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Thread: Lindsey Graham: He won't work with Saudi Arabia so long as MbS is Crown Prince

  1. #1

    Lindsey Graham: He won't work with Saudi Arabia so long as MbS is Crown Prince

    Lindsey Graham says he will not work with Saudi Arabia so long as Mohammed Bin Salman is Crown Prince
    BREAKING: US Senator Lindsey Graham says Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince is 'toxic' and 'must go'
    BREAKING: US Senator Lindsey Graham says he wants to 'sanction the hell out of Saudi Arabia'

    Lindsey Graham says Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman 'has got to go'
    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/10/16/...got-to-go.html

    'He Had This Guy Murdered': Graham Says 'Toxic' Saudi Crown Prince 'Has Got to Go'
    http://insider.foxnews.com/amp/article/63687
    Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said on "Fox & Friends" Tuesday he does not believe that the disappearance of writer Jamal Khashoggi in Turkey could have occurred without the knowledge of Saudi ...

    Sen. Lindsey Graham says Saudi crown prince had Khashoggi 'murdered'
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna920626

    Senator Lindsey Graham: This Is Not Rogue Killers, This Is A Rogue Crown Prince
    https://radio.foxnews.com/2018/10/16...wn-prince/amp/






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  3. #2
    BE SURE his new saudi 'position' has NOTHING whatsoever to do with moral outrage. He's incapable.
    all the globalist/criminal network players are starting to line up...
    hell even Dick Cheney (Bush VP) and John Brennan (former NSA chief/Obama) are feigning 'outrage'..
    totally staged for 'effect'...
    imo they have a 'plan': Global Chaos. Destabilized Oil market.
    Neocons will get 'fat' from it.
    Last edited by goldenequity; 10-16-2018 at 12:12 PM.

  4. #3
    Another neocon Regime Change project in progress, Make Saudi Arabia Great Again. MBS must go, or at least double the bribes..


    Last edited by RonZeplin; 10-16-2018 at 12:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
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  5. #4
    Did Trump use MBS to dismantle Hillary's support and now, when he doesn't need him anymore, wants to get rid of him? Or is it another play against the deep state we know nothing about?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    BE SURE his new saudi 'position' has NOTHING whatsoever to do with moral outrage. He's incapable.
    all the globalist/criminal network players are starting to line up...
    hell even Dick Cheney (Bush VP) and John Brennan (former NSA chief/Obama) are feigning 'outrage'..
    totally staged for 'effect'...
    imo they have a 'plan': Global Chaos. Destabilized Oil market.
    Neocons will get 'fat' from it.
    Yeah, kinda makes ya wonder.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  7. #6

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    BE SURE his new saudi 'position' has NOTHING whatsoever to do with moral outrage. He's incapable.
    all the globalist/criminal network players are starting to line up...
    hell even Dick Cheney (Bush VP) and John Brennan (former NSA chief/Obama) are feigning 'outrage'..
    totally staged for 'effect'...
    imo they have a 'plan': Global Chaos. Destabilized Oil market.
    Neocons will get 'fat' from it.
    Quote Originally Posted by FSP-Rebel View Post
    Deep state false flag.
    So what you both seem to be saying is that MbS planned this assassination to happen, possibly with the suggestion of "deep state" operatives in the Saudi gov; and he wasn't stopped because the CIA, Turks, other intelligence agencies knew it was going to happen; let it happen in a hopeful plot that MbS will be removed.

  9. #8
    Well somebody isn't trying to hide what his intentions are.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge



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  11. #9
    sa can add another name to 911

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by homahr View Post
    So what you both seem to be saying is that MbS planned this assassination to happen, possibly with the suggestion of "deep state" operatives in the Saudi gov; and he wasn't stopped because the CIA, Turks, other intelligence agencies knew it was going to happen; let it happen in a hopeful plot that MbS will be removed.
    something like that... not so much 'planning' imo.. just opportunism by the 'big' thinkers..
    and yeah MbS is basically a spoiled psychopathic moron who definitely set all this in motion
    with neither a care nor a clue as to the potential blowback.
    This will just be something more like 'amusement' for people like Graham
    who wants it all to crash on Trump's head.
    He's TRIGGERING MbS on purpose to get him angry and butthurt.

  13. #11
    You live by the morals/principles, you die by morals/principles. I really hate agreeing with Lindsey $#@!ing Graham, but he is right on this issue.

