saudi-led coalition for more than 3.5 years, activities that likely cost tens of millions of dollars. We must ensure that U.S. taxpayers are fully reimbursed for that support.”


    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...jets-free-2015
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Saudis need to fight their own damn wars.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    Saudis need to fight their own damn wars.
    Ideally they'd focus on building their country instead of fighting a war. That's kind of a win-win for everyone I would say. A few people excluded.
    "I am a bird"

  6. #5
    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday urged Senators to block an imminent vote on a historic war powers resolution that would end U.S. support of the Saudi-led strikes in Yemen.
    The Kentucky Republican said a bill sponsored by Sens. Mike Lee, R-Utah, and Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., “is neither precise enough or prudent enough,” to protect the 70-year alliance between the United States and Saudi Arabia.
    The measure, slated to come up Wednesday afternoon, would impose an unprecedented check on the executive branch to use military force abroad.

    McConnell urged lawmakers to instead back a forthcoming resolution drafted by Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Bob Corker, R-Tenn., which would condemn the Saudi government, and specifically Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, for the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul last October.

    “It’s a superior road to the outcome that most senators want,” McConnell said. “So I urge every member to vote against considering the Sanders-Lee resolution today and join me in supporting Chairman Corker’s responsible alternative.”


    Corker told reporters he believes the Sanders-Lee resolution has the backing both to proceed to debate and pass the floor, but has little future beyond the Senate this year.
    Corker is crafting a third measure with Sens. Bob Menendez, D-N.J., and Todd Young, R-Ind., which would call for sanctions against the Saudis. But that measure isn’t likely to make it out of committee this year.
    In the meantime, Corker and McConnell are discouraging lawmakers against the Lee-Sanders bill, arguing the use of the war powers act in this instance would too broadly attack the executive branch’s authority.
    “If the Senate wants to pick a constitutional fight with the executive branch over war powers, I would advise my colleagues to pick a better case,” McConnell said Wednesday. “Their resolution is an inappropriate vehicle.”
    Lee, Sanders, and the mostly Democratic backing for the bill argue the United Sates should not provide any support for the Saudi-led strikes in Yemen, where 10,000 civilians have been killed and 40,000 have been injured.

    More at: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...t-trump-saudis
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    I find it regrettable that any tax dollars are aiding the barbarian kingdom of saud .
    Do something Danke

  8. #7
    It's disgusting that were backing the Saudis up on this war.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I find it regrettable that any tax dollars are aiding the barbarian kingdom of saud .
    Tax dollars aiding Saudi Arabia? those guys pay for their bombs and the US military services they receive. The even told Kerry that they would pay for every cent the US were going to spend if the overthrew Assad for them. The Saudis are no welfare queens like the Israelis and other moochers of US aid, they pay for their own shyte.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Tax dollars aiding Saudi Arabia? those guys pay for their bombs and the US military services they receive. The even told Kerry that they would pay for every cent the US were going to spend if the overthrew Assad for them. The Saudis are no welfare queens like the Israelis and other moochers of US aid, they pay for their own shyte.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The White House wants to stay the course in Yemen even as the Senate is set to push back against US military support to the Saudi-led bombing campaign. But now a bombshell report reveals the Pentagon has been fueling Saudi and UAE jets free of charge due to "errors in accounting where DoD failed to charge" according to US defense officials.


    The huge significance is summarized in the opening lines of The Atlantic report which broke the story over the weekend:
    President Donald Trump, who repeatedly complains that the United States is paying too much for the defense of its allies, has praised Saudi Arabia for ostensibly taking on Iran in the Yemen war. It turns out, however, that U.S. taxpayers have been footing the bill for a major part of the Saudi-led campaign, possibly to the tune of tens of millions of dollars.
    For the entire three-and-a-half years of the program, the Pentagon never had an official servicing agreement in place with the Saudis and further never informed Congress.
    The vital refueling role that the US military has played in the war goes back to March 2015 and is reported to be "enormously expensive". The recipient country, in this case the Saudis, is required by law to pay the costs but the Pentagon now admits "they in fact had not been charged adequately" in an official DoD letter obtained by The Atlantic.
    The Pentagon is now “currently calculating the correct charges” but it's unclear if the missing funds going back years footed by the American taxpayer will ever be obtained especially as the DoD doesn't even know what it's owed.


    Senator Jack Reed, the top Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, told The Atlantic that likely "tens of millions of dollars" worth of fuel was supplied to the Saudi coalition for free. However, this figure (again which the Pentagon says it can't account for) is possibly in the hundreds of millions, considering the following:
    Records provided by the Defense Logistics Agency this March indicated that since the start of fiscal year 2015 (October 2014), more than 7.5 million gallons of aerial refueling had been provided to the UAE, and more than 1 million gallons to the Saudis. Those figures were for all aerial refueling, not necessarily only related to operations in Yemen.
    “It is clear that the Department has not lived up to its obligation to keep Congress appropriately informed or its responsibility to secure timely reimbursement,” Sen. Reed told The Atlantic. “U.S.-provided aerial refueling assistance was provided to the Saudi-led coalition for more than 3.5 years, activities that likely cost tens of millions of dollars. We must ensure that U.S. taxpayers are fully reimbursed for that support.”


