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Thread: President Trump to pull US from Russia missile treaty

  1. #1

    President Trump to pull US from Russia missile treaty

    Russia is already believed to be violating it.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45930206

    Signed by the US and the USSR in 1987, the arms control deal banned all nuclear and non-nuclear missiles with short and medium ranges, except sea-launched weapons

    The US had been concerned by the Soviet deployment of the SS-20 missile system and responded by placing Pershing and Cruise missiles in Europe - sparking widespread protests

    By 1991, nearly 2,700 missiles had been destroyed. Both countries were allowed to inspect the others installations

    In 2007, Russian president Vladimir Putin declared the treaty no longer served Russia's interests. The move came after the US withdrew from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2002


    The US will withdraw from a landmark nuclear weapons treaty with Russia, President Donald Trump has confirmed.

    Speaking to reporters, Mr Trump said Russia had "violated" the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty.

    The deal banned ground-launched medium-range missiles, with a range of between 500 and 5,500km (310-3,400 miles).

    The US would not let Russia "go out and do weapons [while] we're not allowed to", Mr Trump said.

    "I don't know why President [Barack] Obama didn't negotiate or pull out," the president said after a campaign rally in Nevada. "They've been violating it for many years."

    In 2014, President Obama accused Russia of breaching the INF after it allegedly tested a ground-launched cruise missile. He reportedly chose not to withdraw from the treaty under pressure from European leaders, who said such a move could restart an arms race.

    A Russian foreign ministry source said the US move was motivated by a "dream of a unipolar world" where it is the only global superpower, state news agency RIA Novosti reported.

    The US insists the Russians have, in breach of the deal, developed a new medium-range missile called the the Novator 9M729 - known to Nato as the SSC-8.

    It would enable Russia to launch a nuclear strike at Nato countries at very short notice.

    Russia has said little about its new missile other than to deny that it is in breach of the agreement.

    Analysts say Russia sees such weapons as a cheaper alternative to conventional forces.

    The New York Times reported on Friday the US was considering withdrawing from the treaty in a bid to counter China's expanding military presence in the western Pacific.

    The country was not a signatory of the deal, allowing it to develop medium-range missiles without restraint.

    National Security Adviser John Bolton is expected to tell the Russians of the withdrawal during talks in Moscow later this week.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Russia is already believed to be violating it.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45930206
    And so is the US.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    this is pure Bolton. Trump is a fool.


    RUSSIA CALLING U.S. PLAN TO QUIT WEAPONS PACT 'ULTIMATUM': IFX

    Russian senator calls Trump’s statement on withdrawal from INF Treaty ‘blackmail’
    http://tass.com/politics/1027054


    this is all about the US falling behind the curve aka: hypersonics
    nocons r butthurt & throwing a tantrum.
    All their NATO 'games' = zero sum. 2 bad.

    Head of Russian Federation Council's International Affairs Committee Konstantin Kosachev:

    "Article 15 of the Treaty envisages a unilateral pullout from it but upon exceptional circumstances, with their substantiation within six months. So far, no official steps towards this have been made, and this gives grounds to consider Trump’s statement as the continuing blackmail rather than an accomplished act of law,"

    "The cancellation of the INF Treaty may trigger a war," Konstantin Kosachev warned, calling to convene the UN Security Council to discuss the "critical" situation.

    "Consultations should be held between four nuclear powers [without the US] and there should be an urgent discussion at the Disarmament Conference in Geneva and a discussion by the United Nations Security Council. The situation is critical

    "The US does not need the balance of forces anymore. The Americans are seeking unilateral military superiority in the sphere of nuclear and conventional armaments to impose on the world their will and their interests," he said.

    Washington started ruining the agreements back in 2002 with terminating the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and continues this now by expanding NATO, Kosachev noted, dismissing this as "unilateral aggression."

    US accusations against Russia of violating the INF Treaty are vague, while Russia’s charges are rather particular, namely the missile shield in Poland and Romania, the missiles used as training targets, and also heavy lift drones
    Last edited by goldenequity; 10-21-2018 at 05:09 AM.

  5. #4
    Bolton wants to blow up S. China Sea too.


