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Thread: Denounce this babystep (Prison Reform starting)

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    /me: gnaws on own tongue to forestall a rant about Peter Jackson's portrayal of Denethor. And don't even get me started on how he ass-raped Faramir. I'm just glad Tolkien wasn't alive to witness Jackson's heinous crimes ...
    The only Tolkien book I read was The Hobbit, and to be honest, it was a mite of a chore. I guess I'm just not into that sort of thing, which may be the case due to the less-than-positive associations I hold with it due to Tim Ward, a friend from high school who proved an extremely unreliable business partner. He was and perhaps remains a LOTR loon, which I don't care one way or another. But when I showed up at his place on a Friday, ostensibly to do some important work for the business, only to find 30+ people there, none of whom were associated with said business, drinking, burning spliffs, and huffing long blow lines, something inside me twigged in a big way and the business ended about 60 minutes later. The only other time I saw Tim after that was at dad's funeral. I really liked Mr. Ward. Tim, not so much anymore as I have an upper limit on how much irresponsibility I will tolerate in anyone, and he rocketed right past the line that night.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.



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  3. #32
    Religious right to start pressure campaign around criminal justice reform
    The Faith and Freedom Coalition will ask members to flood Mitch McConnell and other Republicans with calls backing the Senate legislation.

    By LORRAINE WOELLERT
    11/22/2018

    Religious leaders buoyed by a successful alliance with the Trump administration are readying a pressure campaign with a new target: Senate conservatives who are blocking criminal justice reform.

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, backed by Republicans with evangelical ties such as Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, is blocking a Trump-approved plan to revamp the criminal justice system, the latest priority of religious groups after they focused much of their earlier efforts on stocking the courts with conservative judges.

    McConnell so far has resisted efforts to bring to the floor the bipartisan bill that would reduce maximum penalties for repeat offenders and give judges more discretion in handing down prison sentences, knowing it has already created deep divisions within the GOP caucus.

    But religious leaders — who have the weight of President Donald Trump behind them — are preparing to pressure McConnell and other senators, such as Cruz and David Perdue (R-Ga.), to change their minds.

    Starting next week, the Faith and Freedom Coalition will ask its 2 million members to flood Congress with letters and phone calls, said coalition Chairman Ralph Reed. Religious groups hope they can put enough pressure on Republicans with large evangelical constituencies to get a rare piece of major bipartisan legislation passed in a bitterly divided Congress.

    “They’ll be hearing from their constituents,” said Reed, who said he counts all three lawmakers as friends.

    ...
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...reform-1009543



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  5. #33
    Excellent.

    The article goes on to say the evangelicals plan to keep pushing for more reforms and also plan on contacting liberals sympathetic to prison reform.

    I will call and/or write my senators (Purdue) and reps.

    Should it be more? Yes but a First Step is a good thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  6. #34
    I'm really excited the government finally banned shackling pregnant womens legs shut.

    Great first step in prison reform.

    Was there anything else exciting in the bill?

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  7. #35
    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's reluctance to hold a vote on a popular criminal justice bill has angered top Republican senators and created an unusual rift with a longtime GOP ally, Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa. And on Friday, it also brought on a tweet from President Donald Trump."Hopefully Mitch McConnell will ask for a VOTE on Criminal Justice Reform," Trump tweeted. "It is extremely popular and has strong bipartisan support. It will also help a lot of people, save taxpayer dollars, and keep our communities safe. Go for it Mitch!"
    Minutes later Grassley tweeted that he and the president had spoken about "the growing support" for the legislation.
    "Pres Trump told me he wants it done THIS CONGRESS," Grassley tweeted.
    Grassley has spent years working to build a coalition around the bill and is pushing for a year-end vote. Grassley says more than two-thirds of the Senate supports it. But McConnell is refusing to bring the legislation forward in a standoff that's dividing the Republican majority and putting President Donald Trump on the spot.
    "We've done what needs to be done," Grassley said about the overwhelming support for the bill. "So what's holding it up?"
    For the 85-year-old chairman of the Judiciary Committee, this is not the way the Senate is supposed to operate. Grassley was expecting some deference from McConnell after delivering on Trump's judicial nominees — including two now on the Supreme Court. Despite Trump's support for the measure, McConnell says it's divisive. His reluctance to take up Grassley's priority shows the limits of the Senate's old-fashioned customs in an era of heightened partisan politics.
    "What's so irritating about this is, first of all, he and I have been hand-in-glove working to get the judiciary vacancies filled," Grassley told Iowa reporters.
    "I think I ought to have some consideration for delivering on tough Supreme Court nominees, and a lot of tough circuit court nominees and maybe even once in a while you get a tough district court nominee," Grassley went on.


    Trump has called senators about the bill and spoke briefly about it Friday at an event on safe neighborhoods in Kansas City.

