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Thread: Federal court rules state firearm laws invalid

  1. #1

    Thumbs down Federal court rules state firearm laws invalid

    Once again the feds trample individual rights and ignore the Constitution:


    WICHITA, Kan. (AP) — An appeals court on Tuesday upheld the firearms convictions against two Kansas men who mistakenly believed that a Kansas law can shield from federal prosecution anyone owning firearms made, sold and kept in the state.


    The 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected Shane Cox and Jeremy Kettler’s challenges to their federal convictions under the National Firearms Act.


    The three-judge panel did not address the constitutionality of the state’s Second Amendment Protection Act, which Kansas defended when intervening in the criminal case. The state gun law says firearms, accessories and ammunition manufactured and kept within Kansas borders are exempt from federal gun control.


    Cox was convicted of making and marketing unregistered firearms, and Kettler was convicted for possessing an unregistered gun silencer.


    The men challenged the constitutionality of the National Firearms Act, alleging it is an invalid exercise of congressional power and an invasion of the Second Amendment right to bear arms. They also challenged the lower court’s ruling that their reliance on the state law provided no defense to the federal charges.


    Separately, Kettler argued further that his prosecution resulted from the dispute between Kansas and the federal government over the Kansas law.


    The appeals court panel rejected all the defense arguments in a 47-page decision. It concluded the federal gun law falls within Congress’ power to tax. The court also noted that the men’s reliance on the state mitigated their sentences, if not their guilt. It noted the district court took their mistaken reliance on the state law into consideration when it sentenced them to probation.


    The appellate panel also rejected Kettler’s request for relief for what he described as being “ensnared in a constitutional dispute” between Kansas and the federal government.


    When Cox began selling his homemade firearms and silencers out of his military surplus store, he stamped “Made in Kansas” on them to assure buyers that a Kansas law would prevent federal prosecution of anyone owning firearms made, sold and kept in the state.


    Cox, a Chanute resident, also gave customers copies of the Second Amendment Protection Act, which was passed by the Kansas Legislature in 2013 and signed by then-Gov. Sam Brownback. Cox even collected sales taxes. His biggest-selling items were unregistered gun silencers, prosecutors have said. Kettler, who was one of Cox’s customers, was so enthusiastic about the silencer that he posted a video on Facebook.



    SOURCE:


    https://www.apnews.com/91541e86b9894...f0g-Z7N03qRq6Q
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  3. #2
    Unless state authorities protect their citizens through force of arms then this is what you get. These individuals are still being kept in the state. Wherever they are being detained the State Troopers, local Sheriff and as many as can be deputized should walk in and turn them free.
    But, that won't happen. And we know it.

  4. #3
    "It concluded the federal gun law falls within Congress' powe to tax."

    Interesting. They did not decide on the issue of federalism vis a vis the commerce clause. I take that as tacit acknowledgement that the states right argument is correct.

    I wonder what tortured logic they used to justify a tax as not being an infringement on the second amendment.
    I compiled a "brief" history of events since October 2008 that are defining the global currency war and the role that gold is playing:

    Tin Foil Hats, Economic Reality and the Total Perspective Vortex

    Also, have you contacted your Congressional Rep and asked them co-sponsor Ron Paul's Rep. Paul Broun Jr.'s HR 1098 77: Free Competition in Currencies Act?

  5. #4

  6. #5
    Gun Owners of America Funds Challenge to National Firearms Act in U.S. Supreme Court

    Written by Gun Owners of America Published: 15 January 2019

    (January 14, 2019) — Gun Owners of America (GOA) and its litigating arm, Gun Owners Foundation (GOF), today continued their defense of Jeremy Kettler, a disabled combat veteran, against a conviction for violating the National Firearms Act.

    Read GOA’s petition for certiorari before the U.S. Supreme Court.

    The Obama Justice Department brought criminal felony charges against Jeremy for illegally possessing an unregistered firearm suppressor under the authority of the Kansas “Second Amendment Protection Act.”



    The Kansas statute declares that any suppressor manufactured, possessed, and used within the borders of Kansas is exempt from federal law. Relying on that Kansas law, in 2014 Jeremy purchased a suppressor from a local military surplus store, but did not register it with ATF pursuant to the National Firearms Act (NFA).

