GM To Cut 14,700 Jobs And Close Plants In North America

[angelatc]

I don't disagree about the market changes and what you said about the CAFE standards. But the tariffs are hugely disruptive and impact the most profitable vehicles. Then there's the uncertainty surrounding them too. Perhaps they'll get worse depending on how the President is feeling on a particular day.

I feel like I'm in bizzaro world seeing tariffs defended on Ron Paul Forums.

Nobody here except Zippy supports tariffs over free trade. But some of us do support tariffs in pursuit of fair trade. The real issue I see is that it’s lazy to blame tariffs alone as 95% of libertarians / liberals here appear content to do. It’s as if they’ve turned their backs on market theory, when in reality a storm of events have created this scenario AGAIN. Let's go back to basics, and we will find that they have a long sad history of quality problems. Their crap should have been ended in the '80's.

I forgot - yo live here. So you undoubtedly know union workers who own multiple houses, drive brand new cars, and haven't worked a day in the past 10 years. This is not and was not ever sustainable.

[fisharmor]

But in all fairness, human drivers are far from perfect. I am reminded of that in spades every time it snows just a little.

And they make accidents. And I can forgive a person who is taking responsibility for his actions for an accident.
I will not forgive someone who voluntarily shirks that responsibility to be able to play candy crush while his car kills my kin.

[Zippyjuan]

Nobody here except Zippy supports tariffs over free trade. But some of us do support tariffs in pursuit of fair trade. The real issue I see is that it’s lazy to blame tariffs alone as 95% of libertarians / liberals here appear content to do. It’s as if they’ve turned their backs on market theory, when in reality a storm of events have created this scenario AGAIN. Let's go back to basics, and we will find that they have a long sad history of quality problems. Their crap should have been ended in the '80's.

I forgot - yo live here. So you undoubtedly know union workers who own multiple houses, drive brand new cars, and haven't worked a day in the past 10 years. This is not and was not ever sustainable.

I have been arguing AGAINST tariffs since they were first suggested by Trump because they are against free trade.

[Zippyjuan]

This isn't denate - this is trolling. Please answer my question - why are you allowed to post here? Someone told me that you hold an ownership stake here. Is that true?

Don't believe everything you hear on the internet. Ask Brian if you are concerned.

[Influenza]

Nobody here except Zippy supports tariffs over free trade. But some of us do support tariffs in pursuit of fair trade. The real issue I see is that it’s lazy to blame tariffs alone as 95% of libertarians / liberals here appear content to do. It’s as if they’ve turned their backs on market theory, when in reality a storm of events have created this scenario AGAIN. Let's go back to basics, and we will find that they have a long sad history of quality problems. Their crap should have been ended in the '80's.

i bet you also want to bomb some countries in pursuit of peace

[angelatc]

Don't believe everything you hear on the internet. Ask Brian if you are concerned.

I did. He didn't answer me, which is actually what me believe it might be true.

[Zippyjuan]

I did. He didn't answer me, which is actually what me believe it might be true.

No, I do not own anything related in any way to this website. However, I do own the computer I use when I am on the website.

[angelatc]

i bet you also want to bomb some countries in pursuit of peace

What a well, thought out rebuttal.

I just want everyone to know that our little angry liberal TDS friend here gave me a negative for saying that tariffs were not the only reason for the downsizing in the auto employment sector, and then followed it up with a personal attack involving a position that everybody knows I don't hold.

Son, simmer down.

[angelatc]

And they make accidents. And I can forgive a person who is taking responsibility for his actions for an accident.
I will not forgive someone who voluntarily shirks that responsibility to be able to play candy crush while his car kills my kin.

I'd just like to be able to drive at night again.

[Influenza]

What a well, thought out rebuttal.

I just want everyone to know that our little angry liberal TDS friend here gave me a negative for saying that tariffs were not the only reason for the downsizing in the auto employment sector, and then followed it up with a personal attack involving a position that everybody knows I don't hold.

Son, simmer down.

yo dumb bitch, I gave you the -rep for saying that you wished you could murder jehovah's witnesses who trespassed on your property as if you were an island savage.

I know you don't hold that position, I'm saying your argument in favor of tariffs and stated goal is dumb as $#@! and anyone with half a brain can see that

[angelatc]

yo dumb bitch, I gave you the -rep for saying that you wished you could murder jehovah's witnesses who trespassed on your property as if you were an island savage.

I know you don't hold that position, I'm saying your argument in favor of tariffs and stated goal is dumb as $#@! and anyone with half a brain can see that

Someone is clearly off his meds today.. I am backing away, slowly.

