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Thread: GM To Cut 14,700 Jobs And Close Plants In North America

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    It wont be the first/last time you and I disagree - I promise that I wont hold it against you.
    So far as I remember you have always been civil and reasonable so I don't hold our disagreements against you either.

    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    As a libertarian, I see nothing wrong with foreign governments subsidizing US customers through poor economic/trade policies.
    Well you should, it creates dependence and undermines liberty and the independence of our country.

    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    Also, as an unwilling contributor to foreign and corporate aid, I relish the idea of a foreign government sending me subsidies.
    Two wrongs don't make a right, I encourage you to take advantage of what you can in your personal life to "get even" but you should support ending the policy of allowing foreign governments to undermine our economy and make us vulnerable to socialism and world government.

    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    Ask the Mexican government how they feel about US amnesty and providing welfare to illegal aliens... I'm sure Nieto its just disgusted with Mexican citizens benefiting from our welfare. If we debased our currency to make our products cheaper, I'm sure they would be just as delighted.
    Mexico is dependent on the US and loses much of its independence and sovereignty because of it, I don't think we should put ourselves in the same position with China, they are going to be much worse for liberty than the US empire has been.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #122
    https://thehill.com/business-a-lobby...-to-gm-layoffs

    He has threatened car or car part tariffs many times. All problems can be solved by either the military or tariffs.

    Trump floats new auto tariffs in response to GM layoffs

    President Trump

    President Trump on Wednesday hinted he may support new tariffs on auto imports as his latest response to General Motors' decision to shutter U.S. factories and lay off workers.

    In a series of tweets, Trump argued that a longstanding 25 percent tariff on light trucks has boosted U.S. auto manufacturers and that the same approach could work for cars.

    ”If we did that with cars coming in, many more cars would be built here and G.M. would not be closing their plants in Ohio, Michigan & Maryland. Get smart Congress,” Trump wrote.

    The president said major auto exporting countries “have taken advantage of the U.S. for decades" and warned “that the president has great power on this issue.”

    ”Because of the G.M. event, it is being studied now!” he wrote.

    The comments follow a report in the German media that Trump is considering slapping a 25 percent tariff on car imports from all countries aside from Mexico and Canada. Trump previously decided to put off auto tariffs on Europe in exchange for the European Union agreeing to purchase more American soybeans.

    General Motors' announcement this week angered Trump, who views the U.S. economy as a reflection of his presidency. The plant closures and layoffs, combined with a sputtering stock market and rising interests rates, appear to have sparked fears of an economic downturn and prompted Trump to lash out.

    Trump blamed Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell for the stock-market slide and the GM layoffs, citing his decision to raise interest rates. The president said he also spoke to GM CEO Mary Barra to relay his unhappiness with the decision and threatened to end GM's federal tax credit for electric vehicles.

    GM has said slow demand for cars in the U.S. market, combined with tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminum, have hurt sales and forced the company to shutter plants in Lordstown, Ohio; Detroit-Hamtramck, Mich.; and White Marsh, Md.

    The U.S. imposed a 25 percent tariff on imported light trucks in 1964 after France and West Germany imposed tariffs on U.S. chicken, hence the name ”chicken tax.”
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  4. #123
    Step 1: Try to micromanage everything.

    Step 2: Take every response personally and start making micromanagement decisions based on spite.

    Step 3: Holler, 'Who made this terrible mess?!'
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    This isn't denate - this is trolling. Please answer my question - why are you allowed to post here? Someone told me that you hold an ownership stake here. Is that true?
    Nothing would surprise me any more. Most influential websites and forums were bought out by various arms of TPTB over the course of Obama's presidency. They're pretty much all tools of TPTB now, though some are more obviously co-opted (ahem Breitbart) than others. There's few things TPTB hate more than not having control over something.

    If Zippy or whatever entity that controls the Zippy handle is paid to post here, it's like printing money, buying a stake in a forum and constantly posting on it. I've figured Zippy is a paid-per-post handle since very few posts aren't written in a manner to elicit replies, with questions seeking replies.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    You don't like Democrats?

