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Thread: Ron Paul Is Warning That A 50% Stock Market Decline Is Coming – And Theres No Way To Stop It

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    This could get interesting if the markets keep dropping with an election coming up. My guess is the Fed will try to wait until after the election before they go to their playbook to avoid appearing biased.

    Fed Playbook:

    1. Make comments about slowing rate hikes.

    2. Make comments about freezing hikes for an extended period.

    3. Make comments about lowering rates.

    4. Lower rates.

    5. QE4.
    I think you are probably right. I think they'll time the real crash for about 2 years from now. At least I suspect that's the plan, things don't always go the way even the Fed wants them to.
    "The journalist is one who separates the wheat from the chaff, and then prints the chaff." - Adlai Stevenson

    “I tell you that virtue does not come from money: but from virtue comes money and all other good things to man, both to the individual and to the state.” - Socrates



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Original_Intent View Post
    I think you are probably right. I think they'll time the real crash for about 2 years from now. At least I suspect that's the plan, things don't always go the way even the Fed wants them to.
    I don't think they're trying to time or plan anything. I think they're just trying to keep everything from falling apart. Of course they're the ones that created the problem when they launched QE and ZIRP back in 2008.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I don't think they're trying to time or plan anything. I think they're just trying to keep everything from falling apart. Of course they're the ones that created the problem when they launched QE and ZIRP back in 2008.
    Most of that "money" was imaginary accounting book entries that never went anywhere except the banking circles, and ended up in the form of giant price bubbles in stock, bond and real estate. It was all imaginary. The fact that the S&P500 bottom was '666' told the tale. It was all bs from that point on...'666' was a reference to imagination and creating a story that wasn't real. The fruit of the (kabbalah) tree.


    Oh and Dow futures are $#@!ting this morning. -270 at 4:10am et.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Most of that "money" was imaginary accounting book entries that never went anywhere except the banking circles, and ended up in the form of giant price bubbles in stock, bond and real estate. It was all imaginary. The fact that the S&P500 bottom was '666' told the tale. It was all bs from that point on...'666' was a reference to imagination and creating a story that wasn't real. The fruit of the (kabbalah) tree.


    Oh and Dow futures are $#@!ting this morning. -270 at 4:10am et.
    I don't see how the QE money is any more imaginary than any other FRNs. The banks traded (way overpriced) assets like mortgage back securities for currency that can be spent like any other currency, as far as I can tell. If they can't spend it what good is it to them?

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I don't see how the QE money is any more imaginary than any other FRNs. The banks traded (way overpriced) assets like mortgage back securities for currency that can be spent like any other currency, as far as I can tell. If they can't spend it what good is it to them?
    Granted, it is all imaginary/illusory but how the money came into existence makes some of it more illusory than others. QE and the similar bank created accounting entries that never enter the economy have no value whatsoever since they were not earned in any form. Much of the stock market numbers are from this kind of money, mere accounting entries. They can be zero'ed back out just as easily as they were created. TARP was an example of worthless accounting entries used solely to fix ledger holes but was not "spent". It is the 401k/IRA/retail investor/etc money that is earned through labor and therefore has value. The primary purpose of stock markets is to remove that earned money from the slaves periodically. Once we went from actual physical currency based markets to solely digital markets, it all became nothing more than a book entry accounting game. That's the best way I can explain it.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  8. #36
    The Dow Has Now Plunged 2,368 Points From The Peak Of The Market
    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/a...-of-the-market

    Read if youre interested... and youre NOT Zippy...
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    The Dow Has Now Plunged 2,368 Points From The Peak Of The Market
    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/a...-of-the-market

    Read if youre interested... and youre NOT Zippy...
    Dow is up about 500 points right now for today.

    It is earnings report week. They can be volatile as some companies come in below or above expectations. Dow was down almost 600 points yesterday and up over 400 today. There is also some concern over rising interest rates and long term effects of Trump's tariffs.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-25-2018 at 05:16 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

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  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Dow is up about 500 points right now for today.
    Gold still at 1232.00 , but silver is still a bargain. When you are on vacation you should come by the store in southern In and buy yourself something nice for Christmas . I always get myself something nice , do not want to trust that to Danke .
    Do something Danke

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Much of the stock market numbers are from this kind of money, mere accounting entries. They can be zero'ed back out just as easily as they were created.

