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Thread: Brett Kavanaugh Sworn In As 114th Supreme Court Justice

  1. #31
    Hopefully Kavanaugh changed his stance on the 4th amendment after all the crap he just went through but I doubt it.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    And that is patently absurd because there is zero way to hold a Justice accountable when confirmed. They can say whatever they like but there is no way to hold them to it. Looking at the guy's history it is obvious he doesn't care about the 4th Amendment. Kavanaugh is the swamp and the deep state.
    Apparently it was due to his textualist stance, and since the texts have changed he sees it differently now.. and he is great on a lot of other issues.

    So, very likely better than the judge he replaced.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Hopefully Kavanaugh changed his stance on the 4th amendment after all the crap he just went through but I doubt it.
    Allegedly it had less to do with his stance on the issue and more to do with how he believes law works.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #34

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    ...Or because he didn't want to obliterate any political capital he might have had with the other Republicans in the Senate and the President himself. Going to the mat against Kavanaugh would be a bad strategic move.
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Spending political capital on standing for principles rather than advancing your principles and ideas is bad politics. I guess Rand Paul is a bad politician, which is not a bad thing in my eyes.

    So political expediency is more important than upholding the Constitution?
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  7. #35

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    you are truly unsufferable. Mike lee also voted yes. Ted Cruz also voted yes. That makes all the senators that this forum has supported since 2007 voted yes. Rand is standing on principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I have some problems with Kavanaugh, but if Lee and Paul supported him, then I can only reason that his appointment was a positive thing.

    Sorry, but logic fail:

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  8. #36

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    So, very likely better than the judge he replaced.
    He was unnecessary. Trump didn't even want him, but the deep state forced him.


    Why not go with Mike Lee who would have had a very easy time passing nomination by comparison?
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    He was unnecessary. Trump didn't even want him, but the deep state forced him.


    Why not go with Mike Lee who would have had a very easy time passing nomination by comparison?
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

    Only the purest person that passes your litmus test should be on the supreme court and if its anyone else we should abolish the USA and start over. Good call.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  10. #38
    I didn't get a chance to watch all the hearings so I missed this and perhaps others did too. I would think this is the reason that Rand changed his mins about Kavanaugh regarding the 4th amendment. Because it appears Kavanaugh had a change of mind.....

    In this, my final post on Judge Kavanaugh's testimony, I focus on one issue that may prove the most important: his views on the Fourth Amendment. Having written an opinion suggesting that bulk data collection was constitutional, he insisted that the Carpenter case involving cell phone tower data was a "game changer." [My comment is in brackets.]

    Day 3, Part III (2:01:07 – in response to Senator Pat Leahy on Kavanaugh's former opinion okaying the dragnet of phone recordings by the NSA, justifying it as a means to prevent terrorism):

    The important I would say is I was trying to articulate what I thought was based on precedent at the time. At that time, when your information went to a third party, and the government obtained that information from the third party, the existing Supreme Court precedent was that your privacy interest was essentially zero. The opinion for the Supreme Court by Chief Justice Roberts this past spring, in the Carpenter case, is a game changer. And that's important. I talked repeatedly in this hearing about how technology will be one of the huge issues with the Fourth Amendment going forward. And you see Chief Justice Roberts' majority opinion in Carpenter that alters and really is a game changer from the precedent on which I was writing at that time.

    [The claim that Carpenter was a game changer undermining the constitutionality of bulk data collection was made by Sharon Bradford Franklin in here article, Carpenter and the End of Bulk Surveillance of Americans, which is worth reading in its entirety. Franklin contends that:

    Under Carpenter, the third-party doctrine does not extend to the type of collection conducted under the former Section 215 program, and that program would violate the Fourth Amendment. The bulk collection of call detail records, which show over time who calls whom and when, exposing intimate personal details and patterns of association, creates the same privacy risks as the cell site location information that is protected by the Fourth Amendment under Carpenter.

    If this is what Judge Kavanaugh has in mind by "game changer," then this is potentially big.--REB]

    Leahy then asks: "In light of Carpenter, do you believe that there is ever a situation where computing/tracking power becomes so pervasive that a warrant would be required?"

    Two points. I also went on in [Jones] to say the attachment of the GPS device on the car was an invasion of the property right and that independently would be a Fourth Amendment problem. When the case went to the Supreme Court, the majority opinion for the Supreme Court followed that approach that I had articulated in saying that it was a violation of the Fourth Amendment. So, the approach I had articulated there formed the basis of saying it was actually unconstitutional to install the device. I relied on that in the Silverman decision from 1961 and Justice Brennan's concurring opinion in the Knotts case in the 1970s. On your other point on technology and the phone that you held up, I do think the Supreme Court case law in the Riley case written by Chief Justice Roberts, and the Carpenter case, both majority opinions, both show his and the Court's recognition of the issue that you're describing, in that technology—it's made things different. And we need to understand those differences for purposes of applying Fourth Amendment law now. And I do think those two decisions are quite important as we move forward. And I think someone sitting in this chair ten years from now—I think that the question of technology on Fourth Amendment, First Amendment, war powers is going to be of central importance. […] I think Supreme Court case law is developing in a way consistent with your concern.
    https://reason.com/volokh/2018/09/15...-on-the-fourth

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Because he is weak and didn't want to take the heat for standing on principle.
    The real question is:

    Did he shake the man's hand?