    Where do yo stand on current WH?
    There were some controversial memes suggesting it was being run by Democrats also:


    Report: Donald Trump donated $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation


  7. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    You don't like Democrats?

    Where do yo stand on current WH?
    There were some controversial memes suggesting it was being run by Democrats also:




    Report: Donald Trump donated $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation
    If you want to do big business in NYC you must make the right payoffs and say all the PC things.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If you want to do big business in NYC you must make the right payoffs and say all the PC things.
    And hire them to be your main trade and manufacturing policy advisor?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  9. #128
    It has nothing to do with tariffs.

    The Great Winnowing

    https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2018...eat-winnowing/

    By eric - November 29, 201820564

    GM’s announcement the other day that it will no longer make cars – or rather, just a few – follows Ford’s previous announcement along the same lines.

    Chevy will lose more than half of its currently available passenger car models, including the full-size Impala sedan, the mid-size Cruze and the compact Sonic. Plus the functionally viable Volt electric car, which gets the noose for probably just that reason (separate rant; see here for more about that).

    Ford has already shed its entire Mercury division and GM its Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Saturn divisions.

    More will inevitably follow.

    Because how many different ways can GM re-sell the same relative handful of closely related crossovers and trucks? And how long will GM (or anyone else) be able to sell trucks and SUVs at all, given the anvil descending of a mandatory minimum 50 MPG federal fatwa?

    Cadillac, GM’s luxury division, is probably living on borrowed time.

    Its cars were different from Chevy and Buick’s cars because Cadillac’s cars – models like the ATS and CT6 – were almost all based on a rear-drive layout, while almost everything sold by the lesser divisions – excepting specialty cars like the Camaro and Corvette, which survive, for now – was built on a FWD layout.

    But GM is kiboshing the ATS and CT6 and possibly the not-yet-here (and may never get here) 2019 CT8 sedan.

    If these go away, Cadillac is left with its re-badged and heavily upsold Chevy Tahoe – aka, the “Cadillac” Escalade – and rebadged/upsold GMC Acadias (the “Cadillac” XT5) and rebadged/upsold GMC Terrains (“Cadillac” XT4) which are also rebadged Chevy Equinoxes.

    Given the Chevy and GMC progenitors of these “Cadillacs” offer almost everything you can get in the Cadillac-badged versions – but for a lot less money – why bother with the Cadillac versions?

    This is a general problem, not just Cadillac’s.

    There is much less in the way of meaningful distinction between the “entry level” car and the “entry luxury” car and the “luxury car” than there once was. Try finding any car without AC and power windows – or even an LCD touchscreen, for that matter. The differences which used to exist between a Chevette and a Sedan deVille no longer do.

    One of the few points of departure still extant is rear-drive vs. front-drive layouts, the latter being historically (and currently) associated with lower-tier cars while the former has long been the defining characteristic of something a cut-above.

    And now Cadillac won’t have that, or not much of that.

    Has Mary Barra thought about this? Or is it part of the plan?

    To slow-motion euthanize Cadillac?

    Ford is walking the same Green Mile. It will sell the same crossover-ish thing in three different sizes, small medium and large – but at least under the same label.

    Chrysler has almost nothing left to sell. One minivan and one car, the venerable 300 sedan. Fiat – the owner of what remains of Chrysler – has not committed to new anything for Chrysler, which slowly twists in the wind.

    Dodge – also owned by Fiat – hasn’t had a new model in years. It has had models – trucks – ripped from its model lineup, to be “spun off” as a separate brand (Ram trucks) which is as ominous an indicator of Dodge’s future as black spots on an x-ray of your lungs.

    Every car company, just about, has committed to building several electric cars, at the least. Some – like Volvo – to building only electrified cars. But without something different under the hood – electric motors and batteries being pretty much the same, other than some being larger, others smaller – why even bother with these brands?

    Especially brands like Porsche – which is among the EV beguiled. A silent (and shiftless, electric motors are one speed) Porsche is like a 2◊4 among the stacks of them at Home Depot. Would you pay four times as much for the 2◊4 that has “Porsche” stamped on it?

    A great winnowing – and consolidation – is under way.

