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Thread: Psst, President Trump! The Chinese aren’t paying for the tariffs you’re imposing. We are.

  1. #1

    Psst, President Trump! The Chinese aren’t paying for the tariffs you’re imposing. We are.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...924-story.html

    President Donald Trump announced Monday that he’s slapping a 10 percent tariff on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods, on top of similar tariffs imposed earlier this year on $50 billion worth of Chinese imports. Once the new tariffs are in place, Trump’s levies will apply to almost half the value of the products we buy from China.

    Too bad the president doesn’t seem to understand who will pay these tariffs.

    At an event earlier that day, Trump talked about the trade negotiations with Mexico and Canada, then said, “China is now paying us billions of dollars in tariffs, and hopefully we’ll be able to work something out.” That’s exactly backward. The tariffs Trump imposed on Chinese goods are paid by the businesses and consumers in this country that buy them.

    In other words, the tariffs are a tax on our people, not theirs. The pain ultimately is borne by U.S. consumers, as businesses pass along the tariffs they pay on the Chinese components and metals they buy. Alternatively, when businesses shift to higher-priced U.S.-made components and metals to avoid the tariffs, their costs go up, and their prices follow.

    The New York Times offered a few examples: “Steel prices are up more than 10 percent since February, the month before Mr. Trump announced his long-awaited tariffs of 25 percent on steel and 10 percent on aluminum, from a wide swath of trading partners. Prices on washing machines jumped 20 percent in the months following Mr. Trump’s decision to impose tariffs on imported washers.”

    The cost of goods in general is increasing slowly, but tariffs probably aren’t a factor because they apply to a very small slice of the economy. That could change, though, if Trump follows through on the two threats he added to the announcement of the $200 billion in new tariffs. First, the tariffs will go up from 10 percent to 25 percent on Jan. 1 — a clear effort to force China to the negotiating table. And second, Trump said he’ll hit the rest of China’s exports to the United States — about $267 billion worth of goods — “if China takes retaliatory action against our farmers or other industries.”

    Trump sees this as a contest he can’t lose, given how much more Americans import from China than the Chinese import from us. To many economists, this trade imbalance is a sign of the United States’ low savings rate, the confidence and capability of U.S. buyers, and other factors that aren’t necessarily negative. To Trump, it’s a sign that China is defeating us in the competition for manufacturing jobs.

    Referring to last year’s $375 billion trade deficit with China, Trump said, “We’re not going to lose that. We can’t do that. We can’t do that anymore. It should have been done many years ago. It should have been done by other presidents. And actually, it’s a disgrace that it wasn’t done.”

    The president is counting on China to cave in the face of the ever-widening penalties on Chinese exports. That hasn't happened yet; instead, China has been content to impose retaliatory tariffs on U.S. exports, hurting sales and raising anxiety levels across many industries. In fact, groups representing thousands of businesses banded together this month to lobby harder against the levies.

    So, get ready for higher prices, consumers! Just in time for the holiday season.



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  3. #2
    If they lower their prices and/or their currency to compensate and keep the market share then they are paying the tariffs, if they don't then they lose all of the money and are incentivized to make a fair deal to end the tariffs.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If they lower their prices and/or their currency to compensate and keep the market share then they are paying the tariffs, if they don't then they lose all of the money and are incentivized to make a fair deal to end the tariffs.
    If you believe that than I believe Unicorns $#@! rainbows. If they wanted American businesses to compete better we would have much lower taxes and intervention in our industries. Even in your $#@!ty optimistic scenario we are the ones who are shoveling more money into the military, we are the ones $#@!ting on our industries with more intervention in order to protect them. You wanna know why we don't make $#@! and our companies fled the country? We destroy companies like Microsoft by splitting them up for being monopolies.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    If you believe that than I believe Unicorns $#@! rainbows. If they wanted American businesses to compete better we would have much lower taxes and intervention in our industries. Even in your $#@!ty optimistic scenario we are the ones who are shoveling more money into the military, we are the ones $#@!ting on our industries with more intervention in order to protect them. You wanna know why we don't make $#@! and our companies fled the country? We destroy companies like Microsoft by splitting them up for being monopolies.
    Trump is lowering taxes and regulations as much as he can and hopefully he will be able to cut them more and cut spending if he gets a more cooperative Congress after the midterms.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump is lowering taxes and regulations as much as he can and hopefully he will be able to cut them more and cut spending if he gets a more cooperative Congress after the midterms.
    Taxes and regulations are Congresses jobs.

    hopefully he will be able to cut them more and cut spending if he gets a more cooperative Congress after the midterms
    His party controls both houses of Congress right now. And there is a big risk they won't after the midterms. Trump's own budget proposal called for higher overall spending (presidents can propose spending and taxes but it is up to Congress to write the laws which enable the spending and taxes). https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...h-more-red-ink

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Taxes and regulations are Congresses jobs.



    His party controls both houses of Congress right now. And there is a big risk they won't after the midterms. Trump's own budget proposal called for higher overall spending (presidents can propose spending and taxes but it is up to Congress to write the laws which enable the spending and taxes). https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...h-more-red-ink
    RINOs and NeverTrumpers are no help.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    RINOs and NeverTrumpers are no help.
    "It is all because of Trump!"

    "It is not Trump's fault! It is the RINOs!"

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    RINOs and NeverTrumpers are no help.
    China's rise in the world is just our own undoing, that's what I hate about Trumps trade policy, he blames the symptoms and not the congress, not the spending, the budget, the taxers, the regulators, the rapers. SOMEONE IS DOING THE RAPING DON.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    "It is all because of Trump!"

