What changing attitudes have you noticed in your average leftist voter?

[nobody's_hero]

Open discussion.

There's a lot of sentiment on these boards that we're all in this together versus the state. Sounds great and all. For this claim to hold water, you gotta give me something to back it up. I'm curious to know what effort the left has made to have the necessary self-reflection and possibly change their minds on any issue whatsoever that would move us towards liberty.

I'll wait.

[CaptUSA]

There are some good sides of the "Left" (unless you're talking about their politicians.)

Generally, they are opposed to corporate welfare (unless you consider subsidizing corporate labor, then they're all for it).
Generally, they are anti-war (unless the war is portrayed as being for humanitarian reasons)
Generally, they want to keep the government out of the bedroom
Generally, they are more socially and culturally accepting (unless that culture is one that they deem to be "oppressive", then they get all rabidly oppressive themselves)
Generally, they're supportive of the Nordic models (oops, only the free $#@! part - not the free trade and low regulation part)

Still, I think there are opportunities there. I could make the same kind of list for the "right".

[phill4paul]

No part of the left is "against the state." The entirety of the left worships it. As does the majority of the right. But, at least within the right there is a tiny minority that is against the state in the size it has grown into. No one on the left thinks that the government is too big. Not a one.

[AuH20]

They are far more impatient and impulsive. But less learned than past leftists. They truly embody a herd.

[acptulsa]

The average Democrat is disaffected, disenfranchised and disgusted, and tired of the media characterizing them all as Antifa. For proof one need look no farther than the numbers of them who held their noses and voted for Trump, because they couldn't hold their noses tight enough to keep Clinton's stench out.

[AuH20]

It's amazing what a few decades can do and you massively acquire power. We have reached the culling phase, when it's no longer about winning hearts and minds. You effectively control every major institution, so the next stage is compliance and elimination.

[RJB]

Stereotypes aren't usually based on the majority of a group, but rather the loudest most obnoxiously memorable minority. That said, this is how I see things in regards to your question.

The average democrat is disappointed at how divided things are and wonders what the hell happened to this country.

The average leftist, who is the obnoxious minority of Democrats, gives the average Democrat a bad name. These people see the foundations that gave them their cushy life as evil. They are very backwards. The Constitution is racist. Christianity is mysogynistic. Free speech is oppressive. In other words, everything of Western culture is wrong. However they offer nothing better than to tear it all down

[Danke]

There are some good sides of the "Left" (unless you're talking about their politicians.)

Generally, they are opposed to corporate welfare (unless you consider subsidizing corporate labor, then they're all for it).
Generally, they are anti-war (unless the war is portrayed as being for humanitarian reasons)
Generally, they want to keep the government out of the bedroom
Generally, they are more socially and culturally accepting (unless that culture is one that they deem to be "oppressive", then they get all rabidly oppressive themselves)
Generally, they're supportive of the Nordic models (oops, only the free $#@! part - not the free trade and low regulation part)

Still, I think there are opportunities there. I could make the same kind of list for the "right".

"corporate welfare" usually means lower taxes and is a disingenuous use of the term "welfare." What is your definition?

[acptulsa]

"corporate welfare" usually means lower taxes and is a disingenuous use of the term "welfare." What is your definition?

Lucrative government contracts to do things that don't need to be done? Military bodyguards for oilfield workers and poppy growers? Obamacare?

Democrats think they're against it, but it often gets camouflaged as welfare for the poor (think Obama phones) and they get tricked into supporting it. Just as Republicans get tricked into supporting things like arms for Muslim countries because that means MIC jobs.

[dannno]

There are some good sides of the "Left" (unless you're talking about their politicians.)

Generally, they are opposed to corporate welfare (unless you consider subsidizing corporate labor, then they're all for it).
Generally, they are anti-war (unless the war is portrayed as being for humanitarian reasons)
Generally, they want to keep the government out of the bedroom
Generally, they are more socially and culturally accepting (unless that culture is one that they deem to be "oppressive", then they get all rabidly oppressive themselves)
Generally, they're supportive of the Nordic models (oops, only the free $#@! part - not the free trade and low regulation part)

Still, I think there are opportunities there. I could make the same kind of list for the "right".