    I've heard this before, that the Fed can just "erase" the money it created. There's one big problem with that. Somebody owns that money. Whoever owns it is not going to sit quietly and let the Fed "erase" it. That's like saying the money in your bank account is merely an electronic entry and the bank can "erase" it. That's true but they run the risk of getting shot by their customers.

    The only way the Fed can reduce it's balance sheet is by selling its assets and then "burning" the money it collects. The problem is that the Fed's assets are worth much less than the Fed paid for them. So even if they sold all those crappy mortgage backed securities, they'd still have a few trillion left on their balance sheet.
    Last edited by Madison320; 10-28-2018 at 09:46 AM.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I've heard this before, that the Fed can just "erase" the money it created. There's one big problem with that. Somebody owns that money. Whoever owns it is not going to sit quietly and let the Fed "erase" it. That's like saying the money in your bank account is merely an electronic entry and the bank can "erase" it. That's true but they run the risk of getting shot by their customers.
    You gotta look at it from a bit higher perspective. If that money is all maintained within the Fed's closed system of banks that make up the Fed Res System, the Fed never loses ownership of it, nor do the top level personnel that administer those banks go against directives from the FRB. Do remember that all of it is private currency owned by the Fed in the first place (says so right on the notes), comparable to casino chips in a casino. Reserves held with the Fed or in bank trust accounts, etc.

    That is very different than the digits held in a customer's account, though it is important to remember that there are no "customer accounts". There is a pool of digits held in trust by the respective banks and the "account" with the number and "your" name is merely an accounting designation, not segregated funds. The accounting entries I am talking about are the ones not tied to the pooled digits tied to accounts. Those digits are the earned money I referred to.

    The only way the Fed can reduce it's balance sheet is by selling its assets and then "burning" the money it collects. The problem is that the Fed's assets are worth much less than the Fed paid for them. So even if they sold all those crappy mortgage backed securities, they'd still have a few trillion left on their balance sheet.
    The Fed does a lot of things behind closed doors that are never disclosed so paying attention solely to one set of books (the public books) while not accounting for the second set of books (the private books, where only glimpses are provided by express legislation, such as the trillions "loaned" to foreign central banks that was never released until act of congress required it) means only seeing half of the picture. Bottom line, not all money is created equal in this system and some is more illusory than others.
    Last edited by devil21; 10-28-2018 at 12:09 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals



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  14. #41
    I think the Fed can erase currency.
    Do something Danke

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    You gotta look at it from a bit higher perspective. If that money is all maintained within the Fed's closed system of banks that make up the Fed Res System, the Fed never loses ownership of it, nor do the top level personnel that administer those banks go against directives from the FRB. Do remember that all of it is private currency owned by the Fed in the first place (says so right on the notes), comparable to casino chips in a casino. Reserves held with the Fed or in bank trust accounts, etc.

    I agree that the Fed can delete money that it owns. But once they give it to someone they can't delete it.

    But then what good is that money that the Fed creates if they have to perpetually own it? That means they can never SPEND IT. And once they spend it they can't erase it because it now belongs to someone else.

    Suppose the Fed secretly creates some money and gives it to some European bank. What does the Fed say?, "Here's 10 billion, you can deposit it in your account, you can look at all the 0000s, you can fantasize about the luxury yachts you could buy with it, but YOU CAN NEVER SPEND IT! even if you are starving to death, you can even buy a loaf of bread with it!".

    Think about this. Has any country ever significantly reduced it's monetary base? Japan contracted its monetary base by a few percentage points but that didn't last long. It's never been done because it's virtually impossible. It means someone has to have LESS MONEY than they had before. And most people don't volunteer for that.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I agree that the Fed can delete money that it owns. But once they give it to someone they can't delete it.

    But then what good is that money that the Fed creates if they have to perpetually own it? That means they can never SPEND IT. And once they spend it they can't erase it because it now belongs to someone else.

    Suppose the Fed secretly creates some money and gives it to some European bank. What does the Fed say?, "Here's 10 billion, you can deposit it in your account, you can look at all the 0000s, you can fantasize about the luxury yachts you could buy with it, but YOU CAN NEVER SPEND IT! even if you are starving to death, you can even buy a loaf of bread with it!".

