View Poll Results: Do you support US selling weapons to dictators who torture/dismember/kill journalists?

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  • Yes

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Thread: Do you support US selling weapons to dictators who torture/dismember/kill journalists?

  1. #1

    Do you support US selling weapons to dictators who torture/dismember/kill journalists?

    Do you support US selling weapons to oppressive dictators who torture/dismember/kill journalists/political opponents?

    Vote in attached poll.


    Blood on his hands? Secretary of State Pompeo shakes hands and smiles with Saudi Crown Prince in Riyadh just as Turkish officials say they’ve found ‘certain evidence’ Saudi journalist was murdered


    • Secretary of State Mike Pompeo arrives in Riyadh to discuss the alleged killing
    • He meets with King Salman for talks over disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi
    • Crown Prince Mohammed says Saudi Arabia and the U.S. are 'old strong' allies
    • Turkish official says evidence found in search proved he was killed in consulate
    • Kingdom could admit the journalist was murdered in 'interrogation gone wrong'
    • Google and other CEOs pull out of big 'Davos in the Desert' business conference
    • One Republican senator advocated 'blowing up' a $110 billion Saudi arms deal
    • Another said he would use his leverage to 'sanction the hell out of Saudi Arabia'

    By Chris Dyer For Mailonline and Ap
    Published: 16 October 2018

    U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Tuesday met with Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed, the man alleged to have ordered the interrogation and killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul.
    Pompeo landed in Riyadh and was immediately driven to meet King Salman over the crisis surrounding Khashoggi, who vanished two weeks ago during a visit to the Saudi consulate.
    As he greeted the crown prince, Pompeo smiled and gleefully shook his hand—an act which some have seen as showing support to the regime which has increasingly cracked down on dissent in recent years.
    While America's top diplomat posed for photos, senators in Washington were buzzing about harsh new sanctions in response to the killing.
    Pompeo's arrival in Riyadh came just hours after Turkish forensic teams searched through the consulate to find evidence of what happened to the Saudi writer.

    +33



    U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo smiles and shakes hands with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in Riyadh today

    +33

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Khashoggi.html




    Media attacks on Trump son-in-law escalate following alleged killing of journalist by his chum




    Saudi Arabia’s barbaric, blood-soaked tyrant MBS is no Crown Prince Charming - it’s time President Trump held his medieval mate’s feet to the fire

    By Piers Morgan
    18 October 2018

    What’s the worst way to possibly die?

    It’s hard to imagine anything more sickening and barbaric than what is alleged to have happened to Saudi Arabian journalist Jamal Khashoggi, a columnist for the Washington Post.

    He was apparently lured to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, Turkey, where he was confronted by a 15-man hit squad that had flown in from Riyadh to murder him.
    But not, it is claimed, quickly.

    Jamal Khashoggi died in one of the worst ways imaginable. For seven long minutes he was tortured and hacked to pieces with a bone-saw while he was still alive. His body carted off in bags to be dissolved in acid

    He was dragged from the consul-general’s office to the table of a study next door.
    There, for seven long, agonising minutes, Khashoggi was reportedly tortured and hacked to pieces with a bone-saw while he was still alive.
    He was decapitated and had his fingers cut off one by one.
    Then, the severed remains of his torso were put in 15 plastic bags and removed, to be later dissolved in acid.
    Khashoggi’s ‘horrendous’ screams of pain were so loud they were heard downstairs by a witness.
    The chief executioner was allegedly ‘Dr Death’ Salah Muhammad al-Tubaigy, ‘head of forensic evidence’ for the Saudi general security department.
    His official title is President of the Saudi Fellowship of Forensic Pathology and he’s a man who enjoys his work.
    As Tubaigy began to dismember Khashoggi’s body, he apparently put on earphones and listened to music, advising other members of the squad to do the same.


    'Forensic expert': The chief executioner was allegedly ‘Dr Death’ Salah Muhammad al-Tubaigy, ‘head of forensic evidence’ for the Saudi general security department. He’s a man who enjoys his work. As Tubaigy began to dismember Khashoggi’s body, he apparently put on earphones and listened to music, advising other members of the squad to do the same

    ‘When I do this job, I listen to music,’ he was recorded as saying. ‘You should do (that) too.’

    Aftewards, cleaning crews were brought in to scrub and repaint the blood-stained crime scene.

    The more we learn about this horrific murder, the more disgusting it gets.

    But one thing is increasingly obvious: he wasn’t killed ‘accidentally’ during a botched interrogation, as Saudi sources are desperately trying to suggest.

    The consulate witness who heard the screams was clear: ‘They came to kill him to kill him, not interrogate him.’

    Of course they did.
    A 15-man team of highly trained men including royal House of Saud bodyguards and intelligence officers weren’t sent from Saudi Arabia to Turkey to have a ‘little chat’ with Khashoggi.
    They were sent to silence him – permanently.