This is pretty out of date. I haven't heard the left say anything anti-war in almost a decade.. on top of that they are worshiping Bill Kristol now, because Trump...

They seem to be entirely useless, and entirely destructive at this point.

I used to vote Green Party because they were anti-war, anti war on drugs, pro civil liberties. I still liked the economics of the right, but that was all they had going for them and they weren't doing anything with it.

Now Republicans are much more balanced on war, compared to the left, and they are pro-legalization of herb. The left really has nothing going for it anymore on any front.

[Danke]

Lucrative government contracts to do things that don't need to be done? Military bodyguards for oilfield workers and poppy growers? Obamacare?

Democrats think they're against it, but it often gets camouflaged as welfare for the poor (think Obama phones) and they get tricked into supporting it. Just as Republicans get tricked into supporting things like arms for Muslim countries because that means MIC jobs.

I agree it exist, but when I here "corporate welfare" from the left, it always seems to be about tax "breaks."

[acptulsa]

I agree it exist, but when I here "corporate welfare" from the left, it always seems to be about tax "breaks."

True. American voters on both " sides of the aisle" have a distressing inability to recognize a dog even when it's biting their ankles.

[CaptUSA]

"corporate welfare" usually means lower taxes and is a disingenuous use of the term "welfare." What is your definition?

Well, tax credits are a form of corporate welfare, but not the only one. If you give a tax credit to one industry or business, but not to a competitor, then it is most definitely a cronyist giveaway. (You know those tax credits are often crafted to limit eligibility to only the favor ones, right?) But it also includes direct and indirect subsidies, grants, unnecessary contracts, and even protectionist trade barriers. All of those things give the connected corporate interest "welfare" at the expense of their competitors and the taxpayers.

[CaptUSA]

I agree it exist, but when I here "corporate welfare" from the left, it always seems to be about tax "breaks."

First, tax "breaks" and tax "credits" are two different things.
Secondly, even if they are "breaks", if they're only applied to certain favored interests that's great for them, but it hurts their competition who didn't get the break.

[Anti Federalist]

What changing attitudes have you noticed in your average leftist voter?

Open discussion.

There's a lot of sentiment on these boards that we're all in this together versus the state. Sounds great and all. For this claim to hold water, you gotta give me something to back it up. I'm curious to know what effort the left has made to have the necessary self-reflection and possibly change their minds on any issue whatsoever that would move us towards liberty.

I'll wait.

Support of genocide, to answer the thread title question.

Self loathing whites and leftists of color have made it clear that they want me, my family, my history, my traditions and my posterity to cease to exist.

The more "moderate" and polite ones say they would be happy with my erasure from public life and influence, accomplished through a very effective replace and displace program.

The more open and honest ones admit to preferring mass grave genocide, of the very real sort.

This is no longer a political discussion, philosophical argument or heated debate.

This is a fight for survival.

As for the "change their minds on any issue whatsoever that would move us towards liberty" that is ludicrous on the face of it.

This current mob of Bolshevik-Jacobinites aggressively do not want freedom.

They are actively clamoring for repeal of multiple articles in the Bill of Rights, are more than happy to seize money, property and wealth to re-distribute it, they have no respect of individual liberties...the individual lives to serve the state, period.

Holding any individual thought that is deemed "unacceptable" now justifies, in the Bolshevik's mind, utter destruction.

[Danke]

First, tax "breaks" and tax "credits" are two different things.
Secondly, even if they are "breaks", if they're only applied to certain favored interests that's great for them, but it hurts their competition who didn't get the break.

I was responding to your post that began: "There are some good sides of the "Left"

To me anyway, they seem to think that lowering the tax rate on businesses is a form of welfare.

[Danke]

Support of genocide, to answer the thread title question.

Self loathing whites and leftists of color have made it clear that they want me, my family, my history, my traditions and my posterity to cease to exist.

The more "moderate" and polite ones say they would be happy with my erasure from public life and influence, accomplished through a very effective replace and displace program.

The more open and honest ones admit to preferring mass grave genocide, of the very real sort.

This is no longer a political discussion, philosophical argument or heated debate.

This is a fight for survival.

As for the "change their minds on any issue whatsoever that would move us towards liberty" that is ludicrous on the face of it.