    The bill is a project of Trump's son-in-law, White House adviser Jared Kushner, and would be the biggest sentencing overhaul in decades. It would reduce mandatory prison terms for certain drug crimes and give judges in some cases more discretion on punishments. It would allow about 2,600 federal prisoners sentenced for crack cocaine offenses before August 2010 the opportunity to petition for a reduced penalty. It also includes provisions to encourage education and workforce training in prisons.

    Roughly 90 percent of prison inmates are held in state facilities and would not be affected by the legislation.


    Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., said Thursday that bill backers are making a last-push to attach it to the spending measure and picking up new supporters. But he acknowledged the package's chances are slipping with each passing day. "We're still lobbying Sen. McConnell — he has all the power to allow it or not allow it," said Paul.
    McConnell and Grassley have worked side by side for decades. When then-President Barack Obama nominated Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court in early 2016, Grassley stood by McConnell's decision to keep the seat open during the election year for the new president to decide. He's ushered in 84 Trump judicial nominees, including a record number of circuit court judges.
    But their split over criminal justice reform is testing not just their partnership but also the longstanding norms of the Senate.

    "What's holding it up is our leader, the majority leader," Grassley said. "There's no reason it shouldn't come up."

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/mcconnell...-politics.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #36
    President Trump said Tuesday he believes the criminal justice reform bill will pass, after Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, under pressure, vowed to bring the legislation to the Senate floor for a vote as early as this week.

    McConnell, R-Ky., made the decision after more than three years of bipartisan congressional support for the policy that would overhaul the nation’s sentencing laws. The bill has been supported by a large group of lawmakers, including Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, and outgoing House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis.
    McConnell announced Tuesday that "at the request of the President and following improvements to the legislation that have been secured by several members, the Senate will take up the recently revised Criminal Justice bill" this work period. McConnell's office noted that the bill could be taken up "as early as the end of this week."
    "Members should now be prepared to work between Christmas and New Year's if necessary in order to complete our work," McConnell announced. Because the bill has been revised, the Senate would need to bounce it back to the House. In January, Democrats take back the majority in that chamber of Congress, while the Senate maintains a GOP hold.
    The president applauded McConnell's decision to move the bill to the floor. Trump first announced his support for the legislation last month.

    “We got word that Mitch McConnell, we’re putting up for a vote,” Trump told reporters in the Oval Office Tuesday. “Criminal Justice Reform is something people have been working on for many years. It looks like it is going to be passing in a bipartisan way.”

    More at: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...o-senate-floor
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
    Is this proof that not everything bipartisan is bad?

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    Is this proof that not everything bipartisan is bad?
    Just like not all swans are white.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    Is this proof that not everything bipartisan is bad?
    Too early to say, they have to pass the bill to see what's in it.
    "The Patriarch"

  12. #40
    The Senate advanced a White House-backed criminal justice reform bill on Monday, paving the way for senators to try to pass the bill as early as Tuesday.

    Senators voted 82-12 to end debate on the legislation, which merges a House-passed prison reform bill with a handful of changes to sentencing laws.
    Twelve Republicans voted against advancing the legislation despite President Trump endorsing the measure in November: GOP Sens. John Barrasso (Wyo.), Richard Burr (N.C.), Tom Cotton (Ark.), Mike Enzi (Wyo.), John Kennedy (La.), Jon Kyl (Ariz.), Lisa Murkowski (Alaska), Jim Risch (Idaho), Ben Sasse (Neb.), Dan Sullivan (Alaska), Mike Rounds (S.D.) and Pat Toomey (Pa.).