    (Lebowsky give a $#@! about the rules.gif)

  14. #12

  15. #13
    Hmm, neocons freaking out about MBS killing their friend Khashoggi. Apparently they have found that MBS is not sufficiently under their control, in addition to him being too close to Trump via Kushner. They can’t have that.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by FSP-Rebel View Post
    Deep state false flag.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Hmm, neocons freaking out about MBS killing their friend Khashoggi. Apparently they have found that MBS is not sufficiently under their control, in addition to him being too close to Trump via Kushner. They can’t have that.
    Dunno what happened, but this makes sense.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
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  17. #15
    Mohammed bin Salman’s Gruesome Crime

    Posted By Daniel Larison On October 17, 2018

    The Wall Street Journal reports [1] on the most recent details from Turkish authorities about the grisly murder of Jamal Khashoggi:

    The recording indicates how Mr. Khashoggi was killed in the office of the Saudi consul general, Mohammad al-Otaibi, minutes after he walked into the consulate building on Oct. 2, said people familiar with the matter. Mr. Khashoggi wasn’t interrogated, the people said. Instead, he was beaten up, drugged and killed by Saudi operatives who had flown in from Riyadh earlier in the day, the people said.

    Then, on the recording, a voice can be heard inviting the consul to leave the room, the people familiar with the matter said. The voice of a man Turkish authorities identified as Saudi forensic specialist Salah Al Tabiqi can be heard recommending other people present to listen to some music while he dismembered Mr. Khashoggi’s body, the people said.

    The details of the crime are horrifying and gruesome, but they are important for establishing the nature of the crime committed against Mr. Khashoggi and the intent behind it. There is now not much doubt that the Saudi government sought to kill him as soon as they had detained him, and they had arranged for him to return to the consulate on that day so that they could carry out the murder. The forensic specialist was called in immediately to dispose of the evidence. It also seems pointless to deny that the crown prince is responsible for ordering the murder. The New York Times reports [2] that several of the men believed to be involved in the murder are close associates of the crown prince or members of his security detail:

    One of the suspects identified by Turkey in the disappearance of the Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi was a frequent companion of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman — seen disembarking from airplanes with him in Paris and Madrid and photographed standing guard during his visits this year to Houston, Boston and the United Nations.

    Three others are linked by witnesses and other records to the Saudi crown prince’s security detail.

    A fifth is a forensic doctor who holds senior positions in the Saudi Interior Ministry and medical establishment, a figure of such stature that he could be directed only by a high-ranking Saudi authority.

    There is no chance that all of these men were engaged in some unauthorized mission without the crown prince’s knowledge and approval. The fact that so many of them were so closely linked with Mohammed bin Salman suggests that they were chosen precisely because they were willing to do whatever was asked of them. The sheer recklessness and stupidity of the crime also points to the crown prince, who has a reputation for making terrible and impulsive decisions without thinking through the consequences.

    When we add everything up, we have to conclude that it was a planned, state-sanctioned hit carried out on the orders of the kingdom’s de facto ruler, the Saudi government is still lying about what happened, and the Trump administration is shamelessly covering for them as much as possible. The crown prince and Saudi government bear full responsibility for the crime, but our executive branch is doing everything it can to make themselves accessories after the fact.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Dunno what happened, but this makes sense.
    Nothing else does unless MBS is a total idiot.



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  20. #17
    Coverup Deal Will Blame Khashoggi Death On Extreme Torture

    The coverup of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, killed on behalf of the Saudi clown prince Mohammad bin Salman, proceeds apace. It is part of a deal between Turkey and Saudi Arabia under the aegis of the United States. The haggling over the details will take a while.
    Several media report of a test ballon, floated to find out if an 'alternative' story will fly:

    Saudi Arabia was preparing an alternative explanation of the fate of a dissident journalist on Monday, saying he died at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul two weeks ago in an interrogation gone wrong, according to a person familiar with the kingdom’s plans. In Washington, President Trump echoed the possibility that Jamal Khashoggi was the victim of “rogue killers.”
    ...
    [O]n Monday, a person familiar with the Saudi government’s plans said that Mr. Khashoggi was mistakenly killed during an interrogation ordered by a Saudi intelligence official who was a friend of the crown prince. The person, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Prince Mohammed had approved interrogating or even forcing Mr. Khashoggi to return to Saudi Arabia under duress.But, the person said, the Saudi intelligence official went too far in eagerly seeking to prove himself in secretive operations, then sought to cover up the botched job.

    One might expand on that fairytale: "The Saudi general who allegedly botched the interrogation of Jamal Khashoggi mysteriously died in a Saudi air force plane crash on the same day the coverup story was floated." But that would probably take it too far.