  12. #40
    Kavanaugh is an improvement over Kennedy, Rand had no way to make Trump pick someone better, Trump very well might have picked someone worse if Kavanaugh failed and Rand kept his allies happy with him.

    It was the best outcome Rand could arrange.

    If Matt doesn't like Rand's tactics he should run for office and show him how to do things better.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ILUVRP View Post
    i would have voted for him if he would have passed a lie detector test , then we would have know who was telling the truth .

    i doubt if he would have passed , flake should have put that in his demands .
    Lie detectors are no better than flipping a coin.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I didn't get a chance to watch all the hearings so I missed this and perhaps others did too. I would think this is the reason that Rand changed his mins about Kavanaugh regarding the 4th amendment. Because it appears Kavanaugh had a change of mind.....



    https://reason.com/volokh/2018/09/15...-on-the-fourth
    Very nice points. Allow me to channel @Matt Collins with the following: orange man bad therefore Brett Kavanaugh bad, therefore Rand Paul and Mike Lee bad, Kavanaugh was just saying whatever senators wanted so he would be confirmed, there is no way to hold him accountable to these words on the 4th amendment blah blah blah etc. etc.
    Last edited by spudea; 10-07-2018 at 04:43 PM.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  16. #43
    I'm still standing with Rand.

    I reckoned Roberts was gonna be awesome and then he let Obamacare go forward to my forever dismay.

    This guy is about as good as I could expect given where we are.
    The bigger government gets, the smaller I wish it was.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I didn't get a chance to watch all the hearings so I missed this and perhaps others did too. I would think this is the reason that Rand changed his mins about Kavanaugh regarding the 4th amendment. Because it appears Kavanaugh had a change of mind.....



    https://reason.com/volokh/2018/09/15...-on-the-fourth
    With the 99% circus over this nomination, this article was an odd gem discussing actual policy. Thanks.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman

    Only the purest person that passes your litmus test should be on the supreme court and if its anyone else we should abolish the USA and start over. Good call.
    Incorrect. I am not looking for perfection. But someone who is appointed to the SCOTUS should at least follow the Constitution which Kavanaugh has demonstrated many times he is unwilling to do.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Kavanaugh is an improvement over Kennedy, Rand had no way to make Trump pick someone better,
    Wrong. With margins so thin it is possible Rand could have gone to Trump early and said "here is a list of people I won't vote for" and Trump would have had to have given at least a bit of attention to it.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Wrong. With margins so thin it is possible Rand could have gone to Trump early and said "here is a list of people I won't vote for" and Trump would have had to have given at least a bit of attention to it.
    How do you know he didn't?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    So political expediency is more important than upholding the Constitution?
    If Rand can build a political coalition to restore the fourth amendment that is already gone then maybe we can talk about the constituion. Rand tried to oppose Trump during the 2016 election and the media and Trump $#@! on him and no one even spoke up to defend him. Trump threatened to run a counter campaign to his 2016 re-election so he wouldn't even have a seat at the table.

    So while Rand hasn't moved the earth yet he has advanced healthcare buying groups and legalizing better treatment options for opioid addiction. He has advanced the ideas of a non interventionist foreign policy just by speaking out and saying that Trump should keep his word and have the foreign policy that he ran on, friendly fire is only allowed when you are not political opposition otherwise the Trump supporters would of attacked Rand Paul for it and went more in the direction of the John Bolton than Rand Paul.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    ...Or because he didn't want to obliterate any political capital he might have had with the other Republicans in the Senate and the President himself. Going to the mat against Kavanaugh would be a bad strategic move.
    I don't consider crossing party lines and then getting the sum of national attention to talk about the 4th amendment to be a bad deal at all.
    Just more proof that the accumulation of political capital is its own end with you people.
    Collect all the capital you want... if you never spend it, and pretend like the best possible times to do so aren't the right times, then some of us don't give a flying $#@! how much political capital anyone has.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    I don't consider crossing party lines and then getting the sum of national attention to talk about the 4th amendment to be a bad deal at all.
    Just more proof that the accumulation of political capital is its own end with you people.
    Collect all the capital you want... if you never spend it, and pretend like the best possible times to do so aren't the right times, then some of us don't give a flying $#@! how much political capital anyone has.
    This was not the best possible time to spend it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Incorrect. I am not looking for perfection. But someone who is appointed to the SCOTUS should at least follow the Constitution which Kavanaugh has demonstrated many times he is unwilling to do.
    Matt is correct. Kavanaugh might have gotten good grades at Yale, but he only was a law clerk
    before he was tapped for the federal judge position by the "W" and if he has selective memory
    gaps or even a lack of basic knowledge, he is in an Olympian realm where he is disaster prone.

