Apparently the Lord of the Rings is racist

[RJB]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/38755...-emily-zanotti

Science fiction author Andrew Duncan has a message for J.R.R. Tolkien fans, particularly fans of the famed writer's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy: Tolkien discriminated against orcs and the "Lord of the Rings" books promote racism.

Duncan was discussing "Lord of the Rings" as part of a wider discussion on fantasy literature for WIRED magazine's Geek's Guide to the Galaxy podcast when his assessment of Tolkien's masterpiece took a decidedly "woke" turn.

"It's hard to miss the repeated notion in Tolkien that some races are just worse than others, or that some peoples are just worse than others," Duncan said.

.

[acptulsa]

And dwarphobic too.

[pcosmar]

Well,, in the the Fantasy world of Middle Earth,, different races actually exist.

This is also true in Azeroth.

[pcosmar]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xKJllZu1Osk

and the entire question of Good v Evil goes drifting off in a haze of confusion.

[Anti Globalist]

Racism is like ketchup. You can put it on anything.

[RJB]

I pasted a video that I didn't watch all the way. I then thought I hit preview but I must have hit post. I re-edited and posted an article instead.

[Anti Federalist]

Of course it is...what isn't these days?

[CCTelander]

Racist against Orcs? Seriously? Man, whatever this assclown is smoking is some gooood $#@!.

[Origanalist]

I pasted a video that I didn't watch all the way. I then thought I hit preview but I must have hit post. I re-edited and posted an article instead.

Lol, I started watching that earlier today and didn't make it too far either.

[acptulsa]

Racist against Orcs? Seriously? Man, whatever this assclown is smoking is some gooood $#@!.

If he is, he's committing a crime.

Of course, it's a victimless crime. But so is racism against imaginary orcs.

[PierzStyx]

Well, in the strictest sense, it is. Elves, dwarves, humans, and orcs all have traits that aren't just cultural but racial. They think and act certain ways not because they've been taught to do that but because that is just who they are by birth.

That said, to focus on this issue really misses the point. Through the myriad multi-racial relationships in LoTR -Gimli and Legolas, Aragorn and Arwen, Frodo and Gandalf, Merry and Eowyn, etc.- Tolkien does a lot of work to break down the idea that racial differences truly matter. They don't, and by getting to know each other we discover that for all our seeming differences racial and cultural that we really all are truly the same. Aragorm and Arwen are an interracial couple. Elrond is mixed-race himself. And these are the heroes.

Interestingly enough it is all the ones who don't want to mix races and cultures that are the enemies. Sauron wants to conquer and force everyone to accept his cultural and political superiority. Denethor has turned Gondor into an isolationist kingdom. Under the influence of Wormtounge, Theoden has turned inwards and refuses to aid Gondor or listen to anyone form outside his lands. Saruman has done something similar at his tower. They're all cultural and political isolationist. Economically they're certainly protectionist.

By contrast, our heroes open themselves and their lands up to the world around them. Even teh previously isolated Shire becomes more connected to the world and people around it under Sam's leadership.

[AZJoe]

Well it does kind of cast trolls, orcs and goblins in a bad light - serving the dark lord, going total viking - raiding, killing and pillaging and all that. That's just a part of their culture. Tolkien should be more respecting of that.
And dwarves and elves - LOTR perpetuates the stereotype that dwarves are short, stubborn, grow beards and have a greed for treasure.
LOTR also stereotypes elves as inherently good at bowmanship. Just because their elves doesn't mean they play archery. Some elves might prefer digging tunnels in mountains, and some dwarves might just prefer climbing trees and shooting the longbow.
And hobbits - furry footed harmless little people with big feet, that like to grow vegetables and smoke pipes.

[William Tell]

By contrast, our heroes open themselves and their lands up to the world around them. Even teh previously isolated Shire becomes more connected to the world and people around it under Sam's leadership.

And then there was the part where Saruman took advantage of the Shire's open borders, immigrated transformed their government and turned it into a tyranny.

[Danke]

... going total viking - raiding, killing and pillaging and all that. That's just a part of their culture.

That is a racist stereotype and not even true. I wish people on RPFs would knock that $#@! off.

It is demeaning and hurtful to me and the contributions from my rich and inclusive culture.

Next time I see some disparaging my heritage, I'm reporting it.

[AZJoe]

That is a racist stereotype and not even true. I wish people on RPFs would knock that $#@! off.
It is demeaning and hurtful to me and the contributions from my rich and inclusive culture.
Next time I see some disparaging my heritage, I'm reporting it.