    Believing he was following the law, Jeremy posted a video about his new suppressor on Facebook, and ATF swooped in. Rather than simply requiring Jeremy to register his suppressor, the feds instead chose felony prosecution — to make an example of Jeremy, and to intimidate all who resist federal power over guns. Jeremy was indicted, and convicted of possessing an unregistered silencer, and now this veteran is a federal felon.

    GOA and GOF have stood with Jeremy, both in his appeal to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, and now in the U.S. Supreme Court.

    Today GOA and GOF lawyers, representing Jeremy, filed a petition for a writ of certiorari in the U.S. Supreme Court, asking the Court to hear Jeremy’s case. The petition challenges the decision of the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, which rejected Jeremy’s appeal from the district court.

    Jeremy’s petition first challenges the legitimacy of the National Firearms Act, which was passed in 1934, and thereafter upheld by the Supreme Court in 1937 under the constitutional power of Congress to “lay and collect taxes.” The petition argues that the NFA as it exists today no longer can be justified as a so-called “tax.”

    In fact, each of the reasons the Supreme Court gave in 1937, finding it to be a tax, no longer apply today, 82 years later. Rather, the NFA has become what Justice Frankfurter once described as regulation “wrapped … in the verbal cellophane of a revenue measure” — an unabashed gun control regulatory scheme, designed not to raise revenue for the federal government, but instead to keep NFA items out of the hands of Americans.

    Next, Jeremy’s petition challenges the Tenth Circuit’s absurd holding that the Second Amendment applies only to “bearable arms” — but not firearm accessories, such as suppressors. The petition points out that the Second, Third, Seventh, and Ninth Circuits all have concluded that the Second Amendment extends beyond actual firearms to ammunition, magazines, the ability to purchase firearms in gun stores, and the right to practice at shooting ranges.

    Finally, Jeremy’s petition argues that, if the Supreme Court continues to uphold the NFA as a “tax,” then it is allowing Congress to impose a tax on a constitutionally-protected right — something which the Supreme Court has long said to be unconstitutional.

    Prior to the confirmation of Justice Kavanaugh in October of last year, the Supreme Court had refused to hear numerous firearms cases, leading some members of the Court to comment on the “distressing trend” — “the treatment of the Second Amendment as a disfavored right.”

    While some do not seem to mind ATF’s regulation of weapons covered by the National Firearms Act, GOA and GOF have stood for the right to own “bearable arms” of all types, and firearms accessories as well — including suppressors and machineguns.

    Continues, you can read GOA’s petition for certiorari before the U.S. Supreme Court and donate to the case at https://gunowners.org/gun-owners-of-...supreme-court/
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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Gun Owners of America Funds Challenge to National Firearms Act in U.S. Supreme Court

    Written by Gun Owners of America Published: 15 January 2019

    (January 14, 2019) — Gun Owners of America (GOA) and its litigating arm, Gun Owners Foundation (GOF), today continued their defense of Jeremy Kettler, a disabled combat veteran, against a conviction for violating the National Firearms Act.

    Read GOA’s petition for certiorari before the U.S. Supreme Court.

    The Obama Justice Department brought criminal felony charges against Jeremy for illegally possessing an unregistered firearm suppressor under the authority of the Kansas “Second Amendment Protection Act.”



    The Kansas statute declares that any suppressor manufactured, possessed, and used within the borders of Kansas is exempt from federal law. Relying on that Kansas law, in 2014 Jeremy purchased a suppressor from a local military surplus store, but did not register it with ATF pursuant to the National Firearms Act (NFA).

    Believing he was following the law, Jeremy posted a video about his new suppressor on Facebook, and ATF swooped in. Rather than simply requiring Jeremy to register his suppressor, the feds instead chose felony prosecution — to make an example of Jeremy, and to intimidate all who resist federal power over guns. Jeremy was indicted, and convicted of possessing an unregistered silencer, and now this veteran is a federal felon.

    GOA and GOF have stood with Jeremy, both in his appeal to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, and now in the U.S. Supreme Court.