  26. #52
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #53
    Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) faced a torrent of death threats and abuse on Twitter following her declaration that she would vote to confirm Judge Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court, and her remarks in defense of the presumption of innocence. So far, Twitter has taken no action, allowing the threats against a sitting Senator to remain on the platform.

    Multiple Twitter users said they wished to “punch” Sen. Collins.
    I want to punch @SenatorCollins in the face. #SenateIntelHearings #ComeyTestimony #ComeyHearing #ComeyDay #Comey
    — Liberal O'Leprechaun (@millerjr99) June 8, 2017
    Am I the only one who wants to punch @SenatorCollins in the face right now? She sounds SO condescending!!! #voteherout
    — KMO (@kitkatesq) October 5, 2018
    I am also. I want to punch Collins
    — Terri Hayes (@southNC) October 6, 2018
    At least one tweeter called for her death.
    I hope someone kills you.
    — Lawrence Farmer (@BigMikeFarmer) October 6, 2018
    Another told the Senator to kill herself.
    @SenatorCollins your are a traitor and a p.o.s. You have sold out every women in the country. If only you were capable of shame maybe you would kill your horrible self. You don't deserve to call yourself a representative of anyone. Shame on you
    — Austin Caylor (@Austioferocious) October 5, 2018
    Others simply bombarded Sen. Collins with abuse.
    I won't mourn your death.
    — Vincent Adultman (@wool_potatoes) October 5, 2018
    If @StephenKing wouldn’t mind, it would make me feel a little better if he’d write a novella where @SenatorCollins dies a long slow horrible death.
    Maybe there can be beer. Or prep school boys. #VoteHerOut
    — Bronwyn Joye (@BronwynJoye) October 6, 2018
    .@SenatorCollins hand in ur vagina. U rnot welcomed member of female gender.
    — Cydney.d (@dCydney) October 6, 2018
    Smelly, smelly GOP $#@!
    — Shelly (@shmadge) October 6, 2018
    @SenatorCollins is a feckless $#@! who has determined her legacy as a supporter of sexual predators and voted her party of hate over truth and justice. May she rot in hell
    — Harlan (@HarlanDG) October 6, 2018
    filthy bought $#@! bitch.
    — JSE (@JSException) October 6, 2018
    Relinquish your vagina. Bitch.
    — Donna Rogers (@DonnaRo29566978) October 6, 2018

    More at: https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/...-does-nothing/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #54
    NEWS FLASH:
    White Knightism doesn't get you laid.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Hopefully Kavanaugh changed his stance on the 4th amendment after all the crap he just went through but I doubt it.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    NEWS FLASH:
    White Knightism doesn't get you laid.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    If Rand can build a political coalition to restore the fourth amendment that is already gone then maybe we can talk about the constituion. Rand tried to oppose Trump during the 2016 election and the media and Trump $#@! on him and no one even spoke up to defend him. Trump threatened to run a counter campaign to his 2016 re-election so he wouldn't even have a seat at the table.
    You don't want a seat at the table, you want to dominate the political environment.

    And what you are advocating is "I must abandon the free market in order to save it"
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  33. #58
    I have to agree with Kavanaugh.
    In essence he is defending this position:
    'We the People' are a National Security Risk.
    I hope to God we are... more than ever. and growing.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    This was not the best possible time to spend it.
    Indeed. Suppose the democrats had managed to drag this out past election day, retaken a majority (I don't think it's likely, but . . ), and put someone in place of Kavanaugh who was 10x worse. And Rand Paul was a deciding vote in a 50/50 split.

    If only we could do more to support our few liberty candidates in D.C. other than setting up swords for them to fall on.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    You don't want a seat at the table, you want to dominate the political environment.

    And what you are advocating is "I must abandon the free market in order to save it"
    That's a false equivalence. What I was advocating for is for the liberty movement to make the fourth amendment part of the Republican platform but we didn't win that argument but the argument isn't over Rand is still advocating for this change but he is not going to kamikaze his political career in order to make arguments that fall on deaf ears, Rand can't convince people we need the fourth amendment by himself and people won't take him seriously and won't trust him if people who claim to support him don't take him seriously and claim he sold out and isn't doing the right things.

    I would say you are advocating for Rand to become the sole political opposition to this police state takeover when his own political party doesn't agree with him so they won't support it. Rand has been the number one defender of the fourth amendment. When they polled the Republican party on this issue in 2016 we were in the minority. This happened during the debates when he had that back and fourth moment with Chris Christie.

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