    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...jets-free-2015
    ...
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    ...
    error in accounting eh? well, get some IT guys to fix the glitch in the system, bring the accounting guys and back charger those wealthy SOB and problem is fixed. They will not shy away from paying whatever we spend helping them slaughter poor Yemenis.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    error in accounting eh? well, get some IT guys to fix the glitch in the system, bring the accounting guys and back charger those wealthy SOB and problem is fixed. They will not shy away from paying whatever we spend helping them slaughter poor Yemenis.
    I doubt it was really an error and it makes me question what else we haven't been told.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I doubt it was really an error and it makes me question what else we haven't been told.
    I think this war is much of an American war as it is a Saudi war and that is why I believe the attempt by congress will fail. They might withdraw US military participation but the war will continue with other means. CIA, cruise missiles, NATO, ISIS etc one way or another the US corp will see the fight to the bitter end.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday urged Senators to block an imminent vote on a historic war powers resolution that would end U.S. support of the Saudi-led strikes in Yemen.

    [...]

    McConnell urged lawmakers to instead back a forthcoming resolution drafted by Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Bob Corker, R-Tenn., which would condemn the Saudi government, and specifically Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, for the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul last October.

    “It’s a superior road to the outcome that most senators want,” McConnell said. “So I urge every member to vote against considering the Sanders-Lee resolution today and join me in supporting Chairman Corker’s responsible alternative.”
    So according to McConnell, toothless and inconsequential finger-wagging is a "responsible alternative" to ending participation in mass slaughter ...

    I wish I could believe in Hell so that I could believe McConnell would burn there one day.

  16. #14
    This is shaping up to be a stunning rebuke of and major setback for GOP-Adelson/Jarvanka wing of Iran/Syria/Yemen wars neocons (usually advertized as MAGA) that is already in dire shape following Cohen's sentencing and other wheels falling off.

    Jared Kushner advised Saudi prince on how to 'weather' Khashoggi slaying, report says
    William Cummings, USA TODAY Published Dec. 9, 2018
    Senators are considering multiple pieces of legislation to formally rebuke Saudi Arabia for the slaying of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Momentum is building for a resolution that would call the Saudi crown prince "complicit" in the killing. (Dec. 6) AP


  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    So according to McConnell, toothless and inconsequential finger-wagging is a "responsible alternative" to ending participation in mass slaughter ...

    I wish I could believe in Hell so that I could believe McConnell would burn there one day.
    He will.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
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    Great idea until gas is $8 per gallon. This may not be what it seems. And this coming from someone who is not a fan of the Saudis.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Great idea until gas is $8 per gallon. This may not be what it seems. And this coming from someone who is not a fan of the Saudis.
    We have oil. Why not f'k the Saudis and create jobs at the same time?
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

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    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  21. #18
    The US Senate approved a resolution to end U.S. support for the Saudi-led war in Yemen, dealing a stinging rebuke to President Trump amid heightened tensions over the death of U.S.-based Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Senators voted 56-41 on the resolution, which would require the president to withdraw any troops in or “affecting” Yemen within 30 days unless they are fighting al Qaeda; in doing so the Senate defied a veto threat from the White House which has vowed it would block the legislation.

    However, beyond sending a symbolic message, the vote is largely moot as on Wednesday, as part of the Farm Bill passage, the House voted to block members from forcing a war powers vote this year. Still, the Senate vote Thursday underscored the depth of frustration with Saudi Arabia on Capitol Hill, as well as the escalating gap between the White House and Congress on the relationship between the U.S. and the kingdom.
    Senators said passage sends a strong message to the Saudi crown prince because it targets his most important foreign policy priority. And just to make sure the Senate was heard loud and clear, the Senate also passed a measure which said that the Saudi Crown Prince was behind Khashoggi's death.
    “I hope … we send a loud and powerful message by passing this resolution. That we’re going to bring peace to that country and that the United States Congress is going to reassert its constitutional authority to make the body that makes war not the president,” Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), one of the sponsors of the resolution, told reporters.
    “A strong denouncing of a crown prince and holding them responsible for the murder of a journalist. It’s a pretty strong statement for the United States Senate to be making, assuming we can get a vote on it,” Senator Bob Corker told reporters this week.
    It’s a dramatic U-turn from less than nine months ago when the chamber pigeonholed the exact same resolution, refusing to vote it out of committee and onto full Senate. At the time, 10 Democrats joined 45 Republicans in opposing it.
    The resolution's passage comes less than a day after Trump maintained that he would stand by the Saudi government and specifically Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, whom U.S. intelligence officials reportedly believe ordered Khashoggi's killing inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul in early October.
    Trump told Reuters on Tuesday that Riyadh has been “a very good ally” and “at this moment” sticking with Saudi Arabia means standing by the crown prince.
    The Trump administration had led a lobbying effort to try to squash the Senate resolution. In addition to a veto threat, they sent Defense Secretary James Mattis and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to brief senators and privately urge them to oppose the resolution.
    Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) said Wednesday that he couldn’t support the resolution but “I know that Lee-Sanders has the votes.”
    According to The Hill, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) urged opposition to the measure hours ahead of the vote, while acknowledging members have "legitimate concerns" about Yemen and share "grave concerns" about Khashoggi's death. "[But] we also want to preserve the 70-year partnership between the United States and Saudi Arabia and we want to ensure it continues to serve American interests and stabilizes a dangerous and critical region," McConnell said.
    The House is expected to get the same briefing on Thursday.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...port-saudi-war
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Senate votes to take back war powers from executive branch. What must happen next for this to go through? Does House need to pass also? Does Trump need to sign?

    I have heard some people argue that the power lies with the President under A2S2. What would the founders say to this?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    Senate votes to take back war powers from executive branch. What must happen next for this to go through? Does House need to pass also? Does Trump need to sign?

    I have heard some people argue that the power lies with the President under A2S2. What would the founders say to this?
    Just saw house rejected 206-203. I apologize.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    I have heard some people argue that the power lies with the President under A2S2. What would the founders say to this?
    A2S2 only gives the President power over the military, it doesn't give him power to declare war, he can order the military to stop fighting but he can't even end a war on his own because a peace treaty requires the approval of the Senate.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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