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Thread: Even Tom Woods Can't Take the Right Wing Version of TDS

  1. #1

    Even Tom Woods Can't Take the Right Wing Version of TDS

    And he's still got a mild case of it himself...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Woods
    Tom Woods: In which I blast the MAGA people
    View in browser
    I thought arguing with SJWs was maddening and pointless.

    I'd forgotten about what the so-called right wing can be like.

    Now look: I understand people who find Trump entertaining, who are creeped out by his Deep State opponents, who appreciate his occasional deviations from foreign-policy orthodoxy, his deregulation, etc.

    But for heaven's sake, be reasonable: Trump is a pragmatist, not an anti-state ideologue. Is that even debatable?

    And that's all Stockman is saying. He's saying that Bush, Obama, and Trump alike have a pro-state bias to their thought and economic policy. None has come close to cutting spending or getting a handle on the severe unfunded liabilities problem.

    Trump didn't even campaign on those things, so it's not even that we're accusing him of breaking a promise. You can't break a promise you never made.

    The rest of Stockman's point is that the real problem here is the Federal Reserve, which has hurt Americans of all classes. Who can argue with that?

    Trump supporters, evidently.

    The entire thread consists of people calling Stockman a "liberal" -- as if liberals criticize the Fed and demand sound money!

    These folks don't even understand what they're supposed to believe.

    Oh, Woods, go easy on them. Teach them!

    I'm trying!

    But I have zero sympathy for people who ignorantly denounce David Stockman -- who's 98% sound on economics and monetary policy in particular -- for being, of all things, a left-liberal!

    His point is that Trump is a statist. He used that exact word. Now you may disagree with that description of Trump, but it obviously isn't something a liberal would say. To call Stockman a "liberal" (in the American sense, obviously) is as uncomprehending as it gets. He would be the first liberal ever to criticize Trump for favoring too much government.

    Stockman criticizes "the state's central banking branch," and the MAGA folks in the comments can't come to the central bank's defense fast enough.

    All right, all right, most of them know nothing about the central bank.

    So maybe shutting up might not be a bad idea?

    Shouldn't their instinct be that a government-established central bank with monopoly privileges is probably a bad idea?

    Instead, a critic like Stockman gets lambasted as a "liberal" -- as if liberals are known for their criticisms, rather than instinctual defenses, of the Fed.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And he's still got a mild case of it himself...

    Sounds like the kind of thing that goes on around here every single day.

    I'd +rep you if I could.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Sounds like the kind of thing that goes on around here every single day.

    I'd +rep you if I could.
    The Partisan Curse.

    I can see blind support of a football team. But blind support of Team Red and Team Blue is clearly a recipe for tyranny.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  5. #4
    I can't comment on Stockman's article or any replies to it because I haven't read them but I doubt he was arguing with real Trump supporters, real Trump supporters would know that he is making the Fed an enemy.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I can't comment on Stockman's article or any replies to it because I haven't read them but I doubt he was arguing with real Trump supporters, real Trump supporters would know that he is making the Fed an enemy.
    The No True Scotsman Fallacy again?

    I think you set a new Broken Record record.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The No True Scotsman Fallacy again?