    Think about this. Has any country ever significantly reduced it's monetary base? Japan contracted its monetary base by a few percentage points but that didn't last long. It's never been done because it's virtually impossible. It means someone has to have LESS MONEY than they had before. And most people don't volunteer for that.
    Do keep in mind that my original comment you replied to was specifically about stock market 'money' that makes up the point value of the markets on any given day. Much of it is mere accounting entry digits created within bank's books that they use to trade equities back and forth between each other thus bidding up the prices. It gives an illusion of market value that isn't real.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Do keep in mind that my original comment you replied to was specifically about stock market 'money' that makes up the point value of the markets on any given day. Much of it is mere accounting entry digits created within bank's books that they use to trade equities back and forth between each other thus bidding up the prices. It gives an illusion of market value that isn't real.
    That's a good point. That might be a case where they can delete it, since they own it. And it serves a purpose since it drives up the price. I need to think about that.

    What I was referring to was the idea that we don't need to worry about inflation any more now that currency is created electronically. That somehow the money can just be erased. That won't work because by definition if the money is driving up prices, it's out in circulation and someone other than the Fed owns it. So if the Fed erased it, someone would be highly pissed off. Besides that the idea that electronic money is different than paper money is false. You can always go to your bank and exchange your electronic money for paper money.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    That's a good point. That might be a case where they can delete it, since they own it. And it serves a purpose since it drives up the price. I need to think about that.
    Exactly. Like I said, the primary purpose of the markets is to collect 401k/IRA/retail earned money from the people and then take it. Handing over money to a bank/brokerage means you lose any equitable title to the money and it becomes legally the property of the bank/brokerage, under trust law. In God We TRUST! That means trust law, not the sheep's definition of 'trust'. My research into this (reinhardt's Catholic Legatus info from 2008 that appears to be happening again right now) leads me to believe that the taken, earned, money is considered a tithe to the Vatican by the Catholic business people that run the companies that make up the lion's share of the markets. When the markets "correct" (crash), what is actually happening is that earned money from the people is being removed. The market bottom is the point where it's nothing but bank accounting entries left (S&P500 bottom in 2009 was '666', after all). Then they start the cycle all over again. The key take-away is that only money earned by labor/energy/blood/sweat/toil has value.

    (side note: a coincidence that bankruptcy related credit reporting periods are either 7 or 10 years depending on the filing, while various market crashes also happen every 7 or 10 years? Nope, all biblical, since the economic system we live under is still ancient Roman canon law. Lloyd Blankfein did tell us that he was doing God's work, didn't he?)

    What I was referring to was the idea that we don't need to worry about inflation any more now that currency is created electronically. That somehow the money can just be erased. That won't work because by definition if the money is driving up prices, it's out in circulation and someone other than the Fed owns it. So if the Fed erased it, someone would be highly pissed off. Besides that the idea that electronic money is different than paper money is false. You can always go to your bank and exchange your electronic money for paper money.
    Yeah, it's not so simple to just erase people's checking "account" contents. Erasing their brokerage account contents happens like clockwork, however. As for the going to the bank to receive paper notes, yes that is true....unless everyone does it at the same time. Then ya got problems That's a big reason they want to eventually implement fully digital blockchain based "banking". No more bank run fears and price inflation risks that arise from paper notes, among other reasons. But it also means that people become literal slaves by working for something that only exists in their minds.
    Last edited by devil21; 10-29-2018 at 10:39 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Erasing their brokerage account contents happens like clockwork, however.
    Not sure what you mean. The Fed deletes private individual 401K deposits?

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Exactly. Like I said, the primary purpose of the markets is to collect 401k/IRA/retail earned money from the people and then take it. Handing over money to a bank/brokerage means you lose any equitable title to the money and it becomes legally the property of the bank/brokerage, under trust law. In God We TRUST! That means trust law, not the sheep's definition of 'trust'. My research into this (reinhardt's Catholic Legatus info from 2008 that appears to be happening again right now) leads me to believe that the taken, earned, money is considered a tithe to the Vatican by the Catholic business people that run the companies that make up the lion's share of the markets. When the markets "correct" (crash), what is actually happening is that earned money from the people is being removed. The market bottom is the point where it's nothing but bank accounting entries left (S&P500 bottom in 2009 was '666', after all). Then they start the cycle all over again. The key take-away is that only money earned by labor/energy/blood/sweat/toil has value.