This current mob of Bolshevik-Jacobinites aggressively do not want freedom.

They are actively clamoring for repeal of multiple articles in the Bill of Rights, are more than happy to seize money, property and wealth to re-distribute it, they have no respect of individual liberties...the individual lives to serve the state, period.

Holding any individual thought that is deemed "unacceptable" now justifies, in the Bolshevik's mind, utter destruction.

Just replace feminism with leftism, u get the point...

[CaptUSA]

I was responding to your post that began: "There are some good sides of the "Left"

To me anyway, they seem to think that lowering the tax rate on businesses is a form of welfare.

So yeah, my post was meant to be ironic - because they support some good things, but they're anything but consistent. I know they want a higher corporate tax rate, but I guess I don't usually hear them call that corporate welfare. It's usually about the special loopholes and giveaways.

[Anti Federalist]

Just replace feminism with leftism, u get the point...

Yup, that is one "wing" of the left's aggressiveness.

"They" always said they wanted "population control. "Our" mistake was looking at the wrong methods that would be used.

Turns out very effective population control has been put in place by making woemen abhorrent and loathsome and promoting buggery as a suitable replacement for them.

[acptulsa]

Support of genocide, to answer the thread title question.

Self loathing whites and leftists of color have made it clear that they want me, my family, my history, my traditions and my posterity to cease to exist.

The more "moderate" and polite ones say they would be happy with my erasure from public life and influence, accomplished through a very effective replace and displace program.

The more open and honest ones admit to preferring mass grave genocide, of the very real sort.

This is no longer a political discussion, philosophical argument or heated debate.

This is a fight for survival.

As for the "change their minds on any issue whatsoever that would move us towards liberty" that is ludicrous on the face of it.

This current mob of Bolshevik-Jacobinites aggressively do not want freedom.

They are actively clamoring for repeal of multiple articles in the Bill of Rights, are more than happy to seize money, property and wealth to re-distribute it, they have no respect of individual liberties...the individual lives to serve the state, period.

Holding any individual thought that is deemed "unacceptable" now justifies, in the Bolshevik's mind, utter destruction.

Uh huh.

You go off on these media-fueled rants, and I think back to a time before the trumpcucks chased everyone away from here. And for every angry leftist like Kade there were at least half a dozen SnappleLlamas, Little_Light_Shinings and FlightlessKiwis.

I see the way the media is trying to drive wedges and destroy communication among Americans, and the way they point their cameras only at the worst of the Left (just as the only ones on the Right who get covered are skinheads and members of Westboro Baptist Church). I also see what the powers that be stand to gain by playing that game.

And do you know what? I don't want to personally help them pull that $#@! off. Are you sure you do?

[Anti Federalist]

Uh huh.

You go off on these media-fueled rants, and I think back to a time before the trumpcucks chased everyone away from here. And for every angry leftist like Kade there were at least half a dozen SnappleLlamas, Little_Light_Shinings and FlightlessKiwis.

I see the way the media is trying to drive wedges and destroy communication among Americans, and the way they point their cameras only at the worst of the Left (just as the only ones on the Right who get covered are skinheads and members of Westboro Baptist Church). I also see what the powers that be stand to gain by playing that game.

And do you know what? I don't want to personally help them pull that $#@! off. Are you sure you do?

That was a very encouraging and enjoyable and hopeful time.

The philosophy of which was utterly and totally rejected by the great vast majority of the AmeriKunt people.

That time is now gone and over with.

I have re-evaluated my stance based on the current reality.

We're still free to talk about trains and old cars though...

[Ender]

Uh huh.

You go off on these media-fueled rants, and I think back to a time before the trumpcucks chased everyone away from here. And for every angry leftist like Kade there were at least half a dozen SnappleLlamas, Little_Light_Shinings and FlightlessKiwis.

I see the way the media is trying to drive wedges and destroy communication among Americans, and the way they point their cameras only at the worst of the Left (just as the only ones on the Right who get covered are skinheads and members of Westboro Baptist Church). I also see what the powers that be stand to gain by playing that game.

And do you know what? I don't want to personally help them pull that $#@! off. Are you sure you do?

Exactly the way I see it.