    I think you set a new Broken Record record.
    Because you actually want to claim that internet troll don't pretend to be or support things they don't?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Because you actually want to claim that internet troll don't pretend to be or support things they don't?
    I don't even know what it means to pretend to be things they don't. But I do know for a fact that genuine partisan Republicans have been calling people names they don't even understand since before you were born.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I can't comment on Stockman's article or any replies to it because I haven't read them but I doubt he was arguing with real Trump supporters, real Trump supporters would know that he is making the Fed an enemy.
    I'm a Trump supporter, and you are giving the average Trump supporter too much credit. There are more Trump supporters than there ever were Ron Paul supporters by a level of magnitude. When you are talking about such a large number of people, you start running into problems with the law of averages, specifically average intelligence and education. Do you really think the average Trump supporter even knows what the federal reserve is, let alone understand the harm it causes? The average trump supporter is more into sharing a video on Facebook of Trump smacking down CNN or something to that effect.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandmastersexsay View Post
    I'm a Trump supporter, and you are giving the average Trump supporter too much credit. There are more Trump supporters than there ever were Ron Paul supporters by a level of magnitude. When you are talking about such a large number of people, you start running into problems with the law of averages, specifically average intelligence and education. Do you really think the average Trump supporter even knows what the federal reserve is, let alone understand the harm it causes? The average trump supporter is more into sharing a video on Facebook of Trump smacking down CNN or something to that effect.
    Perhaps but that makes the OP meaningless and wrong anyway, any Trump supporter that supports the Fed isn't suffering from "right-wing TDS" they are suffering from ignorance about the Fed and about Trump's position, "right-wing TDS" would imply that someone takes Trump's position without thinking for themselves and Trump's position is that the Fed is an enemy.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 11-28-2018 at 05:11 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandmastersexsay View Post
    Do you really think the average Trump supporter even knows what the federal reserve is, let alone understand the harm it causes?
    He probably does. I think you are underestimating the silly things one can believe when one had Right Wing TDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Perhaps but that makes the OP meaningless and wrong anyway, any Trump supporter that supports the Fed isn't suffering from "right-wing TDS" they are suffering from ignorance about the Fed and about Trump's position, "right-wing" TDS would imply that someone takes Trump's position without thinking for themselves and Trump's position is tha tthe Fed is an enemy.
    You didn't invent the phrase Right Wing TDS. You have Right Wing TDS. Yet you expect us to take you seriously when you attempt to define the conditions and symptoms of Right Wing TDS?

    Sorry. You're SOL.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-28-2018 at 05:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Sounds like the kind of thing that goes on around here every single day.

    I'd +rep you if I could.

    Done.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I missed out on the dick pills , they any good ?

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I can't comment on Stockman's article or any replies to it because I haven't read them but I doubt he was arguing with real Trump supporters, real Trump supporters would know that he is making the Fed an enemy.
    No he's not, he just wants more extemely low interest rates just like his predecesors.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I missed out on the dick pills , they any good ?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Done.

    Thanks!

    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Origanalist again."
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Thanks!

    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Origanalist again."
    Done!

    (You're not off the hook, though. I was going to do it anyway)
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  17. #15
    Sounds like he's positioning himself to switch sides if/when Google Analytics tells him that's the economical move.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  18. #16
    Now look: I understand people who find Trump entertaining, who are creeped out by his Deep State opponents, who appreciate his occasional deviations from foreign-policy orthodoxy, his deregulation, etc.

    But for heaven's sake, be reasonable: Trump is a pragmatist, not an anti-state ideologue. Is that even debatable?
    Not not debatable at all.

    Clearly factual, and this is roughly where I am vis a vis Trump.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Not not debatable at all.

    Clearly factual, and this is roughly where I am vis a vis Trump.
    Somehow the TDS crowd missed that part and failed to burn Woods at the stake for not declaring Trump to be the devil incarnate.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Somehow the TDS crowd missed that part and failed to burn Woods at the stake for not declaring Trump to be the devil incarnate.
    So, you're saying Those People aren't being evil enough to suit you? If you were them, you'd burn someone alive because you're the good guys?

    Or are you just saying what your straw man would have done if he had thought of it?
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  22. #19
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Woods
    Now look: I understand people who find Trump entertaining, who are creeped out by his Deep State opponents, who appreciate his occasional deviations from foreign-policy orthodoxy, his deregulation, etc.

    But for heaven's sake, be reasonable: Trump is a pragmatist, not an anti-state ideologue. Is that even debatable?
    Not not debatable at all.

    Clearly factual, and this is roughly where I am vis a vis Trump.
    Pragmatism in itself is a meaningless concept; it must be in relation to some goal.

    Rand is a pragmatic libertarian (pragmatically pursuing the goal of libertarianism), Bernie a pragmatic socialist (pragmatic pursuing socialism), etc.

