Looking for the first seasteaders

[Schifference]

exclusive economic zone (EEZ) - the UNCLOS (Part V) defines the EEZ as a zone beyond and adjacent to the territorial sea in which a coastal state has: sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring and exploiting, conserving and managing the natural resources, whether living or non-living, of the waters superjacent to the seabed and of the seabed and its subsoil, and with regard to other activities for the economic exploitation and exploration of the zone, such as the production of energy from the water, currents, and winds; jurisdiction with regard to the establishment and use of artificial islands, installations, and structures; marine scientific research; the protection and preservation of the marine environment; the outer limit of the exclusive economic zone shall not exceed 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.


Would a seastead built onto the ground 12 NM from shore be a violation of this?

[Anti Federalist]

Just to share what the law of the sea is and what distances it covers: https://www.indexmundi.com/thailand/...me_claims.html

The seastead seems to lie in the contiguous zone.

This is correct.

Keep in mind that even beyond 200NM you still must comply with IMO/SOLAS/Flag State/Class Society rules, regulations, fatwas, codes, mandates and edicts.

And they are voluminous in number.

[Anti Federalist]

exclusive economic zone (EEZ) - the UNCLOS (Part V) defines the EEZ as a zone beyond and adjacent to the territorial sea in which a coastal state has: sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring and exploiting, conserving and managing the natural resources, whether living or non-living, of the waters superjacent to the seabed and of the seabed and its subsoil, and with regard to other activities for the economic exploitation and exploration of the zone, such as the production of energy from the water, currents, and winds; jurisdiction with regard to the establishment and use of artificial islands, installations, and structures; marine scientific research; the protection and preservation of the marine environment; the outer limit of the exclusive economic zone shall not exceed 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.


Would a seastead built onto the ground 12 NM from shore be a violation of this?

Yes.

The EEZ defines sub sea and sea floor as being under the same jurisdiction.

You must have government permission to install a spar, platform, TLP or any other sub sea connected unit.

[Schifference]

Yes.

The EEZ defines sub sea and sea floor as being under the same jurisdiction.

You must have government permission to install a spar, platform, TLP or any other sub sea connected unit.

Is that rig tied to the floor? Is this their violation?

[ATruepatriot]

I think the problem with that is you would need to be affiliated with a country. I don't think you can buy a 50 foot ship and put it in the water without registering it someplace.

Unfortunately I am sure you are right. But maybe with a friendly advantageous affiliation choice? I don't know what it would be though.

[timosman]

I think the problem with that is you would need to be affiliated with a country. I don't think you can buy a 50 foot ship and put it in the water without registering it someplace.

Flag of Convenience - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience

[ATruepatriot]

Flag of Convenience - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience

Lol... I was off digging too. Some suggested the Cayman islands or the Cook islands. But flagging is not limited to just countries with access to the sea so there may be even more options with this fact.

[Swordsmyth]

I generally agree with you... but we don't have to be violent to gain freedoms. Many freedoms can indeed be won back through the political system. It may eventually come down to violence at some point, but right now, putting in the time and effort through the political system can change a lot of things.

It also sets the stage for violence if it ever becomes necessary, you have to build up a movement before anyone will even consider rebelling.

[Anti Federalist]

Flag of Convenience - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience

From the seasteading standpoint, there is little to no regulatory relief from registering with an FOC state.

All are signatories to the IMO, which means compliance with UN/IMO/ILO/SOLAS regulations.

[Anti Federalist]

Is that rig tied to the floor? Is this their violation?

In this case, yes.

[Schifference]

In this case, yes.

So basically they misinterpreted the rules. They need to be over 200 NM out. Not very practical.

[Anti Federalist]

I think the problem with that is you would need to be affiliated with a country. I don't think you can buy a 50 foot ship and put it in the water without registering it someplace.

Yes, this.

Now, if it is in fact a vessel, which this spar platform does not seem to be, IF you stay under 300 GT ITC (Gross Tons Inter. Tonnage Conv.) and DO NOT carry passengers or cargo "for hire", you can avoid a great deal of regulations and government oversight.

Sailboaters have been doing this for decades.

You still must comply with customs/waste discharge rules/visas/work permits/general navigation/safety rules regardless of size or commerce.

Once you exceed 300 GT or passengers/cargo for hire then you become subject to a whole new slew of rules.

Permanently anchoring a "spar" structure, without permission and without IMO/SOLAS compliance, would most certainly arouse the attention of the maritime "authorities" in any nation anywhere in the world.

[Schifference]

Yes, this.

Now, if it is in fact a vessel, which this spar platform does not seem to be, IF you stay under 300 GT ITC (Gross Tons Inter. Tonnage Conv.) and DO NOT carry passengers or cargo "for hire", you can avoid a great deal of regulations and government oversight.

Sailboaters have been doing this for decades.

You still must comply with customs/waste discharge rules/visas/work permits/general navigation/safety rules regardless of size or commerce.

Once you exceed 300 GT or passengers/cargo for hire then you become subject to a whole new slew of rules.

Permanently anchoring a "spar" structure, without permission and without IMO/SOLAS compliance, would most certainly arouse the attention of the maritime "authorities" in any nation anywhere in the world.

I would think you would be beholding to the shore for any and all supplies. I would imagine if you sold a cracker or cup of lemonade for any profit or any reason, you would then be interfering in their commerce. Probably cannot even barter/trade with other seasteaders. Probably cannot even pick up items for someone else.

[Anti Federalist]

So basically they misinterpreted the rules. They need to be over 200 NM out. Not very practical.