Thanks for pointing that out. I see it now. Honestly, I meant no offense to the orcs and trolls.

[Danke]

Thanks for pointing that out. I see it now. Honestly, I meant no offense to the orcs and trolls.

Reported.

[Occam's Banana]

And then there was the part where Saruman took advantage of the Shire's open borders, immigrated transformed their government and turned it into a tyranny.

Actually, the Dúnedain of the North (i.e., the Rangers) patrolled the Shire's borders - and the areas around Bree and the road to Imladris (Elrond's haven).

It wasn't until they went South to join the War of the Ring that Saruman's henchmen started moving in ...

[acptulsa]

Actually, the Dúnedain of the North (i.e., the Rangers) patrolled the Shire's borders - and the areas around Bree and the road to Imladris (Elrond's haven).

It wasn't until they went South to join the War of the Ring that Saruman's henchmen started moving in ...

I think you put your finger on it. Secure borders aren't racist because they keep brown people out. Secure borders just have to be demonized as racist (or some kind of "-ist") because they sap resources from the task of bombing brown people off their oil and poppies.

[juleswin]

Actually, the Dúnedain of the North (i.e., the Rangers) patrolled the Shire's borders - and the areas around Bree and the road to Imladris (Elrond's haven).

It wasn't until they went South to join the War of the Ring that Saruman's henchmen started moving in ...

Here goes 4 eyes injecting nerdy info into the kitschy RPF conversation. Dunedain? Imladris? WTF? you don't know it yet but you have in essence shut down this thread

J/k learned some trivia knowledge today, 1+ nerdy point for you

[juleswin]

I see this sort of headlines as an indicator that the economy is booming cos you got to be very comfortable in your life to be getting all worked up about the treatment of orcs in TLOTR.

Yay Trump?

[William Tell]

Actually, the Dúnedain of the North (i.e., the Rangers) patrolled the Shire's borders - and the areas around Bree and the road to Imladris (Elrond's haven).

It wasn't until they went South to join the War of the Ring that Saruman's henchmen started moving in ...

Yes, that's what happens when no one guards the borders.

[euphemia]

and the entire question of Good v Evil goes drifting off in a haze of confusion.

This. English 101: In a good story there is always a protagonist (good guy) and an antagonist (bad guy).

[euphemia]

Actually, the Dúnedain of the North (i.e., the Rangers) patrolled the Shire's borders - and the areas around Bree and the road to Imladris (Elrond's haven).

It wasn't until they went South to join the War of the Ring that Saruman's henchmen started moving in ...

And then there was Orlando Bloom.

[Suzanimal]

Actually, the Dúnedain of the North (i.e., the Rangers) patrolled the Shire's borders - and the areas around Bree and the road to Imladris (Elrond's haven).

It wasn't until they went South to join the War of the Ring that Saruman's henchmen started moving in ...

I don't remember that part. I actually didn't even realize that the ranger, Strider, and Aragorn were all the same person for awhile there. When I figured that part out, the book made more sense and was much less racist.

[acptulsa]

This. English 101: In a good story there is always a protagonist (good guy) and an antagonist (bad guy).

English 102: Protagonists are only flawless and antagonists are only completely irredeemable in comic books.

[CCTelander]

English 102: Protagonists are only flawless and antagonists are only completely irredeemable in comic books.

Actually, thanks to Stan Lee, this hasn't even been true in comic books since the early 1960s.

[Suzanimal]

English 102: Protagonists are only flawless and antagonists are only completely irredeemable in comic books.

Comic Book 101: Stan Lee. His heroes weren't flawless and his villains weren't always irredeemable.

[acptulsa]

Actually, thanks to Stan Lee, this hasn't even been true in comic books since the early 1960s.

Comic Book 101: Stan Lee. His heroes weren't flawless and his villains weren't always irredeemable.

True enough.

Actually, Creative Writing 101 is a protagonist doesn't have to be a "good guy", he or she must merely make a momentous decision. And an antagonist doesn't have to be a " bad guy", he or she must merely interfere with the protagonist.

I defy anyone to watch the entire The Godfather film franchise and find a single protagonist who is a good guy.

[CCTelander]

Comic Book 101: Stan Lee. His heroes weren't flawless and his villains weren't always irredeemable.

GMTA!

I'd +rep you if I could.

[Suzanimal]

GMTA!

I'd +rep you if I could.

I didn't mean to repeat you. I was in the middle of commenting and decided to go make my cornbread and when I came back I finished my post and noticed you had already posted and thought about just deleting but then I thought of a good gift for oyarde and went to that thread.