    US and Chinese air forces urged to sign up to #SouthChinaSea guidelines after ASEAN states agree on code of conduct
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mili...sea-guidelines

  6. #5
    opinion piece... his book "The Decay of Western Civilization and Resurgence of Russia"
    Russia Has Emerged as an International Conservative Leader
    https://sputniknews.com/amp/analysis...-conservatism/



    US withdrawing from INF Treaty to pursue unipolar world
    http://tass.com/defense/1027034
    Last edited by goldenequity; 10-21-2018 at 04:05 AM.

  7. #6

  8. #7
    “I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you f$*k with me, I’ll kill you all.”

    Putin wasn’t boasting or grandstanding about Russia’s hypersonic weapons capability. He told everyone they are deployed.
    He did this to shut up the U.S. neoconservative chattering class who he rightly says whisper in President Trump’s ear that they can win a nuclear conflict with Russia.

    They are insane. And you have to treat them that way.

    What Putin did at Valdai was to lay down the new rules of conduct in geopolitical affairs. He put the U.S. and European oligarchs I call The Davos Crowd on notice.

    There is a limit to your provocations and attempts to undermine Russia. So don’t cross that line.

    The big quote from his talk is the one everyone is focusing on, and rightly so, Russia’s policy about using nuclear weapons.

    It’s not that Putin’s stance was any different than in the past. Russia will strike back at an aggressor under any circumstance where the future of Russia is at stake.
    It was his assurance that in doing so
    1) it would be just and righteous “dying like martyrs” and
    2) so swift and brutal the aggressors would “die like dogs” bereft of the chance to ask for salvation.

    Those are strong words. They are the words of a meek man. And the word meek, as Jordan Peterson reminds us,
    describes someone who has weapons, knows how to use them and keeps them sheathed until they have no other option.

    The reaction from the audience was nervous laughter, but I don’t think Putin was having one over on anyone.

    He was serious. This is the very definition of meek.

    It is really no different than the attitude of Secretary of State James Mattis who said,
    “I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you f$*k with me, I’ll kill you all.”

    Men like this are not to be tested too hard.

  9. #8
    Some nice new shiny mid range missiles would look so nice rolling through Washington DC in a parade.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq



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  11. #9
    The good doctor Rand Paul:

    Last edited by AZJoe; 10-21-2018 at 08:07 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  12. #10
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  13. #11
    If both Russia and China are building missiles in violation of the treaty then the treaty is already dead. How do you enforce a political treaty? The only way is to tear it up and start over.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  14. #12
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  15. #13
    The tinfoil Russia-gators, that have been pushing Trump to be more belligerent, aggressive, and hostile to Russia and demanding escalation and confrontation are suddenly alarmed.



    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    Bolton wants to blow up S. China Sea too.


    US and Chinese air forces urged to sign up to #SouthChinaSea guidelines after ASEAN states agree on code of conduct
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mili...sea-guidelines
    Bolton is an insane psychopath. And Trump is the idiot that hired him.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  17. #15
    Caitlyn Johnstone blasts Russia-gaters: “Putin’s Puppet” Advances Nuclear Missile Escalations Against Putin

    Yesterday the news broke that Swamp Monster-In-Chief John Bolton has been pushing President Trump to withdraw from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces … Today, Trump has announced that he will be doing exactly as Bolton instructed.

    This would be the second missile treaty between the US and Russia that America has withdrawn from since it abandoned the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2002. John Bolton, an actual psychopath who Trump hired … ran point on that move as well back when he was part of the increasingly indistinguishable Bush administration. …

    “This is the most severe crisis in nuclear arms control since the 1980s,” Malcolm Chalmers, the deputy director general of the Royal United Services Institute, told The Guardian. “If the INF treaty collapses, and with the New Start treaty on strategic arms due to expire in 2021, the world could be left without any limits on the nuclear arsenals of nuclear states for the first time since 1972.” …

    “Russia has violated the agreement. They’ve been violating it for many years and I don’t know why President Obama didn’t negotiate or pull out,” Trump told reporters … What Trump did not mention is that the US has indeed been in violation of that agreement due to steps it began taking toward the development of a new ground-launched cruise missile last year. The US claims it began taking those steps due to Russian violations of the treaty with its own arsenal, while Russia claims the US has already been in violation of multiple arms control, nonproliferation, and disarmament agreements. …

    quite literally the single most important thing in the worldHotter, more impatient, more violent, more hawkish heads are prevailing over diplomacy and sensibility, potentially at the peril of the entire world should something unexpected go wrong as a result. This is of course coming after two years of Democratic Party loyalists attacking Trump on the basis that … he is Putin’s puppet. … those very same pundits are now reacting with horror that Putin’s puppet is now dangerously escalating tensions with Putin.