    And to do it in such a despicable and depraved manner that it would deter others from following his path.
    And they would never have dared do this without the express knowledge and approval of Saudi Arabia’s new 33-year-old crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, who likes to call himself ‘MBS’.
    What had Khashoggi’s done to offend MBS?
    Simple: he dared to tell the truth.

    The 15-person execution squad would never have dared do this without the express knowledge and approval of Saudi Arabia’s new 33-year-old crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman. What had Khashoggi’s done to offend MBS? Simple: he dared to tell the truth



    Related

    Why the Khashoggi Murder Is a Disaster for Israel, Neocons War drive against Syria & Iran


    Lindsey Graham: He won't work with Saudi Arabia so long as MbS is Crown Prince


    Money drenched in blood: Pope scolds Congress for US made weapons sold around the world


    FILE PHOTO: U.S. President Donald Trump holds a chart of military hardware sales as he welcomes Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman at the White House in Washington, U.S. March 20, 2018\ Jonathan Ernst/ REUTERS


    The Starvation of Yemen
    Bomb that killed 40 kids in Yemen made in US

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndOJEVJufws



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  3. #2
    Rand Paul: Saudi explanation of Khashoggi's death 'insulting'

    By Megan Keller - 10/21/18 132



    © Greg Nash

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said Sunday that he does not believe Saudi Arabia's explanation of how dissident Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi died earlier this month.
    "Absolutely not, it’s insulting," Paul told "Fox News Sunday," when asked if he believed the Saudis' statement that Khashoggi died in a brawl gone wrong at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on Oct. 2.
    .@RandPaul on if he believes Saudi account of how Jamal Khashoggi died: “Absolutely not” pic.twitter.com/IX2Wgl5KeI
    — FoxNewsSunday (@FoxNewsSunday) October 21, 2018
    Turkish authorities have said they believe Saudi operatives murdered, tortured and dismembered Khashoggi when he entered the consulate that day, a claim the Saudis have denied.

    On Friday, the Saudis acknowledged that Khashoggi died in the consulate, but said it was the result of a fight gone wrong.
    Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman told President Trump last week that he had no foreknowledge of Khashoggi's fate.
    Paul told "Fox News Sunday" he doesn't believe that.
    "I feel certain that the crown prince was involved," Paul said.
    "I think it stretches credulity to believe the crown prince wasn't involved in this," he added. "And I think that's the way they're gonna write this off."
    "People in Saudi Arabia ought to be aware that when you're told what to do, you go and do it, and then they'll execute you and put on the blame on someone else," he said.
    "There’s no way 15 people were sent to Turkey to kill a dissident without the approval of the crown prince," Paul said, referencing the 15 Saudis a pro-government Turkish paper alleged were involved in Khashoggi's disappearance. Saudi Arabia said 18 were arrested in connection with the incident.

    "We have to be stronger than just saying, 'Oh, we're gonna sanction a few of these people and pretend like we're doing something,' " Paul said.
    "I think we really need to discontinue our arms sales to Saudi Arabia and have a long and serious discussion about whether or not they want to be an ally or they want to be an enemy."
    https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-...eath-insulting

  4. #3
    Poll: Do you support US selling weapons to dictators who torture/dismember/kill journalists?
    Suppose that instead of a "dictatorship" it's our usual government doing this.

    And suppose that this government of ours murders a large number of people every year, thousands: journalists or anybody else in the area.

  5. #4
    In that case you could answer such additional questions also that can be related to above question about foreign oppressive regimes (that can help express one's view on morality, profits, putting food on the table for our chidrens, civil rights etc.).

    Poll options unfortunately allow only one question at a time.

  6. #5
    I am a free trade guy . I do not though think that means the govt needs to be giving and selling weapons to anyone .
    Do something Danke

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I am a free trade guy .
    Free Trade by definition means you are free to trade with whoever you choose to trade with.

    If you are a baker and believe that selling a cake for a transgender wedding is against your moral/religious values, then "free trade" doctrine alone probably cannot force you to sell that cake.

    Another example, Free Trade doctrine could also not force a businessman to do business with a person who has just harmed his kid/family.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I am a free trade guy . I do not though think that means the govt needs to be giving and selling weapons to anyone .
    The arms trade is fraught with perils, there are only three morally defensible ways to deal with them.

    1 Go full AnCap and sell arms to anyone with money without knowing or caring how they will be used.
    2 Don't sell arms to anyone who is likely to misuse them at all in any way. (In this world that will limit you to only a very few customers and you will suffer losing them as formerly acceptable customers change their behavior {including possibly your own country})
    3 Only sell arms to your own country that is supposed to use them in your defense.

    The 1st and 3rd are the only practical business models.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    No... just no.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I am a free trade guy . I do not though think that means the govt needs to be giving and selling weapons to anyone .
    AMEN.
    There is no spoon.

  12. #10
    I only support dictators who bomb bus fulls of kids.
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
    Michigan Congressional District 3

  13. #11



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