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Thread: Looking for the first seasteaders

  1. #1

    Question Looking for the first seasteaders

    I have not really been publicizing this and we do not care to have this in the media but, in case I have missed anyone in my personal contacts on this...

    If you want to live on the world's first seastead (and have the means to do so) drop me a PM.

    Again, we have not been advertising this, we're not looking for investors (bitcoin has been kind to us). We're looking for neighbors. I would rather have liberty lovers as architects of how seasteading moves forward.

    <itshappening.gif>


    This is a completely separate from Blue Frontiers' project in French Polynesia.

    The general public is not our target audience on this (hence the reason we're not publicizing), they are the reason we are doing this.
    Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.



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  3. #2
    How about an artificial surf reef?
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  4. #3
    >contemplates bulk loads of Dramamine<
    Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,

    The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are out numbered by those who vote for a living !!!!!!!

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwar View Post
    If you want to live on the world's first seastead (and have the means to do so) drop me a PM.
    And what does that mean? What level of means?

    Quote Originally Posted by opal View Post
    >contemplates bulk loads of Dramamine<
    yeah, I'd have to leave DW in order to contemplate this for the same reason.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    And what does that mean? What level of means?


    yeah, I'd have to leave DW in order to contemplate this for the same reason.

    Well the reality is that no bank would ever give a loan to someone buying a home in a place not governed by any country.

    So essentially you need to be able to buy a second home in cash.

    <insert playground for the rich here>

    However, most likely someone with that much money will see this as an investment opportunity and rent it out to people that can uproot their lives and live there.

    But for right now I'm looking for those initial buyers...information for the renters will come later.
    Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.

  7. #6
    No buying ability here. I can do structural engineering for the project if needed.

  8. #7
    I love the concept, the problem is that some government somewhere will eventually shut it down.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    I love the concept, the problem is that some government somewhere will eventually shut it down.
    ^^This^^



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  11. #9
    Just curious.. what is the average water temperature where this is planned?
    Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,

    The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are out numbered by those who vote for a living !!!!!!!

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    I love the concept, the problem is that some government somewhere will eventually shut it down.
    While we will not be 200nm out where we're completely free from all government control, we will be at least 12nm out which gives a great deal of sovereignty. If a government tries to shut it down they would be violating international laws. Which is certainly possible. But we are coordinating with the local government and can move to a few nearby countries if they show that they want to violate the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by opal View Post
    Just curious.. what is the average water temperature where this is planned?
    Warm...steady average throughout the year around 80 degrees (near the surface).
    Last edited by Elwar; 11-21-2018 at 04:37 AM.
    Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwar View Post
    While we will not be 200nm out where we're completely free from all government control, we will be at least 12nm out which gives a great deal of sovereignty. If a government tries to shut it down they would be violating international laws. Which is certainly possible. But we are coordinating with the local government and can move to a few nearby countries if they show that they want to violate the law.
    Allow open use or trade of drugs? Expect to be shut down. Allow open prostitution? Expect to be shut down. Refuse to cooperate with other governments to rat out "tax cheats"? You'll be labeled a tax haven and be shut down. Governments don't like freedom.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Allow open use or trade of drugs? Expect to be shut down. Allow open prostitution? Expect to be shut down. Refuse to cooperate with other governments to rat out "tax cheats"? You'll be labeled a tax haven and be shut down. Governments don't like freedom.
    Most people don't like freedom. They just like the slogans and words in songs.

    This project is not for those people.
    Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwar View Post
    While we will not be 200nm out where we're completely free from all government control, we will be at least 12nm out which gives a great deal of sovereignty. If a government tries to shut it down they would be violating international laws. Which is certainly possible. But we are coordinating with the local government and can move to a few nearby countries if they show that they want to violate the law.
    Who's your flag state? No government that I know of will issue COIs and all the other 100 or so flag state compliance documents without a port or registry and compliance audits

    Who's your documenting authority? Same thing here.

    Who's your class society? ABS? DNV? Who issues your SMS certificates and compliance audits, which you need for any vessel large enough to house more than six passengers?

    What nation in the world that has sea access and a vessel registry that is not a signatory to IMO - SOLAS - STCW - MARPOL? Compliance with just those conventions alone requires a roomful of lawyers and a truckload of paper and has many restrictions.