    Today GOA and GOF lawyers, representing Jeremy, filed a petition for a writ of certiorari in the U.S. Supreme Court, asking the Court to hear Jeremy’s case. The petition challenges the decision of the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit, which rejected Jeremy’s appeal from the district court.

    Jeremy’s petition first challenges the legitimacy of the National Firearms Act, which was passed in 1934, and thereafter upheld by the Supreme Court in 1937 under the constitutional power of Congress to “lay and collect taxes.” The petition argues that the NFA as it exists today no longer can be justified as a so-called “tax.”

    In fact, each of the reasons the Supreme Court gave in 1937, finding it to be a tax, no longer apply today, 82 years later. Rather, the NFA has become what Justice Frankfurter once described as regulation “wrapped … in the verbal cellophane of a revenue measure” — an unabashed gun control regulatory scheme, designed not to raise revenue for the federal government, but instead to keep NFA items out of the hands of Americans.

    Next, Jeremy’s petition challenges the Tenth Circuit’s absurd holding that the Second Amendment applies only to “bearable arms” — but not firearm accessories, such as suppressors. The petition points out that the Second, Third, Seventh, and Ninth Circuits all have concluded that the Second Amendment extends beyond actual firearms to ammunition, magazines, the ability to purchase firearms in gun stores, and the right to practice at shooting ranges.

    Finally, Jeremy’s petition argues that, if the Supreme Court continues to uphold the NFA as a “tax,” then it is allowing Congress to impose a tax on a constitutionally-protected right — something which the Supreme Court has long said to be unconstitutional.

    Prior to the confirmation of Justice Kavanaugh in October of last year, the Supreme Court had refused to hear numerous firearms cases, leading some members of the Court to comment on the “distressing trend” — “the treatment of the Second Amendment as a disfavored right.”

    While some do not seem to mind ATF’s regulation of weapons covered by the National Firearms Act, GOA and GOF have stood for the right to own “bearable arms” of all types, and firearms accessories as well — including suppressors and machineguns.

    Continues, you can read GOA’s petition for certiorari before the U.S. Supreme Court and donate to the case at https://gunowners.org/gun-owners-of-...supreme-court/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    I oppose silencers 100% , but I resent the feds under 'color of law' pretending to have
    jurisdiction or authority over State's rights.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    I oppose silencers 100%
    What?

    There is no logical reason to oppose silencers.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    I oppose silencers 100% , but I resent the feds under 'color of law' pretending to have
    jurisdiction or authority over State's rights.
    The correct term is suppressor. Nothing makes a gun silent except 2nd Amendment violations.

    If you lived where I do you would not feel this way. We are rural, but not spread out so much in our community. Most everyone here has guns and practice on our property. The sound carries. So much so that with about 80% accuracy I can tell which neighbor is shooting and which gun he is shooting with. Firearms fire scares livestock and pets.

    There is nothing wrong with suppressors.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What?

    There is no logical reason to oppose silencers.
    I love weapons and I love silencers, but in the wrong hands , which
    would be many and varied, they are licenses to anonymously murder.
    When someone is killed with a firearm, I appreciate a loud noise,
    I don't see it as a lot to ask.
    There are ways of deadening the noise without a 'silencer' but most
    thugs aren't that smart, if they could buy silencers the
    intelligence barrier is broken.
    Ear protection is one of the arguments proponents use for the justification
    of silencers, I get it, but, well I've got ear plugs, a small price to pay.

    Point two;
    This imv has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment and opponents will
    use this 'effectively' to disarm us, that opens us up to a much more
    important issue ; genocide , agenda 21, Globalism.

    We are building a Trojan Horse here, much bigger fry to catch.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    I love weapons and I love silencers, but in the wrong hands , which
    would be many and varied, they are licenses to anonymously murder.
    When someone is killed with a firearm, I appreciate a loud noise,
    I don't see it as a lot to ask.
    There are ways of deadening the noise without a 'silencer' but most
    thugs aren't that smart, if they could buy silencers the
    intelligence barrier is broken.
    Ear protection is one of the arguments proponents use for the justification
    of silencers, I get it, but, well I've got ear plugs, a small price to pay.

