Murder Rate Drops to 33-Year Low

[r3volution 3.0]

Homicide stats are a bit iffy, since the number of homicides is supposed to fall simply because of advances in medicine. These days the general rule is that if you make it to the hospital alive, you'll survive, to a higher degree than before. You can have an increase in the overall level of violence and a decrease in homicides at the same time.

That's true, but that's not what's happened in this case.



And then there's property crime, which should be correlated with violent crime:

[Zippyjuan]

That's true, but that's not what's happened in this case.



And then there's property crime, which should be correlated with violent crime:

Must be due to all those rapists/ criminals/ murderers we have been importing.

[Krugminator2]

That's true, but that's not what's happened in this case.



And then there's property crime, which should be correlated with violent crime:

Notice how crime peaks in 1991. Roe v Wade was passed in 1973. Unpopular answer, but a lot of those kids who who would have entered their prime crime committing years were aborted.

[Zippyjuan]

Notice how crime peaks in 1991. Roe v Wade was passed in 1973. Unpopular answer, but a lot of those kids who who would have entered their prime crime committing years were aborted.

1991 was also the peak of the crack cocaine epidemic.

[Swordsmyth]

Louisiana is not a race

[Swordsmyth]

A few years ago LA doctors went on strike and the death rate went.....DOWN.

Did the trauma deaths go down?
Or was it just the iatrogenic deaths?

[Swordsmyth]

Must be due to all those rapists/ criminals/ murderers we have been importing.

Legal immigrants in general commit less crime, nobody is disputing that, they pull down the crime rate and combined with a drop in native crime that reduced the crime rate more than the illegals increased it.

[Krugminator2]

1991 was also the peak of the crack cocaine epidemic.

http://freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/a...d-you-believe/

He addresses crack pretty thoroughly in the middle of this post.

[phill4paul]

Must be due to all those rapists/ criminals/ murderers we have been importing.

Motte and Bailey.

[Kilrain]

That's true, but that's not what's happened in this case.



And then there's property crime, which should be correlated with violent crime:

I've learned to be wary about those kinds of stats as well. We've seen a pretty huge spike in reported violent crime for decades now, only to be told that violent crime is going down and that it's just people reporting more crimes. People seem to have a tendency to "massage" data to suit their agenda.



The line is number of reported "assaults", the bars show population level.

[r3volution 3.0]

I've learned to be wary about those kinds of stats as well. We've seen a pretty huge spike in reported violent crime for decades now, only to be told that violent crime is going down and that it's just people reporting more crimes. People seem to have a tendency to "massage" data to suit their agenda.



The line is number of reported "assaults", the bars show population level.

What's the source of that data?

[Kilrain]

What's the source of that data?

It's listed in the picture.

SCB: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_Sweden

BRÅ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedis...ime_Prevention

RSÅ: Not sure what that is.

[r3volution 3.0]

It's listed in the picture.

SCB: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_Sweden

BRÅ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedis...ime_Prevention

RSÅ: Not sure what that is.

We were talking about the US, not Sweden.

[Swordsmyth]

We were talking about the US, not Sweden.

And he was talking about lies, D@&^ LIES and statistics.

[Kilrain]

We were talking about the US, not Sweden.

Like Swordsmyth said, my point was more about relying on statistics in general. Geographical location is not all that relevant to that.

[r3volution 3.0]

Like Swordsmyth said, my point was more about relying on statistics in general. Geographical location is not all that relevant to that.

Well, my point was about the dramatically declining murder/violent-crime/property-crime rate in the US.

...to which crime data from another country is entirely irrelevant.

[Krugminator2]

Like Swordsmyth said, my point was more about relying on statistics in general. Geographical location is not all that relevant to that.

Except violent crime has gone up in Sweden and everyone acknowledges it. Who is telling you otherwise? Sweden has more rapes [er capita than any Western country by far. Also noteworthy is that even left leaning outlets attribute the rise in violent crime in Sweden to Muslim refugees.

https://www.politico.eu/article/swed...law-and-order/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/w...8C4E4C&gwt=pay
https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...tion-policies/

Whereas crime is falling in the US.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Notice how crime peaks in 1991. Roe v Wade was passed in 1973. Unpopular answer, but a lot of those kids who who would have entered their prime crime committing years were aborted.

Steven Pinker debunked the Freakonomics theory some years ago.

[Kilrain]

Except violent crime has gone up in Sweden and everyone acknowledges it. Who is telling you otherwise? Sweden has more rapes [er capita than any Western country by far. Also noteworthy is that even left leaning outlets attribute the rise in violent crime in Sweden to Muslim refugees.

https://www.politico.eu/article/swed...law-and-order/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/w...8C4E4C&gwt=pay
https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...tion-policies/

Whereas crime is falling in the US.

I'm sorry, I really wasn't trying to make this about Sweden - again. Again, my point was about statistics and their use/misuse.

And you'll hear "Violence is dropping", "Sweden has never been safer", etc., from all the usual suspects - governmental and non-governmental - in Sweden. Foreigners, even left-leaning foreigners, are better able to point out the obvious.

