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Thread: A Democratic House means a more frugal government

  1. #1

    A Democratic House means a more frugal government

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...109-story.html

    More accurately, a divided Congress is usually a more frugal Congress. It isn't because Democrats control the purse- it is because neither has full control over spending.

    <snip>

    The good news about our newly divided government is that this sort of reckless extravagance will now be harder to engineer. Democrats are not about to go along with any tax cuts that Republicans would want. So a measure of fiscal responsibility could make a comeback.

    That’s the historical pattern when power is split between the two parties. It was during a period of divided government in the 1990s that our elected officials took the steps needed to produce actual surpluses in the federal budget. For a few years there, believe it or not, the government spent less money than it took in.

    The late William Niskanen, who headed Ronald Reagan’s Council of Economic Advisers, detected a pattern. In the years since World War II, he noted in 2006, the only periods of fiscal restraint were “the last six years of the Eisenhower administration and the last six years of the Clinton administration, both intervals in which the opposition controlled Congress.” Spending grew three times faster under unified government, he found, than under divided government.

    This formula held under Barack Obama. “Virtually all net spending increases during the Obama administration were enacted during 2009-10, when Democrats controlled Congress,” writes Brian Riedl, a budget analyst for the conservative Manhattan Institute. After the GOP took over the House in 2011 (and the Senate in 2015), it curbed his plans.

    In Obama’s final six years, nearly $900 billion in spending cuts were signed into law. “The fiscal restraint from 2011 through 2016 resulted from gridlock,” Riedl concludes — and the gridlock came from you-know-what. But Republicans are better at forcing budget restraint on Democratic presidents than on Republican ones.

    Over the decade ahead of us, the deficit will keep growing regardless, thanks to past tax cuts, rising interest payments, increases in defense spending and the growing cost of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Attacking those causes, granted, will be even harder with the split in Congress. But let’s not kid ourselves. Congress has ignored them over the past two years, and odds are it would have kept doing so even with a Republican House.

    Our leaders have shown little inclination to take the steps needed to make the fiscal situation (or much else) any better. Now, at least, it won’t be so easy for them to make it worse.
    more at link.



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  3. #2

  4. #3

  5. #4
    https://www.npr.org/2017/09/09/54921...ry-is-he-right

    Trump Says Debt Ceiling Is 'Not Necessary.' Is He Right?


    The debt ceiling's days as a recurring sticking point for politicians, and a recurring worry for government employees, could be numbered, according to President Trump.

    He told reporters on Thursday that "there are a lot of good reasons" to get rid of it, and The Washington Post reported Thursday on an agreement between Trump and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., to work toward that end over the next couple months.

    Still, despite Trump and Schumer's "gentleman's agreement," as one Post source called it, to work to get rid of the ceiling, any plan to actually do away with the ceiling would need Republican congressional leaders, who currently oppose the idea, to get on board. Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, R-Wis., specifically has come out against eliminating the ceiling vote.

    But Trump said it is not off the table.

    "I think it could be discussed," Trump said. "For many years, people have been talking about getting rid of debt ceiling all together, and there are a lot of good reasons to do that. So certainly, that's something that will be discussed. We even discussed it at the meeting that we had yesterday. It complicates things, it's really not necessary."
    On the other hand, Trump has said he "might" support a lot of things he never really does support.

    What could be next

    If the debt ceiling were to be eliminated, it's unclear what would come in its place. According to numerous reports, Vice President Pence floated the idea of reinstating "the Gephardt rule," which does away with the need for a second vote to approve borrowing once Congress has already voted once to approve a spending that inherently necessitates borrowing. (The U.S. is projected to spend $4 trillion this year, while only bringing in about $3.3 trillion in taxes and fees.)

    In 1979, Rep. Richard Gephardt, D-Mo., approached the parliamentarian about doing away with the second vote.

