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Thread: Why do police ask for ID first?

  1. #1

    Why do police ask for ID first?

    Thoughts?

    I'm watching Live PD and every policy enforcement officer requests ID from everyone before interacting with them further.

    Can anyone tell me why an ID is so important to policy officers?
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  3. #2
    I don't think they always ask for ID first. If they always knew who it was they were encountering they would not have beat up their own in ST Louis. Sometimes a beating comes first. Sometimes not wanting to provide ID turns to beating. It might even be a toss up as to what happens first during a police encounter.

  4. #3
    Hands up, hands up, on the ground, on the ground, stop resisting stop resisting..........

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    I don't think they always ask for ID first. If they always knew who it was they were encountering they would not have beat up their own in ST Louis. Sometimes a beating comes first. Sometimes not wanting to provide ID turns to beating. It might even be a toss up as to what happens first during a police encounter.
    Police officers have to take into account many variables when deciding whether or not to beat someone.
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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Thoughts?

    I'm watching Live PD and every policy enforcement officer requests ID from everyone before interacting with them further.

    Can anyone tell me why an ID is so important to policy officers?
    Apart from checking for outstanding warrants:

    DUI stop or charge in your past? Maybe you're drunk this time. too. Walk the line ...

    Possession collar on your record? Maybe you're holding this time, too. Search your car ...

    And so forth. Otherwise, they'll have to come up with something on their own ...

    IOW: Running your name through their databases can help them find an excuse to harass you enforce the law ...

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Police officers have to take into account many variables when deciding whether or not to beat someone.
    This is true. In this day and age, you can never tell when some lunatic may pull out a camera to record them.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

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  8. #7
    I think a lot of the time it's just a "power" move when it's done unlawfully--a test to see if you respect the costume.
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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Thoughts?

    I'm watching Live PD and every policy enforcement officer requests ID from everyone before interacting with them further.

    Can anyone tell me why an ID is so important to policy officers?
    What is even more interesting,, is when they don't.

    When they stop you and already know your name..

    Curious.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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  11. #9
    There is a legal theory that's been circulating around in the "liberty movement" for decades that applying for and accepting a driver's license (along with birth cirtificates and SS cards) constitutes an adherence contract with the corporate state. The theory goes that if you don't possess any of those instruments you are not subject to the corporate jurisdiction of the state, and they must then deal with you in your sovereign capacity.

    That would be my guess as to what you're aiming at.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Thoughts?

    I'm watching Live PD and every policy enforcement officer requests ID from everyone before interacting with them further.

    Can anyone tell me why an ID is so important to policy officers?
    So they can check for warrants that will allow the state , county , city to collect revenue from the person .
    Do something Danke

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    What is even more interesting,, is when they don't.

    When they stop you and already know your name..

    Curious.
    Reminds me of High School.
    Do something Danke

  14. #12
    Its because they need to write reports and the ID of a person in an encounter is information they need on the report.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    There is a legal theory that's been circulating around in the "liberty movement" for decades that applying for and accepting a driver's license (along with birth cirtificates and SS cards) constitutes an adherence contract with the corporate state. The theory goes that if you don't possess any of those instruments you are not subject to the corporate jurisdiction of the state, and they must then deal with you in your sovereign capacity.

    That would be my guess as to what you're aiming at.
    You think kops are that educated?

    That is the problem with so many of those theories, they assume that just because something is written down in some obscure law book somewhere that it is actually operative in the real world.

    If the kops and the judges don't know about it or don't believe in it then it doesn't matter, that cuts both ways in point of fact, we get more of our rights respected than such theories would predict because the kops and courts don't operate based on them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

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    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

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    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

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  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You think kops are that educated?

    That is the problem with so many of those theories, they assume that just because something is written down in some obscure law book somewhere that it is actually operative in the real world.

    If the kops and the judges don't know about it or don't believe in it then it doesn't matter, that cuts both ways in point of fact, we get more of our rights respected than such theories would predict because the kops and courts don't operate based on them.

    No, I don't think copscwould generally be aware of this kind of thing, nor do I ascribe to that particular theory. It was just my guess as to what devil21 might be aiming at.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  17. #15
    One snowy winter late at night about a decade ago I was giving an employee a ride home after we worked over on second shift . I was driving a black 4X4 Chevy Blazer with tinted glass and I just rolled through a stop ( no cars on the streets ) and out of nowhere a city cop pulls me over . I hand him my license and registration, he looks and hands them back He asks for my buddies ID . I could hardly contain my mirth because I had seen it before . He had no drivers license so it was just a state ID card , it did have his real name on it though . He pulls it out of his wallet , hands it to me and I hand it to the cop . It is completely snapped in half . The cop holds it together , looks at it , looks at me .I smile and he just shakes his head and gives it back to us and we leave. He was interested in my tire gauge I had laying up top after looking at my registration. Asked if it was a bowl I said no It was a tire gauge and if it was a bowl I would not lay it on the dash . LOL . Not really sure that young fella should be driving a car around in the snow late at night by himself .
    Do something Danke

  18. #16
    Gotta be sure you aren't an illegal alien. We have to check everybody. We have to do it. You want more freedom, right?
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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Gotta be sure you aren't an illegal alien. We have to check everybody. We have to do it. You want more freedom, right?
    That's the one person they would not be checking in many places around the country.

    IDs and checkpoints and TSA is for the idiot chumps and citizens and AmeriKunts who still won't believe they are under attack and being invaded.

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    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 11-30-2018 at 07:55 PM.