    "It is not Trump's fault! It is the RINOs!"
    Any progress has come from Trump.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Any progress has come from Trump.
    What progress has there been on trade? Oh yeah, tariffs are higher around the world since he took office and the trade deficit still rising. Talks with China called off. EU and NAFTA talks going nowhere. We will have a new NAFTA deal in 2017. Or by August 2018. Or sometime. Maybe. Winning!

    NAFTA: https://www.forbes.com/sites/phillev.../#75fb80ce4e21

    The Trump administration, after initially negotiating with both countries, had decided to hold talks with just Mexico and only bring Canada back to the table in late August, after a bilateral agreement had been reached. Presumably, the goal was to present the Canadians with a fait accompliand pressure them into quick acceptance. If so, it didn’t work.

    The first missed deadline came at the very end of August. It stemmed from a combination of a U.S. Trade Promotion Authority (TPA) requirement to give 90 days notice before signing an agreement and the upcoming December 1st presidential transition in Mexico. As it happened, the deadline was missed when the United States and Canada could not reach even a vague agreement in principle. The Trump administration notified Congress of only the Mexican deal.

    That notification set another clock ticking. In theory, under the TPA law, a notified agreement is supposed to be sufficiently specific to allow outside review groups to start analyzing the deal and allow government lawyers to turn broad notions into specific legal text. TPA allows 30 days for this exercise.
    Attention turned to a new deadline. Assuming a last-minute Canadian deal, how quickly could sleepless lawyers turn it into an actual legal text to present to the U.S. Congress? The deadline for presentation is September 30. Mexican Economy Secretary Ildefonso Guajardo suggested that negotiators would need perhaps as little as 10 days for to sort out legalities once there was an agreement in principle with Canada. That suggested a deadline of September 20, which just came and went. The evening of the 20th, Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland returned home to Canada and refused to even use the word “progress” in characterizing the latest round of talks.

    Lest this sound like a big deal, it really means that the odds of a revised NAFTA being implemented anytime soon just went from slim to slightly slimmer.
    Trump is the greatest negotiator in the world! He wrote the book!

    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-23-2018 at 03:30 PM.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What progress has there been on trade? Oh yeah, tariffs are higher around the world since he took office and the trade deficit still rising. Talks with China called off. EU and NAFTA talks going nowhere. We will have a new NAFTA deal in 2017. Or by August 2018. Or sometime. Maybe. Winning!

    NAFTA: https://www.forbes.com/sites/phillev.../#75fb80ce4e21
    If you had read the Art of the Deal, you would know the 11 steps to success:

    1. Think big
    2. Protect the downside and the upside will take care of itself
    3. Maximize your options
    4. Know your market
    5. Use your leverage
    6. Enhance your location
    7. Get the word out
    8. Fight back
    9. Deliver the goods
    10. Contain the costs
    11. Have fun

    We're at step 5, using our leverage. Next step is to enhance our location, possibly by conquering some/all of Mexico.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  14. #12

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    What progress has there been on trade? Oh yeah, tariffs are higher around the world since he took office and the trade deficit still rising. Talks with China called off. EU and NAFTA talks going nowhere. We will have a new NAFTA deal in 2017. Or by August 2018. Or sometime. Maybe. Winning!

    NAFTA: https://www.forbes.com/sites/phillev.../#75fb80ce4e21





    Trump is the greatest negotiator in the world! He wrote the book!

    Sometimes success takes time, especially when people run around the world telling everyone they will remove you from office soon, also we were talking about taxes and regulations.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Sometimes success takes time, especially when people run around the world telling everyone they will remove you from office soon, also we were talking about taxes and regulations.
    The thread is on tariffs. And it was Congress which wrote the law to reduce taxes.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    And it was Congress which wrote the law to reduce taxes.
    It was Trump who pushed for it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.



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  20. #17
    Higher prices mean people will tend to shop elsewhere or decide they don't really need a 70" TV.

    China loses money. China agrees to a new trade deal to stop the bleeding.

    America wins.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  21. #18
    In other words, the tariffs are a tax on our people, not theirs. The pain ultimately is borne by U.S. consumers...
    When are the government media organs going to start explaining that corporate income taxes do the exact same thing?

    A "two for one" reduction in corporate taxes combined with tariffs would be ideal.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    Higher prices mean people will tend to shop elsewhere or decide they don't really need a 70" TV.

    China loses money. China agrees to a new trade deal to stop the bleeding.

    America wins.
    So are we now officially in the "Less is more! High prices are good for you!" phase of the PR campaign?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    So are we now officially in the "Less is more! High prices are good for you!" phase of the PR campaign?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  24. #21
    China is a very old 5000 year old civilization. It will be tough to break them apart but the US will try with Uighur terrorism.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    So are we now officially in the "Less is more! High prices are good for you!" phase of the PR campaign?
    You might want to do some research before you embarrass yourself again.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    When are the government media organs going to start explaining that corporate income taxes do the exact same thing?

    A "two for one" reduction in corporate taxes combined with tariffs would be ideal.
    Especially with the MIC.

    As Ron Paul said, 'foreign aid' is simply taking money from poor people in one country and giving it to the rich people in another country.

    For example, people pay taxes to the government, the government uses that to send 'aid' to another country, with the condition that the aid-receiving country spend that 'aid' on US military supplies. 'Foreign aid', ie taxpayers money goes back to the MIC.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    Higher prices mean people will tend to shop elsewhere or decide they don't really need a 70" TV.

    China loses money. China agrees to a new trade deal to stop the bleeding.

    America wins.
    So the guy selling TVs goes out of business and lays off his employees who can't shop at the local store anymore because they aren't making any money so those stores cut back on their labor. MAGA!



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