    Point two;
    This imv has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment and opponents will
    use this 'effectively' to disarm us, that opens us up to a much more
    important issue ; genocide , agenda 21, Globalism.

    We are building a Trojan Horse here, much bigger fry to catch.
    Thus ever the call for more gun control laws of every statist that wishes to abridge the 2nd Amendment.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    I love weapons and I love silencers, but in the wrong hands , which
    would be many and varied, they are licenses to anonymously murder.
    When someone is killed with a firearm, I appreciate a loud noise,
    I don't see it as a lot to ask.
    There are ways of deadening the noise without a 'silencer' but most
    thugs aren't that smart, if they could buy silencers the
    intelligence barrier is broken.
    Ear protection is one of the arguments proponents use for the justification
    of silencers, I get it, but, well I've got ear plugs, a small price to pay.

    Point two;
    This imv has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment and opponents will
    use this 'effectively' to disarm us, that opens us up to a much more
    important issue ; genocide , agenda 21, Globalism.

    We are building a Trojan Horse here, much bigger fry to catch.
    You could make the same argument about guns as you make about silencers and there are many ways to silently murder someone, if you just don't like suppressors they we don't really have a problem but if you would ever under any circumstance want any level of government to outlaw them then we do.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    The correct term is suppressor. Nothing makes a gun silent except 2nd Amendment violations.

    If you lived where I do you would not feel this way. We are rural, but not spread out so much in our community. Most everyone here has guns and practice on our property. The sound carries. So much so that with about 80% accuracy I can tell which neighbor is shooting and which gun he is shooting with. Firearms fire scares livestock and pets.

    There is nothing wrong with suppressors.
    Thank you for the correct 'term' the article used the term silencer, I fully understand what today's 'term' is,
    and if you go back before 1990 or so you will see the term silencer, right or wrong today, that's
    what they were called, semantics, revisionism, euphemisms.
    I'm rural.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Thank you for the correct 'term' the article used the term silencer, I fully understand what today's 'term' is,
    and if you go back before 1990 or so you will see the term silencer, right or wrong today, that's
    what they were called, semantics, revisionism, euphemisms.
    I'm rural.
    You only play at semantics without addressing my points.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Thus ever the call for more gun control laws of every statist that wishes to abridge the 2nd Amendment.
    lol
    I had a hunch you would use this against my argument when I wrote it but wasn't
    convinced that you would go there.
    The big picture hasn't sht to do with Silencers, it has to do with the right to bear arms , we have
    never been allowed to have silencers, this is the red herring the gun grabbers have all
    been waiting for , a huge distraction and tool they will use to round up our weapons.
    And as for swordsmyth , yes I stated that there are ways to kill without noise.

    I find it very disturbing that either of you would latch on to this micro issue and equate it with the
    right to bear arms, as a key point in the 'Grave importance' of our right to keep rogue government
    at bay, because my friends that is the big picture.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    You only play at semantics without addressing my points.
    No Phil , it was you that made the 'semantic' argument, I just corrected you.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    No Phil , it was you that made the 'semantic' argument, I just corrected you.
    Still haven't addressed the core of the post.

    Edit: Didn't see the post above. Will address the core shortly.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    Thank you for the correct 'term' the article used the term silencer, I fully understand what today's 'term' is,
    and if you go back before 1990 or so you will see the term silencer, right or wrong today, that's
    what they were called, semantics, revisionism, euphemisms.
    I'm rural.
    I've found that the fight for gun owners rights has been a battle that is rooted in the semantics of words.

    "Assault Weapon"
    "High Capacity Magazines/Clips"
    "Shoulder thingie that goes up"

    Since the facts do not support the gun grabber case, they will choose emotional triggers, and prey on the uneducated. You and I are in agreement on the annoyance of such semantics, but its how they play the game. Infighting between folks who essentially agree on the same cause is just the cherry on top for the gun grabbers.

    Call things what you wish - my only intention is to make humble mention of the company you may inadvertently be keeping by choosing certain words.

    Its a dumb game, but its how they play.