    The floated story will of course not be believed. A deadly interrogation - extreme torture - in the Saudi consulate is not plausible. One does not need to fly in 15 operators, including a specialist for autopsies, to twist someone's arms and ask a few questions. The intent was either to kidnap the guy or to outright kill him.
    The trial ballon seems to come from U.S. sources, not from the Saudis. Trump yesterday spoke of "rogue killers" who may have caused the incident. No one near Mohammad bin Salman dares to go rogue. It's a deadly sin. U.S. intelligence services seem to believe that Khashoggi was indeed killed. The Wall Street Journal reports that Turkey provided its evidence:

    The Turkish government has shared with U.S. officials what it describes as audio and video recordings purporting to show that Mr. Khashoggi was killed in the building, people familiar with the matter said.

    The Trump administration will have to sell the story not only to the public, but also to the Turkish President Erdogan and to the Saudi King.
    Both seem to prepare for a deal. After two weeks of denial that anything happened to Khashoggi the Saudis finally reacted:

    King Salman ordered the Saudi public prosecutor to head a probe to determine responsibility for who was responsible for Mr. Khashoggi’s disappearance, people familiar with the matter said Monday. Probe results could be announced within days, and lead to some Saudi individuals being held accountable for Mr. Khashoggi’s death, one of the people said.

    The Turkish side is also preparing to accept the coverup:

    On Monday Turkish investigators – who had been willing to talk for much of the past nine days – were now more cautious. So too were Turkish journalists, one of whom said that his outlet had been instructed to focus less on the apparent crime and more on the political settlement.

    The Turkish President Erdogan may agree to a 'political settlement' but the price the Saudis will have to pay for that will be very high. Erdogan again made clear that he aims at nothing less than neo-ottoman leadership in the Arab world:

    Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on Monday said that Turkey was the only country that could lead the Muslim world.“Turkey, with its cultural wealth, accretion of history and geographical location, has hosted diverse faiths in peace for centuries, and is the only country that can lead the Muslim world,” he said in a meeting with religious officials.

    The "Custodian of the two Holy Mosques" (in Mecca and Medina) is the official title of the Saudi king. It implies leadership within the Muslim word. Since Saladin the title was used by many Islamic rulers, including the Ottoman Sultans. Erdogan wants it back. His aspirations pose an open challenge to the Saudi rulers.
    But when a deal has to be made, a deal will happen. Even it it takes some time.

    Whatever the deal might be Jamal Khashoggi's children will protest against it. They demand"an independent and impartial international commission to inquire into the circumstances of his death". The Washington Post, where Khashoggi worked, and some Congress members will likely support them. But there is little chance that Trump or the Saudis will agree to any independent inquiry.

    An open question is the future of clown prince Mohammad bin Salman. The 'deep state' wants him to leave. The uncontrollable guy - only a heartbeat away from becoming king - proved to be too dangerous to be allowed in such a position.

    This detail is therefore intriguing:

    The Saudi ambassador to the United States, Prince Khalid bin Salman, left Washington last week, returned to Riyadh and will not be returning, a current and a former American official said on Monday. It was not clear when he might be replaced, or by whom. Prince Khalid is the crown prince’s younger brother.

    Did clown prince Mohammad bin Salman recall his brother because he feared that he plotted against him? Or did King Salman order him back to replace MbS as crown prince?

    Mohammad bin Salman is already damaged goods. I find it unlikely that he will be allowed to stay in his position. Several high level U.S. congress people, including top Republicans, want him to go. The CIA's darling, Prince Muhammad bin Nayef, will likely regain the crown prince position.

    On Monday, while the cover up story was thought out, Turkish investigators were finally allowed to enter the Saudi consulate. Before they arrived a cleaning crew entered the building(vid) to prepare the presumed crime scene.

    Trump sent Secretary of State Pompeo to facilitate negotiations between the Saudis and Turks. Ambassador James Jeffrey, the special representative for Syria engagement, is joining him in the endeavor. The Saudis finance the Kurdish proxy force the U.S. uses for its occupation of northeast Syria. One of Erdogan 's demands will be that any such support ends.

    Trump is a businessman. The U.S. help for cleaning up the mess MbS caused will not come cheap. He will press the Saudis to sign more weapon deals. He will urge them to stick to random killing of Yemeni civilians.

    In the view of the Washington establishment causing the famine of millions of dark skinned people is a lesser sin than touching a journalist and operative they perceive as one of their own.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Nothing else does unless MBS is a total idiot.
    He's not necessarily an idiot for ordering the hit on the WaPo CIA-"journalist", he's an idiot for not anticipating this type of reaction.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by homahr View Post
    He's not necessarily an idiot for ordering the hit on the WaPo CIA-"journalist", he's an idiot for not anticipating this type of reaction.
    What's was his motive for whacking the guy?

  23. #20
    Suddenly Miss Linzi cares about murdering innocent people, right...

