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Thread: EU Populists In France, Hungary And Italy Continue To Surge In Polls

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    In other words you have a god complex and believe yourself to be justified in using deadly force to impose your will far beyond the justification that self defense provides.
    In other words, I have a coherent political philosophy, and express it without reservation.

    ...disagree all you like, but there it is, clearly presented.

    Meanwhile, you (and RJB) have an incoherent political philosophy, and engage in intellectual dishonesty in order to conceal that incoherence.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    In other words, I have a coherent political philosophy, and express it without reservation.

    ...disagree all you like, but there it is, clearly presented.

    Meanwhile, you (and RJB) have an incoherent political philosophy, and engage in intellectual dishonesty in order to conceal that incoherence.
    I have a coherent philosophy as I have explained in depth before, you only have a right to enforce justice in a large enough group/big enough territroy to defend your own rights.

    RJB may not express it as clearly but he has an instinctive understanding of the same principle.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I have a coherent philosophy as I have explained in depth before, you only have a right to enforce justice in a large enough group/big enough territroy to defend your own rights.

    RJB may not express it as clearly but he has an instinctive understanding of the same principle.
    Your views could be formed into a coherent political philosophy, but they aren't so long as you refuse to admit that the "national rights" aspect of your theory contradicts libertarian principles. By way of analogy, socialism is a perfectly coherent political philosophy (monstrous, but coherent), but a socialist who claims that his views are consistent with libertarianism (i.e. who advocates two contradictory positions) has an incoherent political philosophy.

    This is all I want, for you and other nationalists to admit the contradiction between nationalism and libertarianism.

    Once that's done, I could care less what you believe.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Your views could be formed into a coherent political philosophy, but they aren't so long as you refuse to admit that the "national rights" aspect of your theory contradicts libertarian principles. By way of analogy, socialism is a perfectly coherent political philosophy (monstrous, but coherent), but a socialist who claims that his views are consistent with libertarianism (i.e. who advocates two contradictory positions) has an incoherent political philosophy.

    This is all I want, for you and other nationalists to admit the contradiction between nationalism and libertarianism.

    Once that's done, I could care less what you believe.
    There is no contradiction.

    Libertarianism deals with how a country should be run, nationalism deals with who should run it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #35
    Now let's dissect this:

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    So, this is the part of the evening where you resort to intellectual dishonesty to avoid admitting the logical implications of your own statements
    I've stated I will defend my country's liberty. That's what it was founded on. I have been quite clear. I also have no desire to interfere with the lives of others outside of my realm. I have also been clear. I think Ron Paul would agree.

    and I've become tired of playing whackamole (you and Swordsmyth must have been exchanging notes).
    Paranoid much?

    You didn't answer my question, and for the reason that the answer (to whether you endorse violence against people in your neighborhood to enforce libertarianism) is yes, but you don't want to admit this because it then becomes obvious that there is only an arbitrary geographical distinction between your position and mine, which troubles you.
    That is the way of history. A group of people who have a way of life they cherish eventually must defend their way of life from invaders who will kill them. If they leave me alone, I will leave them alone. I don't see how you are claiming victory here?

    As for your question (which I had assumed was rhetorical and only intended to wrongly imply that I'm some kind of warmonger, as you also explicitly accused me of being, despite that being a stupid and/or dishonest accusation), who do I want to bomb? Whoever it is necessary to bomb to maximize human liberty. In other words, the same as you, except I extend this reasoning to all human beings, not only those who happen live within an arbitrarily selected distance from my own present location on planet Earth.
    No no no. We are different in who we would bomb

    So your answer is to my question is, "Yes." You would bomb foreign lands-- which I would not. You are also for open borders for people to change our country into a Marxist land-- where I would defend the "arbitrary" borders. Why all the drama? How is what I said intellectually dishonest? How are you more intellectually honest?


    Short answer for those who don't want to read all this: Rev33 bombs people in foreign lands who won't bother him, I will not. On the other hand, I will fight an invading force who will destroy my way of life, Rev33 will not.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    RJB may not express it as clearly
    The final bolded part in my last post spells it out better. Rev and I were talking past each other a bit, but I think it's pretty clear now.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    True or False - you're in favor of using violence to force people (at least those in your neighborhood) to observe libertarian principles?
    Actually I will have to say false. I believe that abortion kills a human life. Abortions do happen in my city, but I haven't hurt anyone over it, nor will I. However, I wish states rights were observed. I would like to see Roe V Wade over turned.

  10. #38
    I had a little whisky last night and was a bit more antagonistic than usual. So I apologize but this really has gotten to me:

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    who do I want to bomb? Whoever it is necessary to bomb to maximize human liberty.
    This sounds like a neocon/John McCain like policy. It seems like what is perpetuating an endless cycle. We bomb and make homeless millions of people in Muslim and Central American countries. They move North. This causes a backlash leading to nationalism which leads to you wanting to bomb nationalistic countries. Why not just leave people be?

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    I had a little whisky last night and was a bit more antagonistic than usual. So I apologize but this really has gotten to me:



    This sounds like a neocon/John McCain like policy. It seems like what is perpetuating an endless cycle. We bomb and make homeless millions of people in Muslim and Central American countries. They move North. This causes a backlash leading to nationalism which leads to you wanting to bomb nationalistic countries. Why not just leave people be?
    I see nothing that would require an apology from you.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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