    (side note: a coincidence that bankruptcy related credit reporting periods are either 7 or 10 years depending on the filing, while various market crashes also happen every 7 or 10 years? Nope, all biblical, since the economic system we live under is still ancient Roman canon law. Lloyd Blankfein did tell us that he was doing God's work, didn't he?)



    Yeah, it's not so simple to just erase people's checking "account" contents. Erasing their brokerage account contents happens like clockwork, however. As for the going to the bank to receive paper notes, yes that is true....unless everyone does it at the same time. Then ya got problems That's a big reason they want to eventually implement fully digital blockchain based "banking". No more bank run fears and price inflation risks that arise from paper notes, among other reasons. But it also means that people become literal slaves by working for something that only exists in their minds.
    How many 401k's have been seized so far? How many brokerage accounts wiped out?

    My research into this (reinhardt's Catholic Legatus info from 2008 that appears to be happening again right now) leads me to believe that the taken, earned, money is considered a tithe to the Vatican by the Catholic business people that run the companies that make up the lion's share of the markets.
    Reinhardt claimed that every time the Legatus group went on a pilgrimage, markets crash. The problem is that they go on pilgrimages three or four times a year and markets don't collapse three or four times a year. Yet people paid as much as $750 to get his advice (at least that is what he started charging for access to his website- how many actually paid is unknown).
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    How many 401k's have been seized so far? How many brokerage accounts wiped out?
    Hmm, multiple trillions already removed from markets in the last few weeks. Just gettin' warmed up.

    Reinhardt claimed that every time the Legatus group went on a pilgrimage, markets crash. The problem is that they go on pilgrimages three or four times a year and markets don't collapse three or four times a year. Yet people paid as much as $750 to get his advice (at least that is what he started charging for access to his website- how many actually paid is unknown).
    Wrong. That is not what he claimed. He did not claim that every time there was a pilgrimage it was a market crash. He isolated that the 2008 crash centered around the pilgrimage to Rome.

    I took his original revelations and dug deeper since and have come to my own conclusions. He knew a lot but I think he only scratched the surface of the rabbit hole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Not sure what you mean. The Fed deletes private individual 401K deposits?
    What do you think a market crash is??? That money you contributed goes somewhere. It doesn't just vanish into thin air.
    Last edited by devil21; 10-29-2018 at 02:13 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    What do you think a market crash is??? That money you contributed goes somewhere. It doesn't just vanish into thin air.
    Asset prices aren't the same thing as currency.

    Earlier you said that actual currency vanishes, now you're saying that assets prices DON'T vanish? Asset prices are just how much someone thinks your stuff is worth. It's not currency. I'm pretty sure you got it bass ackwards. Asset prices can vanish in a heartbeat, currency is almost impossible to get rid of.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Asset prices aren't the same thing as currency.
    Huh? An asset price is the cost of the asset in a currency. I don't follow you here. You put your earned money into the market to obtain an equitable (use) title of a share of stock. That currency goes into a brokerage trust account and a "tag" is applied to a share of stock with "your" name on it. You never own the stock. The DTC always owns it, as trustee, and the digital currency is placed into a separate pooled trust account, where the trustee of that account takes ownership of the currency. That currency stays in that trust account and is used to clear transactions through the DTC. When a crash occurs, it is the assets being sold/liquidated and the pooled currency withdrawn from the trust account. It was your currency and then it's gone. It went somewhere.

    Do you understand how trusts operate? It's all trusts so if not, learn about how trusts operate to understand it better. I'm not inclined to give a lecture on trust law and how it applies to the movements of currency and stocks within the system. No doubt it's a complicated system and is not easy to explain in a cliff notes version.