    Cars are becoming interchangeable modules – and one only needs so many versions of the same thing. Red or white or blue? A larger – or smaller – touchscreen?

    This homogenization of transportation may not be deliberate – it’s mostly the result of decades of government mandates, which have had the effect of imposing a general sameness on vehicle design – but it serves a definite purpose:

    It detaches people emotionally from cars – and from driving.

    What does it matter if the bus you’re boarding is yellow or silver? Or has 30 seats rather than 40? Do you pay much attention to the taxi you just climbed into? Most people log onto Facebook or otherwise bury themselves in gadgetry as soon as they sit down.

    Cars are becoming places where you sit for awhile.

    And this is probably exactly what GM – and Ford – ultimately have in mind. This isn’t even a wild-eyed supposition. They have said so – openly. GM’s announcement earlier this week about the mass die-off of its passenger car lineup was accompanied by soothsaying about the company’s “transition(s) to self-driving electric” cars.

    Which gives the lie to the odd prattle about “focusing on trucks and SUVs,” the fatuity eructed by Mary Barra and her amen chorus when the death knell tolled. How, exactly, will GM “focus” on such vehicles when the 50 MPG CAFE fatwa goes into effect come 2025? And what is Barra up to, given she has to know that not a single truck or SUV GM makes – or can make and still qualify as a truck or SUV – rates anything close to 50 MPG?

    What was it Sherlock Holmes said?

    The game’s afoot!



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  11. #129
    Fuel Riots – The Paris Preview

    https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2018...paris-preview/

    By eric - November 27, 2018

    They’re rioting in France over the government’s imposition of artificial fuel scarcity.

    There’s no actual shortage; the country – the world – is swimming in fuel, courtesy of new discoveries and new extraction techniques.

    Parisians just can’t afford to buy it because of French President Emmanuel Macron’s “hydrocarbon tax” regime – specifically designed to make fuel unaffordable, as a compensatory measure to correct for its abundance and the low prices that would otherwise be the case.

    As here.

    Adjusted for inflation, the cost of gasoline is less in real terms than it was in 1965. And a huge chunk of the cost today is taxes – about 50 cents per gallon. Take that away and gas would only cost about $2 per gallon.

    Diesel fuel – despite the add-on costs of having to refine it to the nth degree in order to achieve compliance with federal Ultra Low Sulfur fatwas – is also very affordable, about $2.60 per gallon.

    This, of course, is a big problem for the getting-people-out-of-their-cars agenda. Of which Macron (the Beto O’ Rourke of the French) is a leading avatar.

    Which agenda had pinned its hopes on the perception of naturally rising fuel prices (also artificially created, via the withholding of oil) as the nudge they needed to get people to give up their cars voluntarily.

    But the Peak Oil that’s been promised – threatened – for more than half a century never peaked.

    Worse – from the standpoint of those who want to get-us-out-of-cars – is that the opposite has happened. More oil has been found. Oceans of the stuff. So much oil has been discovered that despite a more than doubling of worldwide demand, supply has increased even faster.

    This has eliminated the excuse for all the government-imposed austerity measures of the past 50 years – everything from the “Drive 55” water torture we endured from the mid-1970s until the mid-1990s to the Corporate Average Fuel Economy fatwas that are literally destroying the car industry.

    And the disappearance of that excuse is an obsidian dagger pointed at the heart of the Electric Car Agenda, which is really an anti-car, anti-mobility agenda. The object is to get people out of their cars. To get them under control. EVs are just the shuck-and-jive used to gull the modern-day version of Lenin’s useful idiots.

    Bottom line: If fuel is plentiful then there is no reason for “alternatives” to it.

    At least, no reason for most people to freely give up their affordable, quick-to-refuel and long-ranged non-electric cars in favor of expensive, takes-forever-to-recharge and range-gimped EVs.

    And this is the reason for the hysteria we’re witnessing – from governments like Macron’s as well as ours – attended by the courtier press, which sings the “climate change” chorus at top volume, to drown out the problem of cheap, abundant fuel.

    And for Macron’s “hydrocarbon tax.”