  21. #18
    Next time a cops pulls me over, I'll be sure to let him off with a warning.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    There is a legal theory that's been circulating around in the "liberty movement" for decades that applying for and accepting a driver's license (along with birth cirtificates and SS cards) constitutes an adherence contract with the corporate state. The theory goes that if you don't possess any of those instruments you are not subject to the corporate jurisdiction of the state, and they must then deal with you in your sovereign capacity.

    That would be my guess as to what you're aiming at.
    Interesting thought you posted there.

    An ID is signed. A wise man once told me that anything I sign constitutes agreement to a contract (pledging some sort of future performance), otherwise why would something need a signature? Come to think of it, that same cop would require a signature on a speeding ticket or summons or arrest paperwork too. So aren't those contracts too? If true, then maybe the ID doesn't identify you but rather identifies a corporation that can enter into a contract. By requesting ID at the beginning of an interaction, maybe the policy official is coercing someone to establish that they are willingly acting as the representative of the corporation named on the ID?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Interesting thought you posted there.

    An ID is signed. A wise man once told me that anything I sign constitutes agreement to a contract (pledging some sort of future performance), otherwise why would something need a signature? Come to think of it, that same cop would require a signature on a speeding ticket or summons or arrest paperwork too. So aren't those contracts too? If true, then maybe the ID doesn't identify you but rather identifies a corporation that can enter into a contract. By requesting ID at the beginning of an interaction, maybe the policy official is coercing someone to establish that they are willingly acting as the representative of the corporation named on the ID?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You think kops are that educated?

    That is the problem with so many of those theories, they assume that just because something is written down in some obscure law book somewhere that it is actually operative in the real world.

    If the kops and the judges don't know about it or don't believe in it then it doesn't matter, that cuts both ways in point of fact, we get more of our rights respected than such theories would predict because the kops and courts don't operate based on them.

    ...
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    ...
    Assuming for a moment that you are correct in your wide-ranging assumption of ignorance within the legal field, cops aren't known for being terribly bright but they are known for following orders and training exceptionally well.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Assuming for a moment that you are correct in your wide-ranging assumption of ignorance within the legal field, cops aren't known for being terribly bright but they are known for following orders and training exceptionally well.
    Can you show me one court ruling that cites the kind of thing you talk about?

    If kops, lawyers and judges don't know or believe in obscure laws and don't operate based on them then they are dead like many other obsolete laws that are still on the books.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Can you show me one court ruling that cites the kind of thing you talk about?
    Lower courts don't issue opinions so there are no case dismissals based on such jurisdictional arguments to cite.

    If kops, lawyers and judges don't know or believe in obscure laws and don't operate based on them then they are dead like many other obsolete laws that are still on the books.
    Why are you automatically assuming that they don't know, don't believe or don't operate based on them?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Lower courts don't issue opinions so there are no case dismissals based on such jurisdictional arguments to cite.
    Do you have any from higher courts?


    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Why are you automatically assuming that they don't know, don't believe or don't operate based on them?
    Because in all my experience and reading I have seen ZERO indication that they do.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Do you have any from higher courts?
    Put on your thinking cap and noodle through why your question doesn't make any sense.

    Because in all my experience and reading I have seen ZERO indication that they do.
    How so? Give examples.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Put on your thinking cap and noodle through why your question doesn't make any sense.
    You tell me, surely such issues would make for good appeal material.


    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    How so? Give examples.
    I'm supposed to give examples of what I haven't seen?


    Will this do?

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You tell me, surely such issues would make for good appeal material.
    Thinking cap still not on, eh? Let me help you out. Why would someone whose case is dismissed for lack of jurisdiction appeal the dismissal?

    I'm supposed to give examples of what I haven't seen?
    Yes, give personal examples of how you arrived at the assumption that police, attorneys and judges don't follow legal principles that this thread is about.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Thinking cap still not on, eh? Let me help you out. Why would someone whose case is dismissed for lack of jurisdiction appeal the dismissal?
    I'm thinking of someone whose case should have been dismissed but it wasn't so they appealed and got the higher court to dismiss the case.
    Or do you claim that lower courts always rule correctly on such matters?


    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Yes, give personal examples of how you arrived at the assumption that police, attorneys and judges don't follow legal principles that this thread is about.
    I told you that I arrived at that assumption because I have seen ZERO evidence that they do follow such legal principles.
    Here is another example to go with the one I already gave you:


    How about you give me examples of them following such principles?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm thinking of someone whose case should have been dismissed but it wasn't so they appealed and got the higher court to dismiss the case.
    Or do you claim that lower courts always rule correctly on such matters?
    The judges know whether they have obtained jurisdiction or not. Here's another tip. Having an attorney means automatic consent to jurisdiction since the attorney "appears" on your behalf to argue for you.

    I told you that I arrived at that assumption because I have seen ZERO evidence that they do follow such legal principles.
    You've spent much time in court to witness such things?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    The judges know whether they have obtained jurisdiction or not.
    So you ARE claiming that lower courts always rule correctly on such matters.
    LOL



    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Here's another tip. Having an attorney means automatic consent to jurisdiction since the attorney "appears" on your behalf to argue for you.
    That just isn't true, I have a relative whose court case involved a real question of jurisdiction and the lawyer made a special filing to inform the court that it lacked jurisdiction, they won.




    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    You've spent much time in court to witness such things?
    My family has had sufficient experience with the judicial system to make an informed guess. (see the example above)


    I'm still waiting for you to give me any examples of the kops or the courts following such principles.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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