TPTB are striving to have the right/left narrative separate us & have us fighting amongst ourselves while they increase war/the MIC/more loss of freedoms, without anyone noticing what is really going on.

All the people I know are saying "WTH is happening???"

[Danke]

Uh huh.

You go off on these media-fueled rants, and I think back to a time before the trumpcucks chased everyone away from here. And for every angry leftist like Kade there were at least half a dozen SnappleLlamas, Little_Light_Shinings and FlightlessKiwis.

I see the way the media is trying to drive wedges and destroy communication among Americans, and the way they point their cameras only at the worst of the Left (just as the only ones on the Right who get covered are skinheads and members of Westboro Baptist Church). I also see what the powers that be stand to gain by playing that game.

And do you know what? I don't want to personally help them pull that $#@! off. Are you sure you do?

I think most left before 2016, at least two of the three you mentioned did.

I just don't see any evidence of "trumpcucks chased everyone away."


Anarchist and Trump backers certainly haven't chased me away.

[Ender]

That was a very encouraging and enjoyable and hopeful time.

The philosophy of which was utterly and totally rejected by the great vast majority of the AmeriKunt people.

That time is now gone and over with.

I have re-evaluated my stance based on the current reality.

We're still free to talk about trains and old cars though...

I don't see the hate/leftist/rightist dialog as "reality". I see it as something that's being forced on Americans to take their eye off of what is really happening and to be even more compliant to a fascist dictatorship.

[UWDude]

Uh huh.

You go off on these media-fueled rants, and I think back to a time before the trumpcucks chased everyone away from here. And for every angry leftist like Kade there were at least half a dozen SnappleLlamas, Little_Light_Shinings and FlightlessKiwis.

I see the way the media is trying to drive wedges and destroy communication among Americans, and the way they point their cameras only at the worst of the Left (just as the only ones on the Right who get covered are skinheads and members of Westboro Baptist Church). I also see what the powers that be stand to gain by playing that game.

And do you know what? I don't want to personally help them pull that $#@! off. Are you sure you do?

The censorship of the right by silicon valley is not just the media making a mountain out of a molehill. It is very real. I know from experience, and if I know from experience, millions upon millions of other people worldwide know as well. So it's not just a left/right distraction game.

It is reality. The left is on a totalitarian march.

I joined Occupy to stop the wars, and to fight for the freedom of speech and assembly, first and foremost.

Freedom of Speech is ALWAYS #1.

[Anti Federalist]

All the people I know are saying "WTH is happening???"

We tend to surround ourselves in echo chambers.

Through work and some other endeavors I am exposed to a pretty large swath of the general public.

Most of these folks I have utterly nothing in common with.

[Ender]

We tend to surround ourselves in echo chambers.

Through work and some other endeavors I am exposed to a pretty large swath of the general public.

Most of these folks I have utterly nothing in common with.

I also work with a diverse crowd- some very opposing political views- but none of them are into the hate carp that's going on through the MSM & TPTB.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't see the hate/leftist/rightist dialog as "reality". I see it as something that's being forced on Americans to take their eye off of what is really happening and to be even more compliant to a fascist dictatorship.

We are already under a "leftist" dictatorship...this is what I would like to avoid, the United States devolving into a banana republic of flip flopping left/right dictatorships.

[Danke]

That was a very encouraging and enjoyable and hopeful time.

The philosophy of which was utterly and totally rejected by the great vast majority of the AmeriKunt people.

That time is now gone and over with.

I have re-evaluated my stance based on the current reality.

We're still free to talk about trains and old cars though...

They became the envy of the world. They polluted their money. They engaged in foreign conquest. They wallowed in debauchery. Their political process became a political circus. The world realized they were hollow and that their feet were made of sand. Then the invasions began.


The Roman Empire fell.

[Anti Federalist]

[FONT="]They became the envy of the world. They polluted their money. They engaged in foreign conquest. They wallowed in debauchery. Their political process became a political circus. The world realized they were hollow and that their feet were made of sand. Then the invasions began.[/FONT]


The Roman Empire fell.

And there you have it.

Prosperity makes weak men.

Weak men bring hardship.

Hardship makes strong men.

Strong men bring prosperity.