    It has caused the price per liter of diesel fuel in France to swell by almost 25 percent over by the past year, to about $7 per gallon as of late November. This is a very big deal in France because more than half the passenger cars on the road are diesel-powered.

    They became so popular because of artificially rising gas prices. The French government, like other European governments, has been imposing haltingly regressive taxes on gas for decades.

    A diesel-powered car goes farther on a liter of fuel than an equivalent gas-burning car. Buying a diesel-powered car was thus an end run around government-manufactured unleaded regular austerity.

    Now, it’s diesel that’s in the crosshairs – precisely because it is abundant, efficient and affordable.

    And it’s not just the fuel, either.

    The French government has issued decrees forbidding diesel-powered cars made in 2005 or before from entering Paris and will progressively increase these bans until diesel-powered cars are outlawed altogether.

    This, of course, renders those cars – several hundred thousand of them – useless to their owners, who will not be compensated for the regulatory taking. Instead, they will be nudged to become parasitical upon their fellow Frenchmen, by partaking of subsidies for . . . electric cars.

    Until, of course, those become the object of future bans. Which, rest assured, they will be. Remember: The real issue is mobility. Limiting, controlling and denying it – to average people.

    Never, of course, to the elites. Macron will have all the diesel and gas he likes. Paid for by those who can no longer afford it themselves.

    And there’s more.

    All IC powered cars (diesel and gas) will be prohibited from operating in the French capital beginning in 2030 and a ban on their sale in the whole country goes into effect in 2040. Similar measures are either in process or already on the books in other European countries, including the UK and Germany.

    And this is why there is such unglued hysteria – displayed by the car companies and the government – for electric cars here, too.

    Major automakers headquartered in Europe such as Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo, Renault, VW/Audi, Jaguar/Land Rover and Alfa have had their businesses shut down by regulatory edict.

    They will go electric – or they will not go at all.

    And because of that, so will we.

    Even if Uncle doesn’t impose no-driving/no IC fatwas and/or confiscatory fuel taxes, the rip-tide effect of what is going on right now in Europe will almost certainly drag us along.

    Consider: Half of the world’s major car companies have “committed” – that is, been forced to accept – an all-electric future because of what is going on in Europe. They aren’t going to continue investing R&D money into the development of a separate line of non-electric cars, even if they are still allowed to sell them here. So they will sell electric cars here and – having embraced the tar baby – push for mandates that they be sold and for subsidies to help sell them.

    GM and Ford will do so also – have already committed publicly to the same agenda. In part because they can’t afford to not sell cars in Europe, which are huge markets for them both.

    China, too.

    It’s not personal – just business. Like Michael Corleone said.

  12. #130
    May I Retain My Domain, Your Eminence?

    ------------

    GM Will Shut Down Factory Built on Land Seized in Controversial 1981 Poletown Taking https://reason.com/volokh/2018/11/27...t-on-land-seiz

    Yesterday, General Motors announced the planned closing of five plants in the US and Canada. One of the factories that will be shut down is in Hamtramck, Michigan. The plant was originally built as a result of the 1981 Poletown condemnations, in which the City of Detroit used eminent domain to forcibly displace some 4000 people:

    Maybe the naysayers were right all along.

    General Motors' decision to close its Hamtramck assembly plant recalls one of the most bitter development controversies in Michigan's history. Closing the plant will no doubt open old wounds — and raise anew questions of who benefits from such massive urban revitalization projects like the Hamtramck plant....

    By the early 1980s, then-Mayor Coleman Young was seeking to create jobs for economically distressed Detroit. He agreed to support General Motors' plan to build its new assembly plant on the border of Detroit and Hamtramck.

    But the more than 300-acre site was home to a Polish neighborhood known as Poletown. It featured about 4,000 residents, more than
    1,000 houses, several Catholic churches and more than 100 businesses.

    That neighborhood stood in the way of GM's plant. In a bold and hotly contested move, officials used government's eminent domain
    powers to seize and raze those properties on GM's behalf. It made national news, got people like consumer advocate Ralph Nader
    involved, and the many protests included a nearly monthlong sit-in at the neighborhood's Immaculate Conception Church that police eventually broke up with arrests.