    Q. In relation to what goal is Trump a pragmatist; what is he trying to accomplish (pragmatically)?

    A. Self-aggrandizement

    ...which makes him "pragmatic" in just the same way as 99% of politicians.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Pragmatism in itself is a meaningless concept; it must be in relation to some goal.

    Rand is a pragmatic libertarian (pragmatically pursuing the goal of libertarianism), Bernie a pragmatic socialist (pragmatic pursuing socialism), etc.

    Q. In relation to what goal is Trump a pragmatist; what is he trying to accomplish (pragmatically)?

    A. Self-aggrandizement

    ...which makes him "pragmatic" in just the same way as 99% of politicians.
    Trump ia a pragmatic nationalist which makes him much better than 99% of politicians.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump ia a pragmatic nationalist...
    Oh, clearly...

    http://time.com/4629308/donald-trump...map/#trump_map

    Based on the financial disclosure report he filed last year, Trump appears to own or control more than 500 businesses in some two-dozen countries around the world.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-28-2018 at 07:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Pragmatism in itself is a meaningless concept; it must be in relation to some goal.
    The goal is to encourage economic growth by reducing regulation and taxation, stimulating manufacturing growth which leads to good paying middle class jobs without having to go into $100,000 of college debt by means of pursuing trade and tariff policies that favor US businesses over foreign or transnational businesses.

    In his drunken monkey way, that is what is driving Trump's policies.

    Up until this month, when it became pretty clear that the AmeriKunt people prefer Bolshevik communism, it seemed to be working.

    I know for a fact it was working for me, personally.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.
    Truth.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I missed out on the dick pills , they any good ?



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The No True Scotsman Fallacy again?

    I think you set a new Broken Record record.

    He's a living breathing No True Scotsman Fallacy. Just sayin'.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The goal is to encourage economic growth by reducing regulation and taxation
    Tariffs and bureaucratic red-tape regarding trade mysteriously not counted as regulation and taxation.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  31. #27
    Does Woods grasp how ginormously large the Trumper propaganda shill operation is?

    No doubt there are some ignorants who label any commentary that doesn't genuflect at the Temple of MAGA but I'm 100% convinced that there is a very coordinated propaganda operation underway to keep criticism of Trump quieted, mainly using "libtard!!11!1!" labels the exact same way the left uses "racist!!11!1!" labels. What Woods and Stockman are experiencing reeks of coordinated attack, not genuine commentary from average Joes.

    As if average Joe Trump supporter is really interested in reading Tom Woods or Stockman commentary in the first place. Such commentary is way, way out of their sphere of comprehension so they wouldn't even bother in the first place. They're more suited for Breitbart or Fox News comment sections...
    Last edited by devil21; 11-30-2018 at 02:29 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Does Woods grasp how ginormously large the Trumper propaganda shill operation is?

    No doubt there are some ignorants who label any commentary that doesn't genuflect at the Temple of MAGA but I'm 100% convinced that there is a very coordinated propaganda operation underway to keep criticism of Trump quieted, mainly using "libtard!!11!1!" labels the exact same way the left uses "racist!!11!1!" labels. What Woods and Stockman are experiencing reeks of coordinated attack, not genuine commentary from average Joes.

    As if average Joe Trump supporter is really interested in reading Tom Woods or Stockman commentary in the first place. Such commentary is way, way out of their sphere of comprehension so they wouldn't even bother in the first place. They're more suited for Breitbart or Fox News comment sections...
    Yep, I think that you pretty much nailed it.
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Cap View Post
    Yep, I think that you pretty much nailed it.
    He definitely nailed it.

  34. #30
    I don't hav e any rep for PAF or Devil21, you both will have to settle on a simple thank you for your contributions to the board.
    ClydeCoulter on the Liberty Movement:
    Yeah, they'll argue over roads and religion, but there are certain themes that bind, among those are freedom and the search for truth and justice.

    Loyalists gonna loyal.

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