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    lol
    I had a hunch you would use this against my argument when I wrote it but wasn't
    convinced that you would go there.
    The big picture hasn't sht to do with Silencers, it has to do with the right to bear arms , we have
    never been allowed to have silencers,
    this is the red herring the gun grabbers have all
    been waiting for , a huge distraction and tool they will use to round up our weapons.
    And as for swordsmyth , yes I stated that there are ways to kill without noise.

    I find it very disturbing that either of you would latch on to this micro issue and equate it with the
    right to bear arms, as a key point in the 'Grave importance' of our right to keep rogue government
    at bay, because my friends that is the big picture.
    Catch up on your history and get back to me on this.

    Edit: And I do concede your point on the terminology. As I described it is how it was taught to me.
    Last edited by phill4paul; 02-19-2019 at 08:05 PM.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    lol
    I had a hunch you would use this against my argument when I wrote it but wasn't
    convinced that you would go there.
    The big picture hasn't sht to do with Silencers, it has to do with the right to bear arms , we have
    never been allowed to have silencers, this is the red herring the gun grabbers have all
    been waiting for , a huge distraction and tool they will use to round up our weapons.
    And as for swordsmyth , yes I stated that there are ways to kill without noise.

    I find it very disturbing that either of you would latch on to this micro issue and equate it with the
    right to bear arms, as a key point in the 'Grave importance' of our right to keep rogue government
    at bay, because my friends that is the big picture.
    If they can ban suppressors they can ban anything else and they didn't used to be banned.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    lol
    I had a hunch you would use this against my argument when I wrote it but wasn't
    convinced that you would go there.
    The big picture hasn't sht to do with Silencers, it has to do with the right to bear arms , we have
    never been allowed to have silencers, this is the red herring the gun grabbers have all
    been waiting for , a huge distraction and tool they will use to round up our weapons.
    And as for swordsmyth , yes I stated that there are ways to kill without noise.

    I find it very disturbing that either of you would latch on to this micro issue and equate it with the
    right to bear arms, as a key point in the 'Grave importance' of our right to keep rogue government
    at bay, because my friends that is the big picture.
    If I invented an 'silent' bullet, should the government deny me the right to own one?

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Catch up on your history and get back to me on this.

    Edit: And I do concede your point on the terminology. As I described it is how it was taught to me.
    Did you have a chance to catch up? Silencers, nod to your correct terminology, were entirely legal from 1909 until 1934. What happened in 1934? That one egregious period in time in which an act of Congress stripped away the Second Amendment. That's what happened. And the silencer and machine guns and short barreled shotguns and all the other crap that stripped away the rights of citizens to be on equal footing with the military squad that the Federal Government re-funds year after year despite warnings from the family of having a permanent Army.
    Silencers, and the regulation thereof, are intricately tied into the demise of the 2nd Amendment.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Did you have a chance to catch up? Silencers, nod to your correct terminology, were entirely legal from 1909 until 1934. What happened in 1934? That one egregious period in time in which an act of Congress stripped away the Second Amendment. That's what happened. And the silencer and machine guns and short barreled shotguns and all the other crap that stripped away the rights of citizens to be on equal footing with the military squad that the Federal Government re-funds year after year despite warnings from the family of having a permanent Army.
    Silencers, and the regulation thereof, are intricately tied into the demise of the 2nd Amendment.
    No Phil, I didn't do my 'homework' / 'research' ,
    I'm not focusing on the fact that
    as you say , 100 years ago they stripped our silencer right away,
    though that is an interesting piece of history, thanks for posting
    it.

    My comments on this issue are from life experience , since the 60's ,
    and likely as far back as the 40's , no one in their right mind in general society
    would have thought they could legally use/posses silencers.
    My concern is that of; where we are today, what can we do to
    stop further erosion of the 2nd amendment.

    Promoting and bringing silencers live is not where our energy should focus.
    Silencers were always considered an assassin's tool, did we all want one,
    hell yea what a cool way to target shoot etc.
    Other ways of killing quietly?;
    Sure, you can sneak up on someone and silently kill them
    with a butter knife, a spoon , or a hammer, garrote, but you can
    do so much more without getting blood on your clothes
    or needing to get close and personal , and putting
    yourself at 'risk' if you are there with a silencer, .
    clean , anonymous.

