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Thread: Trump's tariffs now cost Americans more than Obamacare taxes

  1. #1

    Trump's tariffs now cost Americans more than Obamacare taxes

    It’s official: The latest round of tariffs now means that the total tax increase on Americans from enacted tariffs exceeds the tax increases from the Affordable Care Act, (un)popularly known as “Obamacare.”On Sept. 19, President Trump imposed a 10 percent tax on $200 billion of Chinese imports. On Jan. 1, 2019, this tax will rise to 25 percent. But even without that January tariff rate increase, trade taxes on American businesses and consumers will exceed those of the ACA.

    With the added $20 billion in trade taxes coming from this latest round of tariffs, the National Taxpayers Union Foundation now estimates the total annual cost of enacted tariffs to be $41.65 billion. That easily outpaces the tax bill from the Affordable Care Act for next year ($34.6 billion) after accounting for recent changes to the ACA.

    The $67.2 billion estimated 2019 tax burden of the Affordable Care Act prior to those changes is lower than the cost of new trade taxes once a scheduled $30 billion tariff increase takes effect in January. If every currently proposed tariff is enacted, the total trade tax burden will nearly double even the tax burden of the pre-reform ACA — NTUF estimates the net total of proposed and enacted trade taxes to be $132.55 billion. That would offset more than 70 percent of the $188.8 billion in 2019 individual income tax cuts.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...bamacare-taxes
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken


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  3. #2
    Sounds legit.
    Openly Straight Man Danke Awarded Top Rated Influencer

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  4. #3
    Openly Straight Man Danke Awarded Top Rated Influencer

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  5. #4
    Trump's high tariffs...

  6. #5
    If you don't count the Chinese dropping their prices to compensate or the regulatory costs etc. that Obamacare causes.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    As someone who doesn't worship at the altar of consumerism, I think I will survive the tariffs. Obamacare, on the contrary, was essentially unavoidable.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  8. #7
    I paid no obummercare fines nor will tariffs effect me . I am not a slave .
    Do something Danke

  9. #8
    Name a single product that actually increased in price to the end consumer.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Name a single product that actually increased in price to the end consumer.
    Washing machines

  12. #10
    Bastiat would have a stroke reading this garbage.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Washing machines
    False. I searched multiple brands and models using an Amazon price tracker and compared to 6 months ago the prices are the same or lower.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Bastiat would have a stroke reading this garbage.
    Can you clarify what garbage?? Bastiat was adamantly opposed to protectionism.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    False. I searched multiple brands and models using an Amazon price tracker and compared to 6 months ago the prices are the same or lower.
    Largest Ever 3-Month Increase in Washing Machine Prices



    If you’re unfortunate enough to be shopping for a new washing machine, you can thank the Trump tariffs on imported washing machines, washing machine parts, steel and aluminum for the largest three-month price increase — 16.4% from February to May this year — in the 40-year history of the BLS series for Major Appliances: Laundry Equipment that started in January 1978 (see chart above).

  16. #14
    What a load of horse $#@!.

    Between my employer and myself I am paying well over $1500 a month in health care insurance costs.

    Any price increases of retail and durable goods has been negligible to the point of non existence and certainly no where near over $1500 a month in increases.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    False. I searched multiple brands and models using an Amazon price tracker and compared to 6 months ago the prices are the same or lower.
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    So who is wrong here?

    You both can't be right.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So who is wrong here?

    You both can't be right.
    Well, I posted sourced CPI data; spudea posted unsourced personal anecdotes.



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  20. #17
    This is a pretty narrow sliver, but Sears seems to be increasing their prices on washing machines.. interestingly, the Electrolux brand may be cheaper than it was 6 months ago, but everything else is up.





    Kenmore 41262 4.5cu.ft. Front-Load Washer - White



    https://www.sears.com/kenmore-41262-...1&blockType=G1

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180319...1&blockType=G1

    Retail Price increase:

    0.85%

    Catalog Price increase:

    12.8%

    Samsung WF42H5000AW 4.2 cu. ft. Front-Load Washer - White


    https://www.sears.com/samsung-4.2-cu...3&blockType=G3

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180324...3&blockType=G3


    Retail Price Increase:

    13.4%

    Catalog Price Increase:

    14.2%


    LG WM3770HVA 4.5 cu. ft. Front Load Washer w/ TurboWash® - Graphite Steel


    https://www.sears.com/lg-wm3770hva-4...&blockType=G16

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170627...&blockType=G16

    Retail Price Increase:

    34.7%

    Catalog Price Increase:

    9.1%


    Bosch WAT28401UC 500 Series 2.2 cu. ft. Compact Washer - White


    https://www.sears.com/bosch-500-seri...&blockType=G29

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170429...&blockType=G29

    Retail Price increase:

    15.6%

    Catalog Price increase:

    4.4%


    Electrolux EFLS517SIW 4.3 cu. ft. Front-Load Perfect Steam™ Washer - White


    https://www.sears.com/electrolux-efl...&blockType=G47

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180324...&blockType=G47

    Retail Price Increase:

    0% (Price in cart might be even lower, could be a price reduction)

    Catalog Price Increase:

    0%
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well, I posted sourced CPI data; spudea posted unsourced personal anecdotes.
    Ya, we should always trust the government data

    You would discredit yourself less if you didn't talk so much.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So who is wrong here?

    You both can't be right.
    I think I believe the guy quoting market prices instead of the one quoting government numbers.

    The bureaucracy is full of people who want to make Trump look bad.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    If the Tariffs cost more than Obama's Taxes, maybe we should not have sent all our jobs overseas and import everything!
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ya, we should always trust the government data
    The BLS tends to underestimate inflation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I think I believe the guy quoting market prices instead of the one quoting government numbers.

    The bureaucracy is full of people who want to make Trump look bad.
    No one quoted any market price.

  25. #22
    Nobody (with a brain) here actually believes these tariffs are permanent.

    Nobody here actually thought Obamacare could be repealed, and it still isn't. Only the mandate is dead.

    I'll take temporary tariffs with a near certainty of net lower tariffs in the end, over Obamacare + individual mandate, forever.
    Rand Paul : Ultimately, if someone's going to accuse you of something that's going to bring down a presidency, I think we deserve to know who that person is.
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What a grotesque embarrassment Rand has become
    Ron Paul : If you're accused of a crime, you have the right to face your accuser.
    ^^^^^^
    Talk about embarrassing...

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    This is a pretty narrow sliver, but Sears seems to be increasing their prices on washing machines.. interestingly, the Electrolux brand may be cheaper than it was 6 months ago, but everything else is up.

    Bosch WAT28401UC 500 Series 2.2 cu. ft. Compact Washer - White


    https://www.sears.com/bosch-500-seri...&blockType=G29

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170429...&blockType=G29

    Retail Price increase:

    15.6%

    Catalog Price increase:

    4.4%
    Yes a single retailer price will highly vary based on their inventory and sale campaigns that they have going on. Here's the amazon price tracker I used that shows this Bosch model at $1124 in January, to $1025 now. Amazon can list and fulfill from several 3rd party retailers.

    https://camelcamelcamel.com/Bosch-WA...context=search
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well, I posted sourced CPI data; spudea posted unsourced personal anecdotes.
    The CPI has a key flaw that they only survey urban area in 70 cities, do not survey rural areas. The BLS also provides this disclaimer in their release info: "The CPI is a statistical estimate that is subject to sampling error because it is based upon a sample of retail prices and not the complete universe of all prices."
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    The CPI has a key flaw that they only survey urban area in 70 cities, do not survey rural areas. The BLS also provides this disclaimer in their release info: "The CPI is a statistical estimate that is subject to sampling error because it is based upon a sample of retail prices and not the complete universe of all prices."
    If you're arguing that the CPI is an imperfect measure of price inflation, I agree (never claimed it was perfect).

    If you're arguing that it's less accurate than the data you posted, that can't be, since you didn't post any.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If you're arguing that the CPI is an imperfect measure of price inflation, I agree (never claimed it was perfect).

    If you're arguing that it's less accurate than the data you posted, that can't be, since you didn't post any.
    post #23 shows my method. I'm satisfied with what I have presented and am confident anyone can obtain the knowledge for themselves. See sig.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    If the Tariffs cost more than Obama's Taxes, maybe we should not have sent all our jobs overseas and import everything!
    And perhaps you shouldn't purchase anything and instead produce it all yourself.

    If you did that, would you be more or less wealthy?
    "The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety."
    H. L. Mencken


    I don't hate you. You're just some person on the internet who believes in things that aren't real.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    my method
    So the method is to take one model on Amazon and assume it represents the whole washing machine market in the US?

    Here's another model for sale on Amazon, whose price increased $130 (26%) since February.

    https://thetracktor.com/detail/B074BXLK17/

    What now?

    Maybe we need an average of many such price changes.



    ...if only this sort of data had already been compiled and published somewhere.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    What a load of horse $#@!.

    Between my employer and myself I am paying well over $1500 a month in health care insurance costs.

    Any price increases of retail and durable goods has been negligible to the point of non existence and certainly no where near over $1500 a month in increases.
    Holy Cow!
    Where is John Galt?



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