    this is just the latest escalation in a steadily escalating new cold war, and these blithering idiots didn’t shut the $#@! up at any of the other steps toward nuclear holocaust.
    - They didn’t shut the $#@! up after Trump’s capitulation to the longstanding neoconservative agenda to arm Ukraine against Russia.
    - They didn’t shut the $#@! up after Americans killed Russians in Syria as part of their regime change occupation of that country.
    - They didn’t shut the $#@! up when this administration adopted a Nuclear Posture Review with greatly increased aggression toward Russia and blurred lines between when nuclear strikes are and are not appropriate.
    - They didn’t shut the $#@! up when Trump started sending war ships into the Black Sea
    - They didn’t shut the $#@! up when this administration forced RT and Sputnik to register as foreign agents.
    - They didn’t shut the $#@! up when this administration helped expand NATO with the addition of Montenegro,
    - at the assigning of Russia hawk Kurt Volker as special representative to Ukraine,
    - at the shutting down of a Russian consulate in San Francisco and throwing out Russian diplomats in August of last year,
    - when Trump threw out dozens more diplomats in response to shaky claims about the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal, or
    Why would they shut the $#@! up now? …

    it’s time for everyone who helped advance this toxic, suicidal anti-Russia narrative to ask themselves one question: was it worth it? … to continually escalate tensions with a nuclear superpower and loudly screaming that he’s a Putin puppet whenever he takes a step toward de-escalation?
    Last edited by AZJoe; 10-21-2018 at 08:30 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Bolton is an insane psychopath. And Trump is the idiot that hired him.


    Caitlin Johnstone
    Lyrics: The time has come the Walrus said
    for us to bomb Iran
    Come on Mister Billionaire
    you are a bigly man
    Sign the order load the nukes
    and drop ‘em on Tehran
    Don’t let ‘em say that you are weak
    Show the world who’s got the biggest hands
    Come on dance with me you sexy thing
    Feel the rush that Armageddon brings
    So hit that button and let freedom ring
    ring ring ring yeah


    The Walrus and the Billionaire
    set out to start a war
    They brought along a Mad Dog
    and a press room fulla whores
    Holdin’ hands
    Clickin’ heels
    Skippin’ down that red brick road
    They laughed like kids on Christmas and got hard-ons
    as they filled the sky with drones
    We’ll kill the world and dance upon its bones
    And then my love we’ll finally be alone
    We’ll take the skulls and build ourselves a home
    home home home home home yeah


    Wasn’t cuddled by his mom
    His mind is made of cluster bombs
    But baby that mustache is flawless
    He’s the egg man he’s the Walrus


    Don’t be afraid of him
    The light is pourin’ in
    This time the humans win
    win win win yeah


    Evil mutant death walrus (repeat)
    (Johnstone/Foley)
    .....song keeps getting better with every replay.



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  20. #17
    Trump seems to straddle the liberty/neocon wing of the party. He seems to use them or pit them against each other for whatever purpose he has in mind. I notice he tends to keep both foreign allies and adversaries equally on edge so you never quite know what he will do.

    I respect his cunning. His foes in the Dem party do not recognize his cunning so they get played a lot.

    Respect aside, I do not fully trust Trump, because I don't know what his ultimate goal is. Does anyone have a guess?
    ...

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Trump seems to straddle the liberty/neocon wing of the party. He seems to use them or pit them against each other for whatever purpose he has in mind. I notice he tends to keep both foreign allies and adversaries equally on edge so you never quite know what he will do.

    I respect his cunning. His foes in the Dem party do not recognize his cunning so they get played a lot.

    Respect aside, I do not fully trust Trump, because I don't know what his ultimate goal is. Does anyone have a guess?
    I don't know but if his recent lower taxes, lower spending, socialism sucks free markets good, is any indication than maybe his ultimate goal is the words on his hat. Either that or he and Rand played Golf together and Rand won a bet or something..