[brushfire]

Currency debasing in order to maintain a trade advantage is only subsidizing the consumer of the country your trading with.



Tariffs and the protectionists that impose them, have been historically proven to cause more damage than good. The consumer never benefits from the tariff, its the producer - its subsidizing American business. It is remarkable to me, as to how many RPF'rs are supportive of tariffs. Can Brian change the domain to "this_was_ronpaulforums.com"?

[angelatc]

Currency debasing in order to maintain a trade advantage is only subsidizing the consumer of the country your trading with.


Tariffs and the protectionists that impose them, have been proven to be far more damaging. The consumer never benefits from the tariff, its the producer - its subsidizing business. It is remarkable to me, as to how many RPF'rs are supportive of tariffs. Can Brian change the domain to "this_was_ronpaulforums.com"?

Ron Paul is not entirely against import tariffs though. He often points out that before the income tax came along, it's how we paid for federal things.

[enhanced_deficit]

Senator blames Trump policies for GM plants shutdown

[Influenza]

Someone is clearly off his meds today.. I am backing away, slowly.

you could use some meds as well
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...t/drc-20353934

[angelatc]

you could use some meds as well
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...t/drc-20353934

But according to the link, there are no meds for the condition you've just diagnosed me with. Quite the conundrum.

[angelatc]

Senator blames Trump policies for GM plants shutdown

He's a Democrat.

[Influenza]

But according to the link, there are no meds for the condition you've diagnosed me with.

cyanide tablet?

[brushfire]

Ron Paul is not entirely against import tariffs though. He often points out that before the income tax came along, it's how we paid for federal things.

In the proper context of federal income tax vs tariffs - yes. But as a sole means of managing so called trade imbalances, I think thats a different story. Dr Paul also points out that the government must be shrunk to a size where it can be maintained by income through port fees and trade tariffs.
We already have the income tax and inflation tax. Giving the government tariff's to raise the price on consumer goods is going to have a serious impact on the economy. Cheap chinese sh!t has been the only counter to the fed imposed inflation. So while it seems grand that US manufacturing will be getting a "level playing field", the consumer will not be able to afford to purchase these goods.

As I've said before, lower corporate and personal income tax will have a much greater (positive) impact on the economy than imposing tariffs. When a company has less of a tax burden, they dont have to run such high margins, and they can better compete with foreign completion. When the consumer has more money to spend, they can afford a higher quality alternative to cheap chinese sh!t.

[angelatc]

cyanide tablet?

Yeah, that sounds totally sane, dude.

[angelatc]

In the proper context of federal income tax vs tariffs - yes. But as a sole means of managing so called trade imbalances, I think thats a different story. Dr Paul also points out that the government must be shrunk to a size where it can be maintained by income through port fees and trade tariffs.
We already have the income tax and inflation tax. Giving the government tariff's to raise the price on consumer goods is going to have a serious impact on the economy. Cheap chinese sh!t has been the only counter to the fed imposed inflation. So while it seems grand that US manufacturing will be getting a "level playing field", the consumer will not be able to afford to purchase these goods.

As I've said before, lower corporate and personal income tax will have a much greater (positive) impact on the economy than imposing tariffs. When a company has less of a tax burden, they dont have to run such high margins, and they can better compete with foreign completion. When the consumer has more money to spend, they can afford a higher quality alternative to cheap chinese sh!t.

Of course. But this brings me back to my point, which is that this isn't the only policy that led to the current scenario. They've been bailed out, subsidized, protected, bailed out again, and protected again. All while lobbying for legislation that creates enormous entry barriers to the market.

[brushfire]

Of course. But this brings me back to my point, which is that this isn't the only policy that led to the current scenario. They've been bailed out, subsidized, protected, bailed out again, and protected again. All while lobbying for legislation that creates enormous entry barriers to the market.

Yes - there's so many failures - the only way out is through the die-off of the federal government. It has to shrink to a manageable size, but like any other malignant tumor, it will not fix itself. It seems like it will have to rupture before we can move on.

So are you and I in agreement on this Tariff thing? Is it a bad idea? While we've taken so many steps in so many wrong directions, I don't see an argument favoring tariffs as a step in the right direction. The government has never been short of revenue or market control - I think its the size that is the problem. Nothing is going to fix this problem without cutting out the malignancy, or letting it rupture on its own.

[acptulsa]

He's a Democrat.

So was Trump. There's quite a bit of evidence he still is.

Who cares what letter he wears next to his name? Either his argument holds water or it doesn't.