    With a Silencer;
    No one needs to know what you did for up to hours/days or months.
    The term suppressor in general society is a fairly modern term, my guess is that it
    was borrowed from 'flash suppressor' nomenclature, possibly by accident,
    but it stuck, and in the literal sense 'suppression' is more accurately
    what they are, still 'suppressor' is somewhat of a euphemism today imv.
    Silencers aren't silent, most people understand that, but the
    noise reduction is enough to give a murderer anonymity , in practical scenarios.
    The silencer issue as a splinter issue, the core issue is not
    adding legal accessories to our weapons, rather preserving what we have,
    stopping them from demonizing and banning bump stock/semi auto/
    magazine capacities, registration , sales restrictions, etc.

    Big Picture;
    Preserving an armed population, to prevent the death of the first
    amendment which is only in place because we are still armed.
    Prevent genocide which never occurs until all our weapons are registered,
    then confiscated.

    Tiny Picture;
    Adding a new accessory 'right' that will add to the
    fuel of the left's arguments to take our weapons away.
    This accessory is valuable to the left in that respect, it is just
    what they need, the final 'nail' ......
    I'm already being redundant so from here out I think I'll just leave it
    at that.
    And just so you know , I've written thousands of pro 2nd amendment
    rants since 2002, I will paste a couple here if I can dig up copies that I
    have saved , youtube stripped me of all my posts during the purge,
    where most of them resided.
    =============================

    Some posts that I saved, nothing special here, just
    some quick mini rants I found, the links won't work
    due to the purge, but do show where they were posted.
    Nothing is particulary edited either, they are close to
    'live chats' :
    New reply on "Thank God Alex isn't backpedaling for Trump's
    turning his back 00:45:00 on the 2nd amendment, the issue
    should be ending BIG PHARMA DRUGGING of our youth,
    and enforcing already existing laws, as well as investigating
    the FBI for ignoring youths that threaten to attack schools.
    The media makes big stars out of all shooters, they cover it
    so much that society begins to think it is acceptable to kill
    people when 'you' get angry or aren't getting your way."
    -------------------------------------------------
    Govts kill Millions of times more innocent people than all the civilian caused
    deaths throughout all of human history, the single most important task that all
    civilians have is to prevent their own and foreign govts/entities ( read NATO)
    from democide/genocide, wholesale slaughter of you , your sons and
    daughters as well your pets, and subsequent acquisition of all your wealth
    and belongings that you worked a lifetime for.
    2nd Amendment , "...Right to Bear Arms Shall not be infringed" our
    forefathers knew from experience how vitally important that
    right is/was.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZ4nSPwzNA
    --------------------------------------------------
    New reply on "Thank God Alex isn't backpedaling for Trump's
    turning his back 00:45:00 on the 2nd amendment, the issue
    should be ending BIG PHARMA DRUGGING of our youth,
    and enforcing already existing laws, as well as investigating
    the FBI for ignoring youths that threaten to attack schools.
    The media makes big stars out of all shooters, they cover it
    so much that society begins to think it is acceptable to kill
    people when 'you' get angry or aren't getting your way."
    -------------------------------------------------
    Govts kill Millions of times more innocent people than all the civilian caused
    deaths throughout all of human history, the single most important task that all
    civilians have is to prevent their own and foreign govts/entities ( read NATO)
    from democide/genocide, wholesale slaughter of you , your sons and
    daughters as well your pets, and subsequent acquisition of all your wealth
    and belongings that you worked a lifetime for.
    2nd Amendment , "...Right to Bear Arms Shall not be infringed" our
    forefathers knew from experience how vitally important that
    right is/was.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZ4nSPwzNA
    ------------------------------------------------
    2nd Amendment wasn't really written with women particularly in mind*, but
    does anyone ever find it very creepy that liberals want women completely
    HELPLESS.......and they are so pro women's rights;;;;;;;;;???
    * I say that 'not in mind' because back in the day , it was very obvious,
    that the man was primarily in charge of that sort of thing, but today, a woman
    probably has a hell of a lot more exposure to attack then days of old.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ00wtium0I

