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Thread: Trade Or Donít Trade

  1. #1

    Trade Or Donít Trade

    Nations do not trade, people do. Trade is not war, it is peace.

    When outsiders or governments impose tariffs, duties, sanctions, whether across the street or country lines, they are directly infringing on the rights of people to negotiate among themselves. It is also theft.

    The term ďTrade WarĒ is used by people who are not part of the trade ie; those in government seeking to profit from a product they did not make.

    Free Trade is voluntary. Fair Trade is forced.

    We do not need missiles or bloodshed or military bases to trade. To do so means fair trade, which equates to force, meaning lobbyists/outsiders are in bed with government at the two individuals expense.


    PAF



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  3. #2

  4. #3
    Agree with the missiles, bloodshed, or military bases bit. The rest of it is overly simplified.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Nations do not trade, people do. Trade is not war, it is peace.

    When outsiders or governments impose tariffs, duties, sanctions, whether across the street or country lines, they are directly infringing on the rights of people to negotiate among themselves. It is also theft.

    The term “Trade War” is used by people who are not part of the trade ie; those in government seeking to profit from a product they did not make.

    Free Trade is voluntary. Fair Trade is forced.

    We do not need missiles or bloodshed or military bases to trade. To do so means fair trade, which equates to force, meaning lobbyists/outsiders are in bed with government at the two individuals expense.


    PAF

    "You must spread some Reputation around..."
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Agree with the missiles, bloodshed, or military bases bit. The rest of it is overly simplified.
    ^^^THIS^^^
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    Agree with the missiles, bloodshed, or military bases bit. The rest of it is overly simplified.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    ^^^THIS^^^
    “republicans”, I see. Ah well, we all start somewhere.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    “republicans”, I see. Ah well, we all start somewhere.
    I tried being a libertarian but I got burnt out on the purity tests. Not much different than liberal behavior, where you step out of line and get dog-piled. Sorry if that ruffles some feathers but it's just what I've observed over the last decade, and frankly it's tiresome. I believe what I believe. Most of it aligns with Ron Paul's views. A dogmatic belief in "free trade" is one issue I couldn't come around on simply because I —speaking only for myself —got tired of feeling like a useful idiot for the globalists.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 11-22-2018 at 01:06 AM.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I tried being a libertarian but I got burnt out on the purity tests. Not much different than liberal behavior, where you step out of line and get dog-piled. Sorry if that ruffles some feathers but it's just what I've observed over the last decade, and frankly it's tiresome. I believe what I believe. Most of it aligns with Ron Paul's views. A dogmatic belief in "free trade" is one issue I couldn't come around on simply because I —speaking only for myself —got tired of feeling like a useful idiot for the globalists.
    Purists are so enthralled by the theory of free trade that they don't see that foreign government intervention is as bad or worse than domestic government intervention.

    Then there are the "cash register" libertarians who don't care about the moral, political or market implications of foreign government intervention as long as they save a buck.

    I recognize that my liberty is protected as much as it is by my country and that which hurts my country or my fellow Americans hurts me, I will not sell my birthright for a mess of pottage.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Aside from everything else you can no more have free trade and a regulatory state than you can have open borders and a welfare state.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Nations do not trade, people do. Trade is not war, it is peace.

    When outsiders or governments impose tariffs, duties, sanctions, whether across the street or country lines, they are directly infringing on the rights of people to negotiate among themselves. It is also theft.
    When you are trading with countries that use their citizens as slave labor, is that really voluntary? Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to advocate for any sanctions, I am aware of the harm that they can cause too. But the fact is that when there is exploitation involved it is not a win/win libertarian paradise situation for everyone.
    Last edited by William Tell; 11-22-2018 at 10:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    When you are trading with countries that use their citizens as slave labor, is that really voluntary? Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to advocate for any regula When outsiders or governments impose tariffs, duties, sanctions, whether across the street or country lines, they are directly infringing on the rights of people to negotiate among themselves. It is also theft.
    When you are trading with countries that use their citizens as slave labor, is that really voluntary? Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to advocate for any sanctions, I am aware of the harm that they can cause too. But the fact is that when there is exploitation involved it is not a win/win libertarian paradise situation for everyone.[/QUOTE]
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






    Posting from your phone sometimes makes you look like a bot. I hate that.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I missed out on the dick pills , they any good ?

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post


    Posting from your phone sometimes makes you look like a bot. I hate that.
    Today I'm a Turkeybot. Happy Thanksgiving!
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Today I'm a Turkeybot. Happy Thanksgiving!
    Back at you, I have to start the turkey trot pretty soon, we're hosting this year.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I missed out on the dick pills , they any good ?

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Back at you, I have to start the turkey trot pretty soon, we're hosting this year.
    Somehow I already knew that, I must be the NSA.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Back at you, I have to start the turkey trot pretty soon, we're hosting this year.
    Same. Everything here is GTG. All sides and desserts done. Turkey won't go in the oven for a bit longer. 4pm E.S.T. (Eat. Savory. Turkey.)

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Purists are so enthralled by the theory of free trade that they don't see that foreign government intervention is as bad or worse than domestic government intervention.

    Then there are the "cash register" libertarians who don't care about the moral, political or market implications of foreign government intervention as long as they save a buck.

    I recognize that my liberty is protected as much as it is by my country and that which hurts my country or my fellow Americans hurts me, I will not sell my birthright for a mess of pottage.

    regardless the economic occupation
    stem local or abroad;
    be it tax tarriff or ban;
    any purported "government" that intervenes in markets
    is a foreign state to free men otherwise peacefully contracting


    my liberty is solely protected by my willingness to exercise it

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...




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  20. #17
    Some [visitors] are aware of the difference, some are not.

    I posted this thread because of two reasons:

    1. USMCA (NAFTA 2.0) is being promoted as Free Trade, however it is clearly NOT.

    2. To resurrect/raise awareness about Objectivism, which I fully support:

    Last edited by PAF; 12-03-2018 at 11:09 AM.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    "You must spread some Reputation around..."
    Covered.
    There is no spoon.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    regardless the economic occupation
    stem local or abroad;
    be it tax tarriff or ban;
    any purported "government" that intervenes in markets
    is a foreign state to free men otherwise peacefully contracting


    my liberty is solely protected by my willingness to exercise it
    Exactly.

    And I'd + rep you again if I could.
    There is no spoon.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    “republicans”, I see. Ah well, we all start somewhere.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PAF again.
    Nailed it.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain



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