    Sorry to be a Gloomy Gus here but these seasteading ideas are lunacy.

    You think you are under surveillance and your freedoms restricted and you are constantly hamstrung by pettifogging government leeches and mounds of compliance paperwork on land?

    It is ten times worse at sea, on any vessel outside of a small private pleasure craft of less than 100 feet and carrying less than six passengers.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 11-22-2018 at 11:59 AM.

  16. #14
    Makes me think of Rapture in Bioshock.


  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Who's your flag state?
    Didn't even think about that.

    If a vessel is unflagged then they essentially have zero rights from my understanding.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  18. #16

    Lightbulb

    "To me, one of the more interesting assertions made by Randy Henrickson in his CIMSEC interview was this: “To avoid legally being a pirate, seasteads will have to flag themselves with the flag of an existing nation and partner up. As seasteading matures and grows, we foresee seasteads eventually breaking off when they have enough of their own economic power and population to no longer need to be binded to existing governments, when they’re at a point where they can be recognized by others as a micro-nation.”



    There are a couple of interesting elements here: first, the notion that activities which are legal and even encouraged when done under the aegis of a flag might be considered illegal if done without such protection (although, depending on the specific activities Henrickson contemplates, piracy might not be the specific crime); second why would a nation be willing to “spin-off” an economically fruitful “micro-nation” whether at sea or on land?


    This second question underscores the ambition of the seasteading project. Up to this point in human history, every time a new nation-state has emerged, it has been tied with a specific piece of territory. And, unfortunately, most newly sovereign states have experienced some degree of violence in achieving their independence. Whether independence was achieved by revolution, decolonization, or partition, a greater or lesser degree of political violence has frequently accompanied it, either before or shortly after independence. Partly, this stems from the physical, historical, and emotional attachment that human beings have to territory. Partly it stems from the challenges of identity in forming both a nation and a state.[1] But it also stems from the economic benefit that the larger nation derives from activity within the smaller territory. To suppose that a flag state would willingly give up the economic benefit they derive from a productive seastead may be a bit optimistic."



    Read the rest here:

    http://cimsec.org/sea-based-nations-...ion-state/2484
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Who's your flag state? No government that I know of will issue COIs and all the other 100 or so flag state compliance documents without a port or registry and compliance audits

    Who's your documenting authority? Same thing here.

    Who's your class society? ABS? DNV? Who issues your SMS certificates and compliance audits, which you need for any vessel large enough to house more than six passengers?

    What nation in the world that has sea access and a vessel registry that is not a signatory to IMO - SOLAS - STCW - MARPOL? Compliance with just those conventions alone requires a roomful of lawyers and a truckload of paper and has many restrictions.

    Sorry to be a Gloomy Gus here but these seasteading ideas are lunacy.

    You think you are under surveillance and your freedoms restricted and you are constantly hamstrung by pettifogging government leeches and mounds of compliance paperwork on land?

    It is ten times worse at sea, on any vessel outside of a small private pleasure craft of less than 100 feet and carrying less than six passengers.
    They will be flagged. Each one will be considered a boat (motor, moving, etc.). They will have the same regulations that a small sailboat sitting in middle of the ocean has.

    Not to get too far into it but, this is not a seasteading project like the media or glossy pictures portray (big city states where cruise ships pull up, etc.).

    I will go into more detail after we have launched the first one (very soon). There have been too many seasteading projects that are nothing but talk but never build anything. This project is about very little talk and actually building.
    Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwar View Post
    They will be flagged. Each one will be considered a boat (motor, moving, etc.). They will have the same regulations that a small sailboat sitting in middle of the ocean has.

    Not to get too far into it but, this is not a seasteading project like the media or glossy pictures portray (big city states where cruise ships pull up, etc.).

    I will go into more detail after we have launched the first one (very soon). There have been too many seasteading projects that are nothing but talk but never build anything. This project is about very little talk and actually building.
    Well, then it might work, at that.

    Best of luck with it, let us know how it works out.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Well, then it might work, at that.

    Best of luck with it, let us know how it works out.
    Governments that have more guns will always have the final word. But yes, lawyers (and more importantly, someone high up in government acknowledging that they will follow the law) are a necessity.
    Definition of political insanity: Voting for the same people expecting different results.