    The opponents took their case to the Michigan Supreme Court, which, in 1981, decided to back the GM project. The court said that taking property from one private owner to give to another private owner in
    the name of economic development was an acceptable use of eminent domain.

    The closure of the plant some 37 years after the Poletown condemnations were upheld in court doesn't by itself prove that the takings were unjustified. We cannot expect any factory to remain open forever – and indeed keeping unprofitable facilities open actually damages the economy in the long run. What does undermine the “economic development” rationale for the Poletown condemnations is that the use of eminent domain destroyed far more value than it created. As I described in a 2004 article about the Poletown case and its aftermath, the new factory never created anything close to the 6000 jobs promised by GM and city officials. On the other hand, an enormous amount of harm was caused by the displacement of 4000 people, and the destruction of numerous homes, businesses, churches, and schools. In addition, local, state, and federal governments spent some $250 million in public funds on the project (GM paid only $8 million to acquire the land). That money could have been better spent elsewhere. Poletown and other similar cases demonstrate that the use of eminent domain to forcibly displace people for private development projects is both unjust and likely to harm local economies more than it benefits them.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-02-2018 at 09:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  13. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    13 states where you can't buy a Tesla.

    Americans suck at business management. The US car companies deserve to die and be replaced by the foreign ones that treat workers as sources of ideas instead of noisy robots.
    + rep
    - SUPPORT FREE TRADE, SMUGGLE -

    2 + 2 = 5.

  14. #132
    Another campaign promise broken.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  15. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Another campaign promise broken.
    LOL
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL
    If I’m elected.... you won’t lose one plant, I promise you that
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?c47627...-plant-promise
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  17. #135
    It's still ridiculous to blame him for this.

    And several car companies are looking at building new plants here.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's still ridiculous to blame him for this.
    It's ridiculous to say Trump made promises during the campaign he had no way to keep?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-02-2018 at 08:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.



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  20. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Tulsa R3's - Ron Paul Revolution list: "May I Retain My Domain, Your Eminence?"
    R
    Ryan Underwood (Meetup)
    to ronpaul-32
    18 minutes agoDetails
    Ryan Underwood (Organizer) sent a new message to the Tulsa R3's – Ron Paul Revolution mailing list:

    May I Retain My Domain, Your Eminence?

    ------------

    GM Will Shut Down Factory Built on Land Seized in Controversial 1981 Poletown Taking https://reason.com/volokh/2018/11/27...t-on-land-seiz

    Yesterday, General Motors announced the planned closing of five plants in the US and Canada. One of the factories that will be shut down is in Hamtramck, Michigan. The plant was originally built as a result of the 1981 Poletown condemnations, in which the City of Detroit used eminent domain to forcibly displace some 4000 people:

    Maybe the naysayers were right all along.

    General Motors' decision to close its Hamtramck assembly plant recalls one of the most bitter development controversies in Michigan's history. Closing the plant will no doubt open old wounds — and raise anew questions of who benefits from such massive urban revitalization projects like the Hamtramck plant....

    By the early 1980s, then-Mayor Coleman Young was seeking to create jobs for economically distressed Detroit. He agreed to support General Motors' plan to build its new assembly plant on the border of Detroit and Hamtramck.

    But the more than 300-acre site was home to a Polish neighborhood known as Poletown. It featured about 4,000 residents, more than
    1,000 houses, several Catholic churches and more than 100 businesses.

    That neighborhood stood in the way of GM's plant. In a bold and hotly contested move, officials used government's eminent domain
    powers to seize and raze those properties on GM's behalf. It made national news, got people like consumer advocate Ralph Nader
    involved, and the many protests included a nearly monthlong sit-in at the neighborhood's Immaculate Conception Church that police eventually broke up with arrests.

    The opponents took their case to the Michigan Supreme Court, which, in 1981, decided to back the GM project. The court said that taking property from one private owner to give to another private owner in
    the name of economic development was an acceptable use of eminent domain.