  24. #21
    The Saudi Sycophants in the Trump Administration

    The Trump administration’s cynical indulgence of self-serving Saudi claims has been on full display this week:
    The secretary of state was all smiles, his hand outstretched, as he approached the crown prince.
    “We are strong and old allies,” Mohammed told Pompeo before reporters were ushered out. “We face our challenges together — the past, the day of, tomorrow.”
    Pompeo replied with enthusiasm: “Absolutely.”
    The Associated Press
    @AP


    BREAKING: Trump tells AP that Saudi Arabia being blamed for missing journalist is another case of "guilty until proven innocent."
    6:01 PM - Oct 16, 2018



    Between Pompeo’s embarrassing sycophancy and Trump’s disgraceful attempts to cover for the Saudis, the Trump administration has lived down to my extremely low expectations for how they would respond to the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. It comes as no surprise that they are making excuses for Mohammed bin Salman and his government, since this has been an important part of the “Saudi first” foreign policy that the administration has been conducting for the last twenty months. If Pompeo was willing to lie to Congress for the Saudis and their allies last month in his bogus Yemen certification, we should expect him to endorse Saudi attempts to whitewash their role in the murder of a prominent critic. Pompeo may not realize how much damage he is doing to his reputation and his relationship with members of Congress, especially those on the Foreign Relations Committee, but the damage is significant and lasting.
    Pompeo’s behavior during his visit to Riyadh was extremely inappropriate under the circumstances, and many observers remarked on how wrong it was.

    Suzanne Maloney@MaloneySuzanne



    This was a shameful photo op and it raises questions about Pompeo’s basic political acumen
    Shadi Hamid
    @shadihamid


    The pictures of Pompeo grinning, smiling, and laughing with the crown prince—as if a journalist wasn't just murdered—are remarkable. Not only is it bad policy; it's downright embarrassing. It makes Pompeo look like an unserious pushover. It's really indefensible on any grounds





    3:44 PM - Oct 16, 2018




    View image on Twitter
    Shadi Hamid
    @shadihamid


    The pictures of Pompeo grinning, smiling, and laughing with the crown prince—as if a journalist wasn't just murdered—are remarkable. Not only is it bad policy; it's downright embarrassing. It makes Pompeo look like an unserious pushover. It's really indefensible on any grounds
    3:12 PM - Oct 16, 2018




    View image on Twitter
    Murtaza Mohammad Hussain
    @MazMHussain





    Chilling message of impunity in this photo. You can brazenly murder a journalist in full view of the world and the U.S. Secretary of State will still be glad to appear smiling in public with you a few days later:
    1:02 PM - Oct 16, 2018



    Twitter Ads info and privacy





    The president has a knack for offering the most preposterous defenses for the most obviously guilty people. The Saudi government is being blamed for Khashoggi’s death because there is no one else that could be responsible. When a government critic is detained and killed by agents of that government in their own consulate, that government is undeniably guilty of murdering him. Trump keeps mentioning the official denials from the crown prince and others as if those matter, but we are far past the point of pretending that we don’t know what happened. The president wants to obfuscate and distract for as long as possible in the hopes that all of this will soon be forgotten, and so he keeps trying to buy time by stalling and refusing to take any action that might put pressure on Riyadh to admit the truth. It doesn’t fool anyone, and it isn’t helping the Saudis very much, because it just convinces members of Congress that they will have to do what the president won’t.
    The good news is that Trump is making the relationship with the Saudis more politically toxic by embracing it, and the Saudis are bringing discredit on the Trump administration for its uncritical, reflexive support for them. The more that Trump and his officials lie and cover up for a reckless client, the worse it is for both the administration and the Saudis.

  25. #22
    “We need a through investigation of this incident. We shall form a Commision, and they shall issue a Report. Then all will be good again.”
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  26. #23
    There are no good guys in this. The new Prince is trying to bring his brand of Western to the East. The old brand of East is fighting it. This well could be the beginning of a civil war and we would be best served by staying out of it.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    What's was his motive for whacking the guy?
    The Prince is a reformer. Among other proposed reforms, he wants to dismantle the world as they know it, including forcing the people back into the workforce. No more free stuff, in Libertarian vernacular.