  23. #20

  24. #21
    Thailand is looking for them- accusing them of violating their territory.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...82#post6784282

    https://coinspice.io/news/seasteader...es-legal-help/

    Seasteaders Bitcoin Girl Thailand and Chad Elwartowski Plead for Lives, Legal Help

    “*PLEASE SHARE THIS POST OUR LIVES DEPEND ON IT*” came the plea from Elwartowski a day ago. “Nadia and I did not design, construct or pay to have the seastead constructed,” he was careful to distinguish in his post. Nadia is Nadia Supranee Thepdet or Bitcoin Girl Thailand, and she’s reasonably well known in both crypto circles and seasteading for her marketing prowess. She’s also Elwartowski’s girlfriend.

    As CoinSpice documented, the two are now formally accused of violating Thailand sovereignty by the country’s military, if local reporting is to be believed. However, the seasteaders are denying what seem to be criminal complaint’s crux. “We promoted it and lived on it. We helped out by giving the builder updates and we participated in the launch. We did not decide where to put the seastead. We are enthusiastic supporters of the project who were lucky enough to be the first ones to stay on it,” Elwartowski stressed.

    In early March, the two launched what is thought to be the first successful iteration of the seasteading concept, essentially carving out a spot within international waters and claiming a slice of relative freedom. Their initial struggle to get the project up and running was turned into a YouTube series full of hope and optimism. There was even talk of expanding the concept and selling similar plots to build a small community off the coast of Phuket. All of it appears to be on hold or worse.

    Hunting Us Down to Our Death is Just Plain Stupid

    “Hunting us down to our death is just plain stupid,” Elwartowski explained, “and highlights exactly the reason someone would be willing to go out in middle of the ocean to get away from governments. We never had any ill intentions and I even state plainly several times that I would not want to be a citizen of any seastead nation that would have me. We were hoping to bring tourism to Phuket with an underwater restaurant, floating hotels and medical research, tech jobs, etc. We had 3 wealthy entrepreneurs in the past week tell us they were coming to live in Phuket because they were excited about the project. We love Thailand.”

    He then called for formal legal help from anyone who could assist, including speaking with military leaders in the country. “I need to be able to go to the US embassy in Bangkok or some place near Phuket to get me out of the country,” he urged. “I need ideas for helping Nadia, a Thai citizen. She needs an embassy in Bangkok where she can seek asylum.

    Nadia is just my girlfriend. She played no role in planning anything with the seastead. She just took video and stayed on the seastead with me.”

    CoinSpice reached out the couple, asking about their current status. “Still alive,” came the terse response early morning 16 April 2019. There are conflicting reports about whether the seastead itself has been overtaken and sunk by the military. “Whether it is still there or not does not matter much to me. I’m more concerned about Nadia being driven from her home country and her family. Her son is worried. I hope they can be reunited someday soon,” Elwartowski lamented. “We just wanted to be free. If just for one day.”

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    I love the concept, the problem is that some government somewhere will eventually shut it down.
    Prophetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Well, then it might work, at that.

    Best of luck with it, let us know how it works out.
    Seems that there has been a set-back. Hopefully that’s all that it is.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Prophetic.
    Not really, just an understanding of history, governments, and human nature.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  27. #24
    “Hunting us down to our death is just plain stupid,” Elwartowski explained, “and highlights exactly the reason someone would be willing to go out in middle of the ocean to get away from governments."
    Not to government it isn't.

    “We just wanted to be free. If just for one day.”
    And you just answered why.

    Sorry it's turning out this way, but we tried to warn you.

    The only freedom you have is whatever freedom you are willing kill and die for.

    Walking away is not permitted.

    Or at least not permitted until someone figures out how to teleport themselves off this rock.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11



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  29. #25
    I feel bad for the guy...Wis there was more I could do to help.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The only freedom you have is whatever freedom you are willing kill and die for.

    Walking away is not permitted.
    I generally agree with you... but we don't have to be violent to gain freedoms. Many freedoms can indeed be won back through the political system. It may eventually come down to violence at some point, but right now, putting in the time and effort through the political system can change a lot of things.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  31. #27
    Seems like the latest news.