    eta: a bit of historical context may help. Sometime ago, in the 1300's iirc, some guy in a funny hat shaped like a fish head (homage to the fish god Dagon) declared that everything in the world was his property and always will be. Funny hat guy was the Roman Emperor or the Pope or whatever he called himself back then. The trust law system was then instituted to bring this papal declaration to fruition. That same trust law system is still in effect today and is used by Vatican adherents and foot soldiers (Jesuits) to continue to enforce that declaration. The 'NWO' we hear about is quite literally the end result of the global enforcement of that declaration, making everything, legally, the property of the Vatican under trust law.
    Last edited by devil21; 10-29-2018 at 06:34 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Huh? An asset price is the cost of the asset in a currency. I don't follow you here. You put your earned money into the market to obtain an equitable (use) title of a share of stock. That currency goes into a brokerage trust account and a "tag" is applied to a share of stock with "your" name on it. You never own the stock. The DTC always owns it, as trustee, and the digital currency is placed into a separate pooled trust account, where the trustee of that account takes ownership of the currency. That currency stays in that trust account and is used to clear transactions through the DTC. When a crash occurs, it is the assets being sold/liquidated and the pooled currency withdrawn from the trust account. It was your currency and then it's gone. It went somewhere.

    Do you understand how trusts operate? It's all trusts so if not, learn about how trusts operate to understand it better. I'm not inclined to give a lecture on trust law and how it applies to the movements of currency and stocks within the system. No doubt it's a complicated system and is not easy to explain in a cliff notes version.

    eta: a bit of historical context may help. Sometime ago, in the 1300's iirc, some guy in a funny hat shaped like a fish head (homage to the fish god Dagon) declared that everything in the world was his property and always will be. Funny hat guy was the Roman Emperor or the Pope or whatever he called himself back then. The trust law system was then instituted to bring this papal declaration to fruition. That same trust law system is still in effect today and is used by Vatican adherents and foot soldiers (Jesuits) to continue to enforce that declaration. The 'NWO' we hear about is quite literally the end result of the global enforcement of that declaration, making everything, legally, the property of the Vatican under trust law.
    What happens to the money when the value of an asset goes down? Who gets the money? If I buy a rock for $10, that person who sold it to me got $10. I decide to sell that rock but I can only find somebody willing to pay $5 for it. Where did the $5 I lost go to? The persons I got the rock from? Nope. The person I sold the rock to? No. The government or a central bank? Nope. It is simply gone.

    What about stocks? If I buy a stock through a broker, he may charge me a fee. Let's say I buy a stock for $100. They charged me $5. Yes, they got that $5. Let's say the value of that stock crashed and is not only worth $50. The broker again charges me $5 transaction fee. I paid $110 in total and got back $50. Instead of that $110 I now have $50 left. Where did the other $60 go? $10 went to the broker. His fees. What about the other $50? Did the broker get it? No. Did the government or central bank get it? No. Did the person who bought the stock from me get the $50? No. It is just gone. Nobody stole it and nobody got it.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-30-2018 at 01:36 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If I buy a rock for $10, that person who sold it to me got $10. I decide to sell that rock but I can only find somebody willing to pay $5 for it. Where did the $5 I lost go to?
    Suppose the person who sold it to you for ten, and the person who bought it for five, are one and the same person. If you are his banker, and one fine day that extra five dollars is "simply gone" from his account, are you or are you not an embezzler?

    Your implication that a falling market produces only losers and no winners is childish propaganda. Anyone who buys and/or sells is going to win or lose.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 10-30-2018 at 02:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Suppose the person who sold it to you for ten, and the person who bought it for five, are one and the same person. If you are his banker, and one fine day that extra five dollars is "simply gone" from his account, are you or are you not an embezzler?

    Your implication that a falling market produces only losers and no winners is childish propaganda. Anyone who buys and/or sells is going to win or lose.
    Then where did the money go? You buy a new car for $40,000. You drive it a while and sell it for $20,000. It isn't new anymore so it won't sell for new price. Who gets the $20,000 difference? They guy I bought the car from? The guy I sold the car to?

    It is not correct that everybody loses in a falling market. Just those who bought an asset at a higher price and sold it at a lower price. If I don't sell, I only lose money on paper. I can hold onto it and hope that in the future somebody will offer me a higher price again. It only matters what I bought it for and what I sell it for.

    If I bought Apple stock at $500 and it goes to $5,000 but then it goes down to $1000, I can sell and still make a profit over my purchase price even though it has gone down from its peak because I bought it at a lower price than the peak. I made $500 in that case. If I bought it at $5,000 and it goes down to $1000 and I sell at that time, I have lost $4000. If I bought at $5000 but don't sell at $1000 I have lost nothing. Then if it goes to $7000 and I wait to sell it until then, I have made $2000. In one example I lost money, in the other two I made money.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-30-2018 at 07:07 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Then where did the money go?
    It comes out of the pocket of the person who bought high, and goes into the pocket of the person who bought low and sold high, if any.