[Swordsmyth]

In the proper context of federal income tax vs tariffs - yes. But as a sole means of managing so called trade imbalances, I think thats a different story. Dr Paul also points out that the government must be shrunk to a size where it can be maintained by income through port fees and trade tariffs.
We already have the income tax and inflation tax. Giving the government tariff's to raise the price on consumer goods is going to have a serious impact on the economy. Cheap chinese sh!t has been the only counter to the fed imposed inflation. So while it seems grand that US manufacturing will be getting a "level playing field", the consumer will not be able to afford to purchase these goods.

As I've said before, lower corporate and personal income tax will have a much greater (positive) impact on the economy than imposing tariffs. When a company has less of a tax burden, they dont have to run such high margins, and they can better compete with foreign completion. When the consumer has more money to spend, they can afford a higher quality alternative to cheap chinese sh!t.

Cheap Chinese junk is how the American consumer is being sedated as their wealth is stolen and it is being used to reduce the entire country to a welfare ghetto dependent on the government and foreign enemies for their needs.

Government subsidization doesn't become magically good because it comes from a foreign government.

[angelatc]

Yes - there's so many failures - the only way out is through the die-off of the federal government. It has to shrink to a manageable size, but like any other malignant tumor, it will not fix itself. It seems like it will have to rupture before we can move on.

So are you and I in agreement on this Tariff thing? Is it a bad idea? While we've taken so many steps in so many wrong directions, I don't see an argument favoring tariffs as a step in the right direction. The government has never been short of revenue or market control - I think its the size that is the problem. Nothing is going to fix this problem without cutting out the malignancy, or letting it rupture on its own.

I think that when we tariffed incoming cars, Honda et al opened plants here. It was good for the working class.

[angelatc]

So was Trump. There's quite a bit of evidence he still is.

Who cares what letter he wears next to his name? Either his argument holds water or it doesn't.

I've already said that the position of simply assigning this one particular issue to the failures does not hold water.

[brushfire]

Cheap Chinese junk is how the American consumer is being sedated as their wealth is stolen and it is being used to reduce the entire country to a welfare ghetto dependent on the government and foreign enemies for their needs.

Government subsidization doesn't become magically good because it comes from a foreign government.

It is magically good when it comes from another government. Because their citizens are paying for our citizens - that should not be hard to grasp why it benefits US citizens.

Also, when you say "as their wealth is stolen", have you thought for a moment who the thief is? Who's taking your money? Why do we all reminisce about the 25 or 50 cent candy bar? Why has individual income been flat for decades - because of china? LOL - no, its the democrats, right? We need only give our benevolent republican representatives time - they'll fix this for us - help us fight the evil chinese.

[brushfire]

I think that when we tariffed incoming cars, Honda et al opened plants here. It was good for the working class.

The visible benefit - any idea as to the cost? Check out that uncle Milt video I posted. You may not agree with the guy, but he makes some good points to ponder.

[Swordsmyth]

It is magically good when it comes from another government. Because their citizens are paying for our citizens - that should not be hard to grasp why it benefits US citizens.

Just as ghetto trash are benefited by welfare, only we as libertarians are supposed to understand that welfare destroys the ghetto and reduces the inhabitants to serfs dependent on the government for their needs.

Also, when you say "as their wealth is stolen", have you thought for a moment who the thief is? Who's taking your money? Why do we all reminisce about the 25 or 50 cent candy bar? Why has individual income been flat for decades - because of china? LOL - no, its the democrats, right? We need only give our benevolent republican representatives time - they'll fix this for us - help us fight the evil chinese.

Many of those who steal the wealth are domestic enemies and cheap subsidized Chinese junk is what they use to lull the public into accepting the theft until they are so poor and dependent that they can't fight back.

[brushfire]

Just as ghetto trash are benefited by welfare, only we as libertarians are supposed to understand that welfare destroys the ghetto and reduces the inhabitants to serfs dependent on the government for their needs.



Many of those who steal the wealth are domestic enemies and cheap subsidized Chinese junk is what they use to lull the public into accepting the theft until they are so poor and dependent that they can't fight back.

It wont be the first/last time you and I disagree - I promise that I wont hold it against you.

As a libertarian, I see nothing wrong with foreign governments subsidizing US customers through poor economic/trade policies. Also, as an unwilling contributor to foreign and corporate aid, I relish the idea of a foreign government sending me subsidies.

Ask the Mexican government how they feel about US amnesty and providing welfare to illegal aliens... I'm sure Nieto its just disgusted with Mexican citizens benefiting from our welfare. If we debased our currency to make our products cheaper, I'm sure they would be just as delighted.