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Thread: Bonanza For Weapons Industry: Trump Withdraws From Nuke Treaty

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Your reasoning attempted to connect two largely unrelated items in that retreating from NATO, a smart move in which we agree, would by no means perforce render the other treaty as unnecessary, here presuming its necessity for argument's sake. We could close every base on the planet and the nuclear threat would remain. Hence, the non sequitur nature of your argument.
    Nonsense. The original comment to which I responded argued to avoid entangling alliances. Pointing out to include NATO, the largest entangling alliance, is most certainly related to entangling alliances. It is a "fail" to say that the entangling alliance, NATO, is unrelated to entangling alliances. That makes no logical sense whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    you require a didctionary ASAP ... YOU are being disingenuous in some attempt to assassinate my credibility or reputation, or are in even more dire need of a dictionary than I'd previously thought with your assertion that I am openly advocating "in favor of neocon foreign military entanglements". I am doing no such thing.
    Except here is Osan advocating directly in favor of neocon foreign military entanglements: "Our military presence, like it or not - and I don't - is the ONLY thing keeping China at bay in the South China Sea."

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    If you think that we can simply disarm ourselves unilaterally and not face dire results, then I must conclude that in the very best case you have not been paying proper attention to what is going on in the world.
    This is a non sequitur logical fail, and straw man. No one has argued for unilateral disarm, or making the US defenseless from attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Your ignorance is showing. Once again, you falsely and unfoundedly label me a "neocon". You've done it in writing on a public site, no less. Were I a wealthy man decided to bury your ass, I could do so by this time next week
    Incorrect. No labeling of Osan, but rather correctly pointed out that "out pops the Neocon NPC mantras" – specifically from Osan: "Our military presence, like it or not - and I don't - is the ONLY thing keeping China at bay in the South China Sea."

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    you apparently do not know enough about what China is up to. ... you are hopelessly naive. My little brother who has forgotten more than you and I put together will ever know about this has educated me on what is really going on there. Your view does not accord in the least with reality ... You appear to be of the ilk ...

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    We handed China's trade ability to them on a silver platter. Had it not been for America, the Chinese would still be a 99.9% agrarian $#@! hole. America enabled China's rise
    Unbelievable. Just wow! IF China's successes are all due to US policies and not China, then these same US policies must also have turned Mexico and Canada and France and India and Brazil into such trade success stories as China.
    This reminds me of Obama effectively telling successful entrepreneurs and business owners - "You didn't do that yourself. I am responsible. Thank me very much."

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    It is American force that is keeping the shipping lanes free and we have been doing that for 200 years. You need to bone up on some history. America is the reason worldwide shipping is as safe as it is.
    And right after Osan denies any neocon mantas, out pops more neocon mantras. These are almost verbatim neocon npc recitation mantras. America is a force for good "keeping shipping lanes free" "America is the reason worldwide shipping is safe."

    These mantas are naive. US has no vital ports or even vital shipping in the South China Sea. What US shipping is involved in the South China Sea is almost all with China. In fact, over 90% of the total shipping that takes place the South China Sea is trade with China.

    As already explained, Washington has surrounded the South China Sea with military bases, and missiles and regular naval patrols of military intimidation. It is blatantly naive to think that this all to provide free protection of the Chinese shipping. That's ludicrous. Washington power mongers' think tanks have consistently outlined for two decades now a strategy to be able to control the South China Sea. The stated purpose of being able to shut off Chinese trade should they want to. In addition they have also outlined an active policy to obstruct Eurasian trade integration.

    One doesn't have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to realize the inevitable consequences of these activities. It is simple common sense and logic that these policies will inevitably result in China trying to secure and protect its vital shipping lanes. Are they overreaching with the building of islands and Spratly claims? - Sure, but this is certainly neither surprising nor unexpected nor even unreasonable under these circumstances. In fact it is quite predictable and would be surprising otherwise. It is Washington's expressed strategies and overt actions that has precipitated China's quest to secure and protect its vital trade. From their rationale perspective, it is a matter of survival.
    The US would do no less, and probably far, far, far, far more were the roles reversed.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The speculation was quite clear, to wit:"The INF limited such additional foreign interventions and entanglements."
    That's about as speculative as things get.
    The INF treaty most assuredly brought the intermediate range nukes out of Europe. By their mere removal that is a de facto reduction in foreign intervention and entanglement. There is nothing at all speculative about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    you are welcome to screw off. I now have three on my ignore list. You earned it.
    Last edited by AZJoe; 10-27-2018 at 08:00 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

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  3. #32
    U.S. President Donald Trump will listen to members of his administration before making a final decision on whether to withdraw from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty, U.S. Secretary of Defense James Mattis said, Tass reported Oct. 31.

    More at:
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

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