    If there were no sales, there was no money. I can change the price tag on a piece of merchandise a dozen times. But so long as it collects dust on the shelf, it means nothing. Oh, it might affect how much the owner can borrow against the asset. But that's about it. Just because there's a dollar sign on the price tag does not mean money ever went anywhere at all.

    This really isn't rocket science, Zippy. Valuation means nothing until there's a sale. And even though money is worth less daily, where money does enter into it, the number of dollars involved is a zero sum game. Every dollar someone loses speculating winds up in somebody's pocket.

    So it begs the question: When you ask where the money went, are you actually talking about money? Or are you talking about valuation--price tags--and using them to spin the stock market as a magical place where no one ever gets fleeced?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 10-30-2018 at 07:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  29. #55
    Gee, Zippy, why didn't you just copy and paste my response into your original quote? What's in my quote box was the sum total of it when I posted.

    So if you already knew where the actual money went, why did you ask?
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It comes out of the pocket of the person who bought high, and goes into the pocket of the person who bought low and sold high, if any.

    If there were no sales, there was no money. I can change the price tag on a piece of merchandise a dozen times. But so long as it collects dust on the shelf, it means nothing. Oh, it might affect how much the owner can borrow against the asset. But that's about it. Just because there's a dollar sign on the price tag does not mean money ever went anywhere at all.

    This really isn't rocket science, Zippy. Valuation means nothing until there's a sale. And even though money is worth less daily, where money does enter into it, the number of dollars involved is a zero sum game. Every dollar someone loses speculating winds up in somebody's pocket.

    So it begs the question: When you ask where the money went, are you actually talking about money? Or are you talking about valuation--price tags--and using them to spin the stock market as a magical place where no one ever gets fleeced?
    The money. I bought my rock for $10 and sold it for $5. Who got the extra $5 I lost? Devil21 says it goes to somebody (bankers?)- it can't just "disappear".
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-30-2018 at 07:31 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The money. I bought my rock for $10 and sold it for $5. Who got the extra $5 I lost?
    Paying attention this time? Concentrate.



    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Suppose the person who sold it to you for ten, and the person who bought it for five, are one and the same person. If you are his banker, and one fine day that extra five dollars is "simply gone" from his account, are you or are you not an embezzler?

    Your implication that a falling market produces only losers and no winners is childish propaganda. Anyone who buys and/or sells is going to win or lose.
    Now then, Zippy. I explained it two or three times and you explained it once yourself. Do not ask again.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 10-30-2018 at 07:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Suppose the person who sold it to you for ten, and the person who bought it for five, are one and the same person. If you are his banker, and one fine day that extra five dollars is "simply gone" from his account, are you or are you not an embezzler?

    Your implication that a falling market produces only losers and no winners is childish propaganda. Anyone who buys and/or sells is going to win or lose.
    Thank you. All of the transactions go through one single entity called the DTC, the Depository Trust Company (aka DTCC and Cede&Co.), and that is where money "disappears" to. So yes the buyer and seller are ultimately the same entity, the DTC. The DTC is who keeps that $5.

    They don't call it The Tower Of Power for nothing.

    HIGHLY RECOMMENDED READ ABOUT HOW MARKETS REALLY OPERATE:
    https://ecclesia.org/forum/uploads/b...ankingScam.pdf
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Thank you. All of the transactions go through one single entity called the DTC, the Depository Trust Company (aka DTCC and Cede&Co.), and that is where money "disappears" to. So yes the buyer and seller are ultimately the same entity, the DTC. The DTC is who keeps that $5.

    They don't call it The Tower Of Power for nothing.

    HIGHLY RECOMMENDED READ ABOUT HOW MARKETS REALLY OPERATE:
    https://ecclesia.org/forum/uploads/b...ankingScam.pdf
    What is the net worth of the DTC? If what you say is true, that must be $trillions. (they are more of a book-keeping operation which makes money charging fees for their services- they hold securities in custody but don't actually own them- like a bank is custodian for your deposits with them- they hold them for you but the money belongs to you. They act kinda like blockchain in bitcoin transactions- they keep track of all the transactions).