    "I asked if there was a way that when we pass the budget [the debt ceiling] can be deemed 'raised' to accommodate the budget people are voting for," Gephardt told The Atlantic in 2011. "He said, 'Yeah, we think we can work that out.' "

    And so for a period, the debt ceiling increased whenever a new budget was approved.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-12-2018 at 03:53 PM.

  6. #5
    Not likely and even if some reduction happens it won't be as much as would happen if conservatives had real full control unimpeded by Demoncrats and RINOs.

    Meanwhile other more important issues are put at risk by giving the Demoncrats any power.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Not likely and even if some reduction happens it won't be as much as would happen if conservatives had real full control unimpeded by Demoncrats and RINOs.

    Meanwhile other more important issues are put at risk by giving the Demoncrats any power.
    How much have they reduced spending by while they have had unimpeded power the last two years?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    How much have they reduced spending by while they have had unimpeded power the last two years?
    They haven't had it, there are too many RINOs.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They haven't had it, there are too many RINOs.
    Nothing is the Republican's fault (since there are no real Republicans?) I guess. Even when they control all of government.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Nothing is the Republican's fault (since there are no real Republicans?) I guess. Even when they control all of government.
    There are far too many Demoncrats in Republican clothing and the Senate majority was almost non-existent.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Jan2017
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Good.
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Nice.
    A couple years of absolutely no legislation of any kind getting passed into law - anything with a chance Trump could threaten veto as well..

  13. #11
    Why is Zippy still here?

    Pro-democrat pieces now. Great.

    Liberals are cancer - we can't have a single internet site without them eating at it, destroying it.

  14. #12
    Jan2017
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    A couple years of absolutely no legislation of any kind . . .
    Nancy Pelosi said last week that they will work on legislation "to show what would get passed if we could control the Senate."

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...109-story.html

    More accurately, a divided Congress is usually a more frugal Congress. It isn't because Democrats control the purse- it is because neither has full control over spending.
    That sounds mighty fine to me.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Why is Zippy still here?

    Pro-democrat pieces now. Great.

    Liberals are cancer - we can't have a single internet site without them eating at it, destroying it.
    The article isn't pro-democrat- try reading.

    And there is no real difference between the left or right.
    There is no spoon.

  17. #15
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    Fat is actually healthy.

    Wine is actually good for your liver.

    Not showering is actually healthier.

    LoL

    up down black white here's how, read inside.

    LoL

    every article a surprise, "its not what you think!"

    Yeah, I already figured it out. Every article is going to tell me that the world is exactly the opposite what I know it to be.
    Because nobody wants to read that man rarely bites dog. So they say man is always biting the dog.

    LoL

    Article is total and utter hypothetical


    buuuuuulllllsssssshhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    The article isn't pro-democrat- try reading.

    And there is no real difference between the left or right.
    LOL
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    it means subpoenas. Witch hunts and wastes of money.

    Democrats still out for blood following the 2016 upset. No platform issues, just investigations that will yield nothing.


    But thank God we'll see Trump's tax returns and no one will give a damn.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    buuuuuulllllsssssshhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
    Love all this partisan conventional wisdom to death. My how certain partisans in this thread are determined to reinforce the powers that be and their divisive fairy tales.

    OK, partisans. You want us to buy the bull. Here's what you do: Research when a Republican-held Congress and a Republican president resulted in lower deficits.

    If you want to call b.s. maybe you should know something about something besides the 'conventional wisdom' and other fake news. Maybe you should research some actual facts.

    Coolidge was one example of a Republican president making a Congress keep its promises. Find an example since then. I dare you.

    Hint: Don't bother looking at Reagan...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  22. #19
    And so the Grand Circus continues, America in close, deeply compliant tow.

    Live your lives and stop worrying about liberty. The mob is uninterested.

  23. #20
    Insert “He’s right you know” meme^

    Too far gone is how I’d put put
    No - No - No - No
    2016

  24. #21
    You partisans are quick to scream and cry and melt like a snowflake and scream "Evil Democrat!!!1!!" and call for bannings when your beloved RINOs are criticized. Fine. Research the cold hard truth yourself. Find us an example since Coolidge of Republicans in Congress and the White House cutting the deficit. I triple yellow dog dare you.