Not even 200NM would work.

If you permanently anchored a spar structure outside of 200NM, assuming you could afford to build one seaworthy enough, and did not flag it, or comply with the mountain of regulations I keep referring to, you might be able to live onboard for a while.

But you will be blacklisted by every IMO signatory nation, no port state control will allow you entrance to their waters, ever, for service, for storm shelter, for supplies, for access to an airport, or medical facilities or what have you.

And you will stick out like a turd in a punch bowl...you'll have a huge "bull's eye" right on your head, attracting the attention of every government agent within a thousand miles.

I appreciate the effort Elwar put into this, but as I said years ago when he first started "floating" this idea, your time and money and chance of success is much higher if you just marched off into the woods somewhere and set up an off grid homestead.

[dannno]

I wasn't around to be involved with this but I personally think being static in one location is a great disadvantage. Think I would have bought a good sized very seaworthy boat and traveled the international waters around the world instead of being static like this.

They are just testing the waters, so to speak.. the goal is to have renewable energy, fruit and vegetable gardens, small communities, etc..

Maybe even small animal grazing, like chickens or something.

You could always have boats to travel on, but this is to establish permanency and independence.

[Anti Federalist]

I would think you would be beholding to the shore for any and all supplies. I would imagine if you sold a cracker or cup of lemonade for any profit or any reason, you would then be interfering in their commerce. Probably cannot even barter/trade with other seasteaders. Probably cannot even pick up items for someone else.

Yup, pretty much this.

I have been making my living on the sea my entire life. For over thirty five years, I have been earning my bread and butter this way.

The English commentator Samuel Johnson, who hated travel by ship, once wrote: "Going to sea is like going to prison, with the off chance of being drowned thrown into the bargain".

He has a point.

I left everything behind at 16 to go to sea, with the idea that it would come with freedom from all the nagging worries of shoreside life.

And I have watched, as that prison that Johnson saw, has come to be a reality.

The sea is the most heavily regulated, heavily monitored, heavily surveilled, heavily controlled of spaces on planet earth.

The globalists used it as "dry run".

Their control grid is coming to dry land as we speak.

[Zippyjuan]

Is that rig tied to the floor? Is this their violation?

It is floating but anchored so it is not a moving vessel.

[ATruepatriot]

They are just testing the waters, so to speak.. the goal is to have renewable energy, fruit and vegetable gardens, small communities, etc..

Maybe even small animal grazing, like chickens or something.

You could always have boats to travel on, but this is to establish permanency and independence.

Thank you.

I kind of thought that might be the plan, to be their own country per say like the Liberland project. It would be quite a challenge from the start and what is happening now would be why. It's pretty hard get out from under somebodies thumb. It's all pretty much claimed or regulated.

Years ago I was in tight email contact with the Liberland crew when they got that started. They are still battling the powers that be on their project too.

https://liberland.org/en/

[ATruepatriot]

Yup, pretty much this.

I have been making my living on the sea my entire life. For over thirty five years, I have been earning my bread and butter this way.

The English commentator Samuel Johnson, who hated travel by ship, once wrote: "Going to sea is like going to prison, with the off chance of being drowned thrown into the bargain".

He has a point.

I left everything behind at 16 to go to sea, with the idea that it would come with freedom from all the nagging worries of shoreside life.

And I have watched, as that prison that Johnson saw, has come to be a reality.

The sea is the most heavily regulated, heavily monitored, heavily surveilled, heavily controlled of spaces on planet earth.

The globalists used it as "dry run".

Their control grid is coming to dry land as we speak.

I have an online brother from another forum who just sold his fishing boat and business for the same reason.

[Schifference]

Yup, pretty much this.

I have been making my living on the sea my entire life. For over thirty five years, I have been earning my bread and butter this way.

The English commentator Samuel Johnson, who hated travel by ship, once wrote: "Going to sea is like going to prison, with the off chance of being drowned thrown into the bargain".

He has a point.

I left everything behind at 16 to go to sea, with the idea that it would come with freedom from all the nagging worries of shoreside life.

And I have watched, as that prison that Johnson saw, has come to be a reality.

The sea is the most heavily regulated, heavily monitored, heavily surveilled, heavily controlled of spaces on planet earth.

The globalists used it as "dry run".

Their control grid is coming to dry land as we speak.

Obviously the sea has been your business. I only implemented some of my own raw logic to the scenario. The first I saw of this concept was a year or so ago. I had expressed negative feelings toward the success. It appears that this was not a well thought out plan. I do however wish him the best of luck to get away from Thailand officials and to a safety haven where the threat of incarceration is not looming. I would not spend one penny fighting this. I would be happy to chalk it up to a bad experience and literally move on.

[ATruepatriot]

Obviously the sea has been your business. I only implemented some of my own raw logic to the scenario. The first I saw of this concept was a year or so ago. I had expressed negative feelings toward the success. It appears that this was not a well thought out plan. I do however wish him the best of luck to get away from Thailand officials and to a safety haven where the threat of incarceration is not looming. I would not spend one penny fighting this. I would be happy to chalk it up to a bad experience and literally move on.

Unfortunately without some heavy clout like a missile tube, It looks like it has run it's course.

[Schifference]

Unfortunately without some heavy clout like a missile tube, It looks like it has run it's course.

And people wonder why North Korea would want nuclear capabilities.

[ATruepatriot]

And people wonder why North Korea would want nuclear capabilities.

Anymore you have no negotiating power at all without some sort of big barrel to point. Too bad... But it's a reality.

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajCI5xjfPz0