    The "journalist" was, at best, a paid propaganda-ist for the old regime. Possibly a spy. Not saying that he deserved to be murdered, but we're applying Western values to Eastern culture with a lot of the outrage. These people still do public beheadings on a regular basis.
    Last edited by angelatc; 10-17-2018 at 12:41 PM.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Nothing else does unless MBS is a total idiot.
    MBS may be a total idiot so I put the odds at 50/50.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There are no good guys in this. The new Prince is trying to bring his brand of Western to the East. The old brand of East is fighting it. This well could be the beginning of a civil war and we would be best served by staying out of it.
    Amen to that.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  31. #27
    They Got Saudi Arabia Wrong Too

    By Daniel R. DePetris

    Mohammed bin Salman cuts a dashing figure. Here’s a Saudi royal, in his early 30s, who speaks about ushering in an unprecedented transformation of the Kingdom’s fossilized society. His elevation to crown prince in 2017 was interpreted by much of the West as a godsend to modernity, free markets, and 21st-century thinking. American foreign policy elites ate up MbS’s sales pitch like a New Yorker eats pepperoni pizza: with delight in their eyes and joy in their hearts. Finally, a prince from a younger generation was working to bring Saudi Arabia—the land of oil, sword dancing, and Islam’s two holiest cities—towards a brighter future. Women would be driving soon; Western businesses would be investing in something other than the energy sector.


    Thomas Friedman, the bestselling author and long-time New York Times columnist, bought MbS’s story hook, line, and sinker. After jetting to Riyadh for an exclusive interview with the crown prince last November, Friedman wrote about [1] bin Salman as if he was the very best Saudi Arabia had to offer. In one of his more naive dispatches, Friedman described Saudi Arabia as being on the cusp of its own Arab Spring. The rich and entitled royals were finally getting punished for stealing from the state’s coffers. “Not a single Saudi I spoke to here over three days expressed anything other than effusive support for this anticorruption drive,” Friedman observed in his column. Of course, given that the Kingdom is an absolute monarchy and MbS has a reputation as a petulant child, why Friedman expected anything other than glowing assessments from Saudis is puzzling.


    In the last two weeks, by virtue of his actions, the crown prince has demonstrated to the entire world his true character: as intolerant of dissent and as obsessed with blind loyalty as every other autocrat in the Arab world. He is a reckless and bumbling amateur who plunged his country into a self-defeating cycle of mistakes, quagmires, and diplomatic imbroglios; an insulated princeling more in line with a mob boss than the squeaky clean anti-corruption crusader he is trying to sell himself as. Tom Friedman and members of the Trump administration may have largely accepted his narrative, but for the rest of us who have watched the total decimation of neighboring Yemen and the near-starvation of 13 million Yemenis [2], no public relations firm in the world can polish the giant turd the crown prince has laid at his own Kingdom’s doorstep.


    Since the disappearance and murder of Jamal Khashoggi at the likely hands of a Saudi hit squad, Friedman has issued a mild [3]mea culpa [3] of sorts. Days after the Khashoggi story broke, he reminded readers that while he was excited about MbS’s potential as an economic and social reformer, it wasn’t like he was starry-eyed about him. And as with the rest of the foreign policy establishment in the Beltway, Friedman’s non-apology will be enough. He will continue to be invited to conferences the world over, continue writing columns for America’s paper of record, and continue selling books at a record clip. The media will continue to book him as a renowned foreign policy expert, despite his dubious track record [4] in offering advice.


    To be fair to Tom Friedman, everybody is entitled to make mistakes. I, too, have made a few in my life; no one is perfect after all. The big difference, however, is that poor judgment in foreign policy can get a lot of people killed, drawing countries into strategically foolish wars that upend regional stability and push national debt into the stratosphere. If the foreign policy community policed itself a little better and abandoned its systemic unaccountability—unaccountability that allows the cheerleaders of some of our nation’s worst foreign policy disasters to remain on our television screens and in our newspapers (Bill Kristol, Stephen Hayes, Bret Stephens, and Marc Thiessen, to name just a few)—perhaps we would all be better off.


    Jamal Khashoggi’s state-sanctioned murder is a despicable act of depravity. But there is a lesson to be learned that is bigger than Khashoggi, Mohammed bin Salman, and even the U.S.-Saudi relationship: the elites who have been influencing public opinion for decades should no longer get a pass. They need to be called out and made to answer.

  32. #28
    Describing the Saudi rulers as 'reformers' is actually nothing new, it's been going on for 70 years:

    Seventy Years of the New York Times Describing Saudi Royals as Reformers

    'But this guy is different'. LOL.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    You live by the morals/principles, you die by morals/principles. I really hate agreeing with Lindsey $#@!ing Graham, but he is right on this issue.
    Ditto.

    Lindsey lately seems to be evolving, he recently also spoke about Israeli lobbies election inteference.
    Hopefully genuine priciple driven change and not because AIPAC cut his funding.

  34. #30
    Hopefully Graham never makes it to the presidency. I can only imagine how many people are on his kill list.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge



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