    The closure of the plant some 37 years after the Poletown condemnations were upheld in court doesn't by itself prove that the takings were unjustified. We cannot expect any factory to remain open forever – and indeed keeping unprofitable facilities open actually damages the economy in the long run. What does undermine the “economic development” rationale for the Poletown condemnations is that the use of eminent domain destroyed far more value than it created. As I described in a 2004 article about the Poletown case and its aftermath, the new factory never created anything close to the 6000 jobs promised by GM and city officials. On the other hand, an enormous amount of harm was caused by the displacement of 4000 people, and the destruction of numerous homes, businesses, churches, and schools. In addition, local, state, and federal governments spent some $250 million in public funds on the project (GM paid only $8 million to acquire the land). That money could have been better spent elsewhere. Poletown and other similar cases demonstrate that the use of eminent domain to forcibly displace people for private development projects is both unjust and likely to harm local economies more than it benefits them.
    Well, at least now the government can step in again. This time building affordable housing, with maybe some light rail to Detroit, etc...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people...



    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


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  21. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Well, at least now the government can step in again. This time building affordable housing, with maybe some light rail to Detroit, etc...
    And the ghosts of Poletown may rise to haunt GM and michigan govt for eternity . Excellent
    Do something Danke

  22. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's still ridiculous to blame him for this.

    And several car companies are looking at building new plants here.
    Presidents do get too much credit and blame for what goes on in the economy. Trump does like to take credit for any good news and blames somebody else for bad news. Stocks up? His amazing economic policies. Stocks down? That darned Fed and their interest rates.

    He will be too busy working for us to even leave the White House. He won't have any time to play golf or anything.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  23. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's still ridiculous to blame him for this.

    And several car companies are looking at building new plants here.
    He's the one who made the claim. How is it ridiculous to hold him to it?
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  24. #141
    The average age of the S&P 500 is 18 years.

    After deregulation America churned through over 150 different airlines.

    Imagine how many car companies there should be right now.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't even a thing nor are capital gains taxes
    Constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  25. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    The average age of the S&P 500 is 18 years.

    After deregulation America churned through over 150 different airlines.

    Imagine how many car companies there should be right now.
    How many is that and why? Fewer? More?
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 12-02-2018 at 05:26 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  26. #143
    I guess it is fair to speculate if govt involvement and union involvement was minimal in the auto industry there would be more american auto makers than presently
    Do something Danke

  27. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    The average age of the S&P 500 is 18 years.

    After deregulation America churned through over 150 different airlines.

    Imagine how many car companies there should be right now.
    I like Bezos take:


    At an all-hands meeting last Thursday in Seattle, an employee asked Bezos about Amazon's future. Specifically, the questioner wanted to know what lessons Bezos has learned from the recent bankruptcies of Sears and other big retailers.

    "Amazon is not too big to fail," Bezos said, in a recording of the meeting that CNBC has heard. "In fact, I predict one day Amazon will fail. Amazon will go bankrupt. If you look at large companies, their lifespans tend to be 30-plus years, not a hundred-plus years."

    Experts discuss Amazon HQ2, interest rates at NYU's Capital Markets in Real Estate conference
    The key to prolonging that demise, Bezos continued, is for the company to "obsess over customers" and to avoid looking inward, worrying about itself.

    "If we start to focus on ourselves, instead of focusing on our customers, that will be the beginning of the end," he said. "We have to try and delay that day for as long as possible."



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  29. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    How many is that and why? Fewer? More?
    Dunno how many there would be presently, but none of them would be more than 30 years old, except for maybe one stalwart. Healthy capitalism is permanent revolution.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't even a thing nor are capital gains taxes
    Constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  30. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    Dunno how many there would be presently, but none of them would be more than 30 years old, except for maybe one stalwart. Healthy capitalism is permanent revolution.
    But who will build the cars?!?!
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  31. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    Dunno how many there would be presently, but none of them would be more than 30 years old, except for maybe one stalwart. Healthy capitalism is permanent revolution.
    I think comparing car makers to airlines is a bit off, since airlines don't build the planes they operate. They just throw their paint jobs on them, hence why it's easy to cycle airline companies in and out.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

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