    Elwartowski and Ocean Builders say the spar was in international waters and beyond Thailand's jurisdiction. Thai authorities say the structure is in its 200-mile exclusive economic zone and therefore a violation of its sovereignty.
    ...
    The U.S. Embassy in Bangkok told Reuters that Elwartowski had engaged a lawyer and was being provided with appropriate assistance.
    ...
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/b...-cabin-n996666
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  32. #28
    Just to share what the law of the sea is and what distances it covers: https://www.indexmundi.com/thailand/...me_claims.html

    The seastead seems to lie in the contiguous zone.

    Maritime claims: territorial sea: 12 nm
    exclusive economic zone: 200 nm
    continental shelf: 200-m depth or to the depth of exploitation


    Definition: This entry includes the following claims, the definitions of which are excerpted from the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), which alone contains the full and definitive descriptions:

    territorial sea - the sovereignty of a coastal state extends beyond its land territory and internal waters to an adjacent belt of sea, described as the territorial sea in the UNCLOS (Part II); this sovereignty extends to the air space over the territorial sea as well as its underlying seabed and subsoil; every state has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up to a limit not exceeding 12 nautical miles; the normal baseline for measuring the breadth of the territorial sea is the mean low-water line along the coast as marked on large-scale charts officially recognized by the coastal state; where the coasts of two states are opposite or adjacent to each other, neither state is entitled to extend its territorial sea beyond the median line, every point of which is equidistant from the nearest points on the baseline from which the territorial seas of both states are measured; the UNCLOS describes specific rules for archipelagic states.

    contiguous zone - according to the UNCLOS (Article 33), this is a zone contiguous to a coastal state's territorial sea, over which it may exercise the control necessary to: prevent infringement of its customs, fiscal, immigration, or sanitary laws and regulations within its territory or territorial sea; punish infringement of the above laws and regulations committed within its territory or territorial sea; the contiguous zone may not extend beyond 24 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured (e.g., the US has claimed a 12-nautical mile contiguous zone in addition to its 12-nautical mile territorial sea); where the coasts of two states are opposite or adjacent to each other, neither state is entitled to extend its contiguous zone beyond the median line, every point of which is equidistant from the nearest points on the baseline from which the contiguous zone of both states are measured.

    exclusive economic zone (EEZ) - the UNCLOS (Part V) defines the EEZ as a zone beyond and adjacent to the territorial sea in which a coastal state has: sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring and exploiting, conserving and managing the natural resources, whether living or non-living, of the waters superjacent to the seabed and of the seabed and its subsoil, and with regard to other activities for the economic exploitation and exploration of the zone, such as the production of energy from the water, currents, and winds; jurisdiction with regard to the establishment and use of artificial islands, installations, and structures; marine scientific research; the protection and preservation of the marine environment; the outer limit of the exclusive economic zone shall not exceed 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured.

    continental shelf - the UNCLOS (Article 76) defines the continental shelf of a coastal state as comprising the seabed and subsoil of the submarine areas that extend beyond its territorial sea throughout the natural prolongation of its land territory to the outer edge of the continental margin, or to a distance of 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured where the outer edge of the continental margin does not extend up to that distance; the continental margin comprises the submerged prolongation of the landmass of the coastal state, and consists of the seabed and subsoil of the shelf, the slope and the rise; wherever the continental margin extends beyond 200 nautical miles from the baseline, coastal states may extend their claim to a distance not to exceed 350 nautical miles from the baseline or 100 nautical miles from the 2,500-meter isobath, which is a line connecting points of 2,500 meters in depth; it does not include the deep ocean floor with its oceanic ridges or the subsoil thereof.

    exclusive fishing zone - while this term is not used in the UNCLOS, some states (e.g., the United Kingdom) have chosen not to claim an EEZ, but rather to claim jurisdiction over the living resources off their coast; in such cases, the term exclusive fishing zone is often used; the breadth of this zone is normally the same as the EEZ or 200 nautical miles.

  33. #29
    I wasn't around to be involved with this but I personally think being static in one location is a great disadvantage. Think I would have bought a good sized very seaworthy boat and traveled the international waters around the world instead of being static like this.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ATruepatriot View Post
    I wasn't around to be involved with this but I personally think being static in one location is a great disadvantage. Think I would have bought a good sized very seaworthy boat and traveled the international waters around the world instead of being static like this.
    I think the problem with that is you would need to be affiliated with a country. I don't think you can buy a 50 foot ship and put it in the water without registering it someplace.

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