    When the military and law enforcement turn in their weapons, I will too, until then piss up a rope....We are a country with a Constitution that was an inspired work.
    I suppose the idiots that don't believe in the 2nd amendment think women, or handicapped, or elderly should be stronger and bigger than thugs.
    They don't deserve to defend themselves if they aren't
    kung foo experts or pro cage fighters?
    99% or the time law enforcement is going to be at your side just
    in time to zip you into a body bag, they can't be everywhere all the time, they will never be able to prevent violent crime, an
    armed citizenry does and can.
    The biggest cause of homicide in human history is always governments, and genocide never occurs while the citizens are well
    armed, arms are registered and rounded up first,
    a rogue government is never routed through petition .
    Citizens are never protected from any source , be it criminals or
    tyrannical governments, through kind words and peaceful rhetoric.
    Gun grabbing pc liberal pussies can kiss my ash...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-oJBnbaTvA

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarious View Post
    No Phil, I didn't do my 'homework' / 'research' ,
    I'm not focusing on the fact that
    as you say , 100 years ago they stripped our silencer right away,
    though that is an interesting piece of history, thanks for posting
    it.

    My comments on this issue are from life experience , since the 60's ,
    and likely as far back as the 40's , no one in their right mind in general society
    would have thought they could legally use/posses silencers.
    My concern is that of; where we are today, what can we do to
    stop further erosion of the 2nd amendment.

    Promoting and bringing silencers live is not where our energy should focus.
    Silencers were always considered an assassin's tool, did we all want one,
    hell yea what a cool way to target shoot etc.
    Other ways of killing quietly?;
    Sure, you can sneak up on someone and silently kill them
    with a butter knife, a spoon , or a hammer, garrote, but you can
    do so much more without getting blood on your clothes
    or needing to get close and personal , and putting
    yourself at 'risk' if you are there with a silencer, .
    clean , anonymous.

    With a Silencer;
    No one needs to know what you did for up to hours/days or months.
    The term suppressor in general society is a fairly modern term, my guess is that it
    was borrowed from 'flash suppressor' nomenclature, possibly by accident,
    but it stuck, and in the literal sense 'suppression' is more accurately
    what they are, still 'suppressor' is somewhat of a euphemism today imv.
    Silencers aren't silent, most people understand that, but the
    noise reduction is enough to give a murderer anonymity , in practical scenarios.
    The silencer issue as a splinter issue, the core issue is not
    adding legal accessories to our weapons, rather preserving what we have,
    stopping them from demonizing and banning bump stock/semi auto/
    magazine capacities, registration , sales restrictions, etc.

    Big Picture;
    Preserving an armed population, to prevent the death of the first
    amendment which is only in place because we are still armed.
    Prevent genocide which never occurs until all our weapons are registered,
    then confiscated.

    Tiny Picture;
    Adding a new accessory 'right' that will add to the
    fuel of the left's arguments to take our weapons away.
    This accessory is valuable to the left in that respect, it is just
    what they need, the final 'nail' ......
    I'm already being redundant so from here out I think I'll just leave it
    at that.
    And just so you know , I've written thousands of pro 2nd amendment
    rants since 2002, I will paste a couple here if I can dig up copies that I
    have saved , youtube stripped me of all my posts during the purge,
    where most of them resided.
    =============================