    The Senate is expected to vote on potential changes to the legislation as soon as Tuesday before taking a final vote on the bill.
    “There are a number of members with outstanding concerns that they feel are still unresolved. ... The Senate will be considering amendments before we vote on final passage later this week,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said ahead of the vote.
    Though supporters rolled out a final version of the bill last week to try to win over more GOP senators, conservatives, led by Cotton and Kennedy, are expected to get votes on three amendments.
    Cotton, in a National Review op-ed published Monday, said his potential changes would help "limit the damage" and conservatives who had already said they would support the bill "have jumped on the bandwagon too soon."
    "A number of serious felonies, including violent crimes, are still eligible for early release in the version of the bill the Senate will vote on in a matter of days. In short, the First Step Act flunks their basic test to protect public safety," Cotton wrote.
    He added in a separate tweet that opponents to his amendments were circulating false claims about his proposed changes.
    Cotton and Kennedy’s changes would including requiring that the victims or families of victims are notified when an individual is released. Another change would be to make publicly available rearrest data for those released, as well as information on prior offenses by those released and the crimes for which they were imprisoned.
    The Kennedy-Cotton amendments would also add approximately 10 offenses to a list that excludes someone from being eligible for the bill’s earned -time credits, which could be used to shorten sentences.
    Toomey said in a statement that he was still weighing supporting the bill but voted no on Monday because it will block senators from voting on an amendment that he wanted to offer.
    “The First Step Act contains worthwhile provisions that seek to improve the criminal justice system and reduce offender recidivism, which is why I am seriously considering supporting it. However, today’s procedural vote was designed to preclude amendments, including one I intended to offer to support victims of crime," Toomey said.
    The amendment votes are expected to be held with a simple majority threshold, meaning at least a few GOP senators would need to join with all Democrats to block them from getting added to the bill.
    Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), who helped craft the deal along with Sens. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) and Mike Lee (R-Utah), warned that as currently drafted that he believes Cotton's amendments are "poison pills" meant to undercut the legislation as a whole.
    "The amendments that he will propose tomorrow, the senator from Arkansas, have been opposed by groups across the board, left and right, conservative, progressive, Republican, Democrat, they all oppose his amendments. ...If he goes with the amendments we've seen, we're going to have to do our best to oppose him," Durbin said.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...ce-reform-bill
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  14. #41
    The Senate passed a sweeping criminal justice bill Tuesday that addresses concerns that the nation's war on drugs had led to the imprisonment of too many Americans for non-violent crimes without adequately preparing them for their return to society.Senate passage of the bill by a vote of 87-12 culminates years of negotiations and gives President Donald Trump a signature policy victory, with the outcome hailed by scores of conservative and liberal advocacy groups. The House is expected to pass the bill this week, sending it to the president's desk for his signature.
    The bill gives judges more discretion when sentencing some drug offenders and boosts prisoner rehabilitation efforts. It also reduces the life sentence for some drug offenders with three convictions, or "three strikes," to 25 years. Another provision would allow about 2,600 federal prisoners sentenced for crack cocaine offenses before August 2010 the opportunity to petition for a reduced penalty.
    "America is the greatest Country in the world and my job is to fight for ALL citizens, even those who have made mistakes," Trump tweeted moments after the vote.
    "This will keep our communities safer, and provide hope and a second chance, to those who earn it. In addition to everything else, billions of dollars will be saved. I look forward to signing this into law!" Trump added.
    The vote also thrilled Democrats. Sen. Cory Booker, D-N.J., said the nation's prisons are full of Americans who are struggling with mental illness and addiction, and who are overwhelmingly poor. He said the nation's criminal justice system "feeds on certain communities and not on others," and said the bill represents a step toward "healing" for those communities.
    "Let's make no mistake, this legislation, which is one small step, will affect thousands and thousands of lives," Booker said.

    The Senate turned back three amendments Tuesday from Republican senators Tom Cotton of Arkansas and John Kennedy of Louisiana, who said the bill endangered public safety. Supporters voiced concerns that passing any of the amendments would have sunk the bill.

    More at: https://news.yahoo.com/critics-crimi...-politics.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    To give credit where due, Congrats to Jared Kushner for his bold leadership on this issue to make it happen by bringing both parties together. He metioned his interest was due to personal experience, not sure what he meant but all is well that ends well.

    This could be the first step in the new age of MAGA bipartisanship to tackle tough issues like gun control, DACA, border, abortion, gay marriage, foreign interventions,Iran/Syria, exploding debt etc that could be resolved by two sides working hand in hand. Pelosi being on board with MAGA won't hurt either.


    MAGA Bi-Partisanship: Trump son-in-law Jared will be guide for the future
    Trump seizes on Jared Kushner’s bipartisan ‘road map’ for success
    November 15, 2018
    Top White House aide Jared Kushner’s quiet but successful bipartisan efforts to make deals on trade and justice issues have been seized on by President Trump as a blueprint for keeping his agenda alive on a divided Capitol Hill as he enters the 2020 re-election season.
    “It’s a good road map,” said a Trump insider, adding, “Jared’s is a guide for the future.”
    While others in the administration have used sharp elbows to get their way, Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, has mastered his own deal-making style that favors creating coalitions.
    Agreed. However, ALWAYS stand guard. While this a step in the right direction and desperately needed, we have been severely burnt before, with very hidden agendas. This is a place to discuss and debate and prepare for what's ahead.

    The info that I provided above stands on the record,,, for future reference.
    MAGA's award-winning son-in-law is his secret weapon in making great deals both at home and abroad. There were reports that 80% of prison population was african-american or hispanic and he has diplayed great compassion for all minorities.
    With careful navigation ahead, he might even be able to save GOP-Adelson wing from sinking if MAGA uses his son-in-law's compasionate leadership more aggressively in future instead of usual swamp players.
    It's somewhat ironic that he was not given American Freedom Medal because of this baby step before he received award from our neighbor.

    Mexico's President gives Jared Kushner their nation’s greatest award


  16. #43
    Congress approved a sweeping bipartisan criminal justice reform bill on Thursday, handing President Trump a major legislative victory on an issue championed by his White House.

    The House approved the bill 358-36, sending it to Trump's desk for his signature.

    More at: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hou...to-trumps-desk
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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