    See if you can "call b.s." with something besides b.s.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You partisans are quick to scream and cry and melt like a snowflake and scream "Evil Democrat!!!1!!" and call for bannings when your beloved RINOs are criticized. Fine. Research the cold hard truth yourself. Find us an example since Coolidge of Republicans in Congress and the White House cutting the deficit. I triple yellow dog dare you.

    See if you can "call b.s." with something besides b.s.
    The what-aboutism...sigh. But since you asked, the only times the deficit has fallen in the last decade is when the GOP has had the House, which is pretty much the opposite of the propaganda in this piece.

    Furthermore, the CBO clearly indicated that the long term deficit effects of the Obama years wouldn't be felt until after he left office.

    But yeah, Trump's a dick for not making them cut spending. We can agree on that.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    You're welcome.
    Last edited by angelatc; 11-13-2018 at 09:05 AM.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The what-aboutism...sigh. But since you asked, the only times the deficit has fallen in the last decade is when the GOP has had the House, which is pretty much the opposite of the propaganda in this piece.
    .
    Oh? I could have sworn the point of this alleged 'propaganda' was that bipartisan gridlock lowers deficits better than total GOP control does. Are you saying that a GOP House during the Obama administration doesn't qualify as bipartisan gridlock?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    But since you asked, the only times the deficit has fallen in the last decade is when the GOP has had the House, which is pretty much the opposite of the propaganda in this piece.


    [IMG][/IMG]

    You're welcome.
    Your image shows that the deficit was reduced between 2011 and 2015, when the House was controlled by the GOP. This is exactly what the original article stated: that when the government is divided, there is less spending. I'm not sure how you thought this supported your argument. Your graphic actually fully supports the article.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ Liberty View Post
    Your image shows that the deficit was reduced between 2011 and 2015, when the House was controlled by the GOP. This is exactly what the original article stated: that when the government is divided, there is less spending. I'm not sure how you thought this supported your argument. Your graphic actually fully supports the article.
    The alleged propaganda, yes. The misleading headline, no.

    Pays to actually read the article, doesn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The alleged propaganda, yes. The misleading headline, no.

    Pays to actually read the article, doesn't it?
    Yup.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Oh? I could have sworn the point of this alleged 'propaganda' was that bipartisan gridlock lowers deficits better than total GOP control does. Are you saying that a GOP House during the Obama administration doesn't qualify as bipartisan gridlock?
    If you dig through my posting history, I'm pretty consistent about never assigning deficit to a president. But Zippy wasn't posting stats like this when the 3-prong Dem monster was passing out our cash to every crony bank, union and auto maker you can name. He doesn't care if the deficit rises.

    It's about him. He doesn't belong here.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    If you dig through my posting history, I'm pretty consistent about never assigning deficit to a president. But Zippy wasn't posting stats like this when the 3-prong Dem monster was passing out our cash to every crony bank, union and auto maker you can name. He doesn't care if the deficit rises.

    It's about him. He doesn't belong here.
    None of these partisans care about the deficit when their "team" is in total control. And both major parties, when they're in full control, go full retard. Why rail only at the b.s. of one? The b.s. stinks just as bad on the other side of the aisle.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-13-2018 at 10:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  33. #29
    Zip has me excited , I cannot wait for the dems to whip out the balanced budget .
    Do something Danke

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    None of these partisans care about the deficit when their "team" is in total control. And both major parties, when they're in full control, go full retard. Why rail only at the b.s. of one? The b.s. stinks just as bad on the other side of the aisle.
    I don't think that there's any lack of railing against spending here no matter who is signing the checks.

    But Ron Paul is a Republican. Ron Paul said we should work in the GOP. Zippy is not here promoting Ron Paul's message, he's here only to undermine the minuscule amount of cohesion we have left.

    It's about him. He doesn't belong here.
    Last edited by angelatc; 11-13-2018 at 11:31 AM.

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