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Trump seems to straddle the liberty/neocon wing of the party. He seems to use them or pit them against each other for whatever purpose he has in mind. I notice he tends to keep both foreign allies and adversaries equally on edge so you never quite know what he will do.

    I respect his cunning. His foes in the Dem party do not recognize his cunning so they get played a lot.

    Respect aside, I do not fully trust Trump, because I don't know what his ultimate goal is. Does anyone have a guess?
    My hope is that his plan is to take confrontation with Russia to the very brink of Armageddon and then when all the Russiagate lunatics scream make peace with Putin and have better relations with Russia.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20

  24. #21
    There ought to be millions... sad.


    USA: Hundreds take part in pacifist march on the Pentagon

    "We don't want an economy based on killing people."

    Medea Benjamin last month..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QQvok0ywng

    yesterday
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6yaD2fSPrE
    Last edited by goldenequity; 10-21-2018 at 06:32 PM.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    Trump seems to straddle the liberty/neocon wing of the party. He seems to use them or pit them against each other for whatever purpose he has in mind. I notice he tends to keep both foreign allies and adversaries equally on edge so you never quite know what he will do.

    I respect his cunning. His foes in the Dem party do not recognize his cunning so they get played a lot.

    Respect aside, I do not fully trust Trump, because I don't know what his ultimate goal is. Does anyone have a guess?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  26. #23
    U.S. President Donald Trump will listen to members of his administration before making a final decision on whether to withdraw from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty, U.S. Secretary of Defense James Mattis said, Tass reported Oct. 31.

    More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...ecision-mattis
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    The good doctor Rand Paul:

    I stand with SENATOR RAND PAUL once more!



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    I stand with SENATOR RAND PAUL once more!
    Ditto... the voice of reason.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    I stand with SENATOR RAND PAUL once more!
    AMEN.
    There is no spoon.

  31. #27
    Putin wants all nuclear-armed states, both official and unofficial, to take part in strategic stability talks
    PUTIN: I DEEM IT NECESSARY TO INVITE ALL COUNTRIES THAT HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS TO JOIN STRATEGIC STABILITY DISCUSSION, INCLUDING UNOFFICIALLY
    PUTIN: STRATEGIC STABILITY ISSUES SHOULD BE SUBJECT OF PUBLIC DEBATE WITH U.S., WE ARE PREPARED FOR THAT

    PUTIN: NO RESTRICTIONS ON STRATEGIC OFFENSIVE WEAPONS WILL REMAIN IN 2021
    PUTIN: WE DO NOT HAVE TO EXTEND NEW START, OUR DEFENSIVE SYSTEMS CAN PROTECT COUNTRY




    PUTIN ABOUT NOT RECEIVING INVITATION TO 75TH ANNIVERSARY OF D-DAY: WE DO NOT INVITE EVERYONE TO OUR EVENTS EITHER


    Interfax

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    Putin wants all nuclear-armed states, both official and unofficial, to take part in strategic stability talks
    PUTIN: I DEEM IT NECESSARY TO INVITE ALL COUNTRIES THAT HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS TO JOIN STRATEGIC STABILITY DISCUSSION, INCLUDING UNOFFICIALLY
    PUTIN: STRATEGIC STABILITY ISSUES SHOULD BE SUBJECT OF PUBLIC DEBATE WITH U.S., WE ARE PREPARED FOR THAT

    PUTIN: NO RESTRICTIONS ON STRATEGIC OFFENSIVE WEAPONS WILL REMAIN IN 2021
    PUTIN: WE DO NOT HAVE TO EXTEND NEW START, OUR DEFENSIVE SYSTEMS CAN PROTECT COUNTRY




    PUTIN ABOUT NOT RECEIVING INVITATION TO 75TH ANNIVERSARY OF D-DAY: WE DO NOT INVITE EVERYONE TO OUR EVENTS EITHER
    Interfax

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1136664032956616705

    "If no one feels like extending the agreement - New START - well, we won't do it then," Mr Putin said at an economic forum in Saint Petersburg,
    referring to the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, which caps the countries' number of nuclear warheads.

  33. #29
    oopsie
    Last edited by goldenequity; 06-06-2019 at 02:05 PM.

  34. #30

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