    An audit as of December 31, 2017 shows their net assets to be $33 billion. What about the $trillions of stocks you think they own?

    Revenues: $1.7 billion and expenses for the year at $1.4 billion with net profits of $165 million.

    (see DTCC 2017 Financials pdf: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...30.T2D4S-1QxEo )

    http://www.dtcc.com/settlement-and-a...-work-with-dtc

    WHAT DOES DTCC DO?

    The Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation (DTCC), through its subsidiaries, provides industry-leading solutions to safeguard the world’s financial markets. For more than 40 years, we have served as the premier post-trade market infrastructure in the industry, advancing the automation, centralization, standardization and streamlining of processes critical to the markets’ safety and soundness. Today, we stand at the center of global trading activity, processing trillions of dollars of securities transactions on a daily basis. We serve as the centralized clearinghouse for more than 50 exchanges and equity platforms, maintaining multiple data and operating centers worldwide providing strong business continuity and around the-clock support. User owned and governed, DTCC serves the needs of clients from initial onboarding through trading, clearance, settlement, asset servicing and data reporting.


    We provide services across multiple asset classes, including:
    - Clearing
    - Institutional matching
    - Settlement
    - Asset servicing
    - Collateral management
    - Global data management
    - Information services

    WHAT IS DTC?

    The Depository Trust Company (DTC), DTCC’s central securities depository subsidiary, provides depository and book-entry services and operates a securities settlement system. In this regard, DTC holds eligible securities on behalf of Participants and its activities include transfers and pledges of securities, and the settlement of transactions for Participants by book-entry, free of payment or delivery versus payment.

    DTC provides (i) settlement services for virtually all equity, corporate and municipal debt trades and Money Market Instruments in the U.S. Approximately 1.4 million settlement-related transactions per day, with a value of approximately $600 billion, are completed at DTCC in an efficient and risk-controlled process and (ii)central safekeeping and asset servicing for securities issues from 131 countries and territories valued at US$37.2 trillion. Asset services include: underwriting, corporate actions processing, securities processing, global tax services and issuer services.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-30-2018 at 10:26 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What is the net worth of the DTC? If what you say is true, that must be $trillions. (they are more of a book-keeping operation which makes money charging fees for their services- they hold securities in custody but don't actually own them- like a bank is custodian for your deposits with them- they hold them for you but the money belongs to you. They act kinda like blockchain in bitcoin transactions- they keep track of all the transactions).
    BS. Why must you constantly lie about the banking system?? Under trust law, the trustee/custodian of the asset is the legal owner of the asset. You are a beneficiary with no legal ownership, only a usage title to make use of the asset or the proceeds of an asset. And like an indentured slave, that use requires paying taxes on the proceeds. If you truly own something, you don't have to pay anyone anything to possess it, use it or profit from it. If you're paying taxes on something then that's a dead giveaway that you do NOT legally own it.

    Read the link I posted. It explains the legal structure quite well. Heck, even the banks have admitted that money deposited is an "investment" in the bank under bail-in regulations.

    An audit as of December 31, 2017 shows their net assets to be $33 billion. What about the $trillions of stocks you think they own?

    Revenues: $1.7 billion and expenses for the year at $1.4 billion with net profits of $165 million.

    (see DTCC 2017 Financials pdf: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...30.T2D4S-1QxEo )

    http://www.dtcc.com/settlement-and-a...-work-with-dtc
    DTCC is DTC's parent company so DTCC's numbers are irrelevant. $54 trillion in assets under DTC custody (legal ownership) according to their website, but since it's a private company and a subsidiary of the Fed, they don't have to tell the truth about any of their numbers.

    http://www.dtcc.com/about/businesses...bsidiaries/dtc

    DTC brings efficiency to the securities industry by retaining custody of more than 1.3 million active securities issues valued at US$54.2 trillion as of 7/31/2017, including securities issued in the US and more than 131 countries and territories.

    -------------------
    It's also rumored that the DTC is who retains copies of our birth certificates on the Fed's behalf, as collateral against the Fed's private debt. Such a rabbit hole of screwery.
    Last edited by devil21; 10-31-2018 at 04:21 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

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