    New reply on "Thank God Alex isn't backpedaling for Trump's
    turning his back 00:45:00 on the 2nd amendment, the issue
    should be ending BIG PHARMA DRUGGING of our youth,
    and enforcing already existing laws, as well as investigating
    the FBI for ignoring youths that threaten to attack schools.
    The media makes big stars out of all shooters, they cover it
    so much that society begins to think it is acceptable to kill
    people when 'you' get angry or aren't getting your way."
    -------------------------------------------------
    Govts kill Millions of times more innocent people than all the civilian caused
    deaths throughout all of human history, the single most important task that all
    civilians have is to prevent their own and foreign govts/entities ( read NATO)
    from democide/genocide, wholesale slaughter of you , your sons and
    daughters as well your pets, and subsequent acquisition of all your wealth
    and belongings that you worked a lifetime for.
    2nd Amendment , "...Right to Bear Arms Shall not be infringed" our
    forefathers knew from experience how vitally important that
    right is/was.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZ4nSPwzNA
    --------------------------------------------------
    New reply on "Thank God Alex isn't backpedaling for Trump's
    turning his back 00:45:00 on the 2nd amendment, the issue
    should be ending BIG PHARMA DRUGGING of our youth,
    and enforcing already existing laws, as well as investigating
    the FBI for ignoring youths that threaten to attack schools.
    The media makes big stars out of all shooters, they cover it
    so much that society begins to think it is acceptable to kill
    people when 'you' get angry or aren't getting your way."
    -------------------------------------------------
    Govts kill Millions of times more innocent people than all the civilian caused
    deaths throughout all of human history, the single most important task that all
    civilians have is to prevent their own and foreign govts/entities ( read NATO)
    from democide/genocide, wholesale slaughter of you , your sons and
    daughters as well your pets, and subsequent acquisition of all your wealth
    and belongings that you worked a lifetime for.
    2nd Amendment , "...Right to Bear Arms Shall not be infringed" our
    forefathers knew from experience how vitally important that
    right is/was.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZ4nSPwzNA
    ------------------------------------------------
    2nd Amendment wasn't really written with women particularly in mind*, but
    does anyone ever find it very creepy that liberals want women completely
    HELPLESS.......and they are so pro women's rights;;;;;;;;;???
    * I say that 'not in mind' because back in the day , it was very obvious,
    that the man was primarily in charge of that sort of thing, but today, a woman
    probably has a hell of a lot more exposure to attack then days of old.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ00wtium0I

    When the military and law enforcement turn in their weapons, I will too, until then piss up a rope....We are a country with a Constitution that was an inspired work.
    I suppose the idiots that don't believe in the 2nd amendment think women, or handicapped, or elderly should be stronger and bigger than thugs.
    They don't deserve to defend themselves if they aren't
    kung foo experts or pro cage fighters?
    99% or the time law enforcement is going to be at your side just
    in time to zip you into a body bag, they can't be everywhere all the time, they will never be able to prevent violent crime, an
    armed citizenry does and can.
    The biggest cause of homicide in human history is always governments, and genocide never occurs while the citizens are well
    armed, arms are registered and rounded up first,
    a rogue government is never routed through petition .
    Citizens are never protected from any source , be it criminals or
    tyrannical governments, through kind words and peaceful rhetoric.
    Gun grabbing pc liberal pussies can kiss my ash...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-oJBnbaTvA
    The best way to avoid losing ground is to attack and take more.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    @Swordsmyth

    I'm shocked! Is it just this topic? Or have you taken a new change of heart as of very recent?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    @Swordsmyth

    I'm shocked! Is it just this topic? Or have you taken a new change of heart as of very recent?


    That is always my attitude when it is possible, I want to take America for freedom instead of surrendering it to the invading hordes.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post


    That is always my attitude when it is possible, I want to take America for freedom instead of surrendering it to the invading hordes.
    You blew it, I had my hopes up.

    I'm still reading through that "emergency" spending bill +/- few hundred more pages. What you think about it?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You blew it, I had my hopes up.


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I'm still reading through that "emergency" spending bill +/- few hundred more pages. What you think about it?
    I don't like it but Congress was going to pass it over a veto anyway.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post



    I don't like it but Congress was going to pass it over a veto anyway.

    Aw, thanks for the heart. Does that mean you support that Global lgbtq initiative?

    So, what you are saying is, trump gets a pass for demanding it, because if he didn't, they would have passed it anyway?

    I'm confused now. Did trump like it and demanded it? Or did he not like it and demanded it?

    Serious question... what parts did you not like?
    “The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.”

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Aw, thanks for the heart. Does that mean you support that Global lgbtq initiative?


    I guess I should have used a after that broken heart but I thought it was obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    So, what you are saying is, trump gets a pass for demanding it, because if he didn't, they would have passed it anyway?

    I'm confused now. Did trump like it and demanded it? Or did he not like it and demanded it?

    Serious question... what parts did you not like?
    He demanded funds for the wall, he did not demand the rest of what was in the bill.
    The wall is not my preferred method of securing the border but it is better than doing nothing.
    Almost everything else in the bill was terrible.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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