Please forgive my derail of the thread, it was unintended and I don't want to seem like a broken record.

[Danke]

I'm sorry, I really wasn't trying to make this about Sweden - again. Again, my point was about statistics and their use/misuse.

And you'll hear "Violence is dropping", "Sweden has never been safer", etc., from all the usual suspects - governmental and non-governmental - in Sweden. Foreigners, even left-leaning foreigners, are better able to point out the obvious.

Please forgive my derail of the thread, it was unintended and I don't want to seem like a broken record.

do you know “ the angey foreigner?”

[Kilrain]

do you know “ the angey foreigner?”

I've heard of him, watched a video or two of his a long time ago, but that's it.

[eleganz]

Hmmm...

A bunch of "libertarians" telling me that we need to let the illegals in. On the other hand, I'm getting emails from Ron Paul to support Chris McDaniels to outlaw Sanctuary cities. You don't need to outlaw sanctuary cities without illegal immigration.

Choose one already guys, jesus..

[Danke]

I've heard of him, watched a video or two of his a long time ago, but that's it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3KSJY0c8QWw

He has a lot of good videos on his channel, surprise he has not been banned yet.

[Zippyjuan]

Hmmm...

A bunch of "libertarians" telling me that we need to let the illegals in. On the other hand, I'm getting emails from Ron Paul to support Chris McDaniels to outlaw Sanctuary cities. You don't need to outlaw sanctuary cities without illegal immigration.

Choose one already guys, jesus..

What does Ron say?

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...forum-20120201

"I believe Hispanics have been used as scapegoats, to say, they're the problem instead of being a symptom maybe of a problem with the welfare state," Paul told the group. "In Nazi Germany they had to have scapegoats to blame and they turned on the Jews.

"Now there's a lot of antagonism and resentment turned just automatically on immigrants," he continued. "You say, no not immigrants, it's just illegal immigrants. I do believe in legal immigration. I want to have a provision to obey those laws. You have to understand this in the context of the economy."

Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.

[Anti Federalist]

Must be due to all those rapists/ criminals/ murderers we have been importing.

And all we had to do is enact a massive police/prison state to keep a lid on everything.

[pcosmar]

And all we had to do is enact a massive police/prison state to keep a lid on everything.

And then Down Town will be just like the Upper Yard.

[Zippyjuan]

And all we had to do is enact a massive police/prison state to keep a lid on everything.

People here argue for an even bigger police state to deal with immigrants. Small government libertarians? Only on certain issues.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/19/65789...igertown-texas

After ICE Raid, A Shortage Of Welders In Tigertown, Texas

With new enforcement priorities under the Trump administration, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents are taking aim at employers that knowingly hire unauthorized immigrants. The most recent — and largest — bust happened at a trailer manufacturing plant in northeast Texas.

Business had been booming at Load Trail LLC, about two hours northeast of Dallas, as customers bought the black trailers to haul hay bales, topsoil, construction refuse and oilfield equipment. Then came the ICE raid in late August.

Inside Load Trail's huge production building, welders turn raw steel into trailers, amid cacophonous clanging and showers of sparks. It's brutish labor — cut the heavy black metal, lug it into place, arc-weld it, repeat — but the production floor is nearly half-empty because of an acute shortage of welders.

Load Trail CEO Kevin Hiebert remembers the morning of Aug. 28, when a helicopter thumped overhead and 300 ICE agents swarmed into his yard. "It looked like something you would typically see in the movies," he said, "not something you ever planned on living out in real life."

ICE rounded up more than 150 employees — nearly a quarter of Hiebert's workforce — loaded them into buses and booked them for working in the country unlawfully. A criminal investigation of the company continues.

So far this year, ICE agents have stormed 7-Eleven stores, a meatpacking plant, dairy and vegetable farms and a feedlot.

The company may have to move to Mexico so they can get enough workers.

And back at Tigertown, some trailer manufacturers say that if they can't find enough welders, they would consider moving their entire operations to Mexico.

Perhaps the government should raid every business in the country and check the papers of all of their workers. We can't let anybody escape!

[Swordsmyth]

What does Ron say?

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...forum-20120201

Totally free immigration! I`ve never taken that position...Well, you work on both. The most important is the welfare state, but you can still beef up your borders and get rid of some incentives for illegals....Ron Paul


More at: http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-pa...al-sovereignty

Well, I start off with saying that it`s a big problem. I don`t like to get involved with the Federal Government very much, but I do think it is a federal responsibility to protect our borders....And that`s why I don`t think our border guards should be sent to Iraq, like we`ve done. I think we need more border guards. But to have the money and the personnel, we have to bring our troops home from Iraq. Ron Paul


More at: http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-pa...al-sovereignty

[Swordsmyth]

People here argue for an even bigger police state to deal with immigrants. Small government libertarians? Only on certain issues.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/19/65789...igertown-texas



The company may have to move to Mexico so they can get enough workers.




Perhaps the government should raid every business in the country and check the papers of all of their workers. We can't let anybody escape!

[Anti Globalist]

